Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: WHY NORTHERN NIGERIAN MUSLIMS SHOULD NOT DEMONSTRATE AGAINST ANTI-MUHAMMED FILM "INNOCENCE OF MUSLIMS"

dear all,
this answer of cornelius is worthy of al-hallaj whose famous line, my
favorite,is ana al-haq, i am the truth.
like the line in our jewish shabbat prayer, ani adonei elochehum, i am
the lord our god; the mystic's identification with the spiritual, that
is what i get from cornelius's wonderful line below,

I have met the prophet of Islam, Rasulullah, Muhammad Ibn
Abdallah,salallahu alaihi wa salaam. Have you ?

what cornelius (and i) want to insist upon is that islam is not all
encompassed in the image of jihadi killings, but of a spiritualism that
is ethereal, a tradition of writings and authors and nabi, whose works
and words soar. every religion has its lowest element, and i can't
understand why we humans have to be so intolerant of others as to want
to impose our views by force.
but old bones can remember the words of yeats i quoted earlier about the
golden bird that sings, which we want so much to be heard.
for me, attar's Conference of Birds is one of those places to go to hear
that bird
thanks cornelius
ken



On 9/13/12 9:28 AM, Cornelius Hamelberg wrote:
> Oluwatoyin Adepoju,
>
> This is embarrassing.
>
> This is what I said: "There are many, many outstanding books covering
> that area of ignorance
> that I could supply you with, on request..." That was an honourable
> Yoruba man talking after studying Islam for eight years. You have not
> made such a request - and as for me, following the advice of Idries
> Shah, I resist the urge to teach.
>
> Who told you that I can't quote "them" from memory?
> I can quote all of them from memory and these are not secret pages or
> secret books, some of the authors of their pages are personal friends
> of mine, people I meet , have met, communicate with, if need be. If
> you too search the subject matter we are discussing then you should
> find them, since some of them are public figures AND famous. Seyyed
> Hossein Nasr for example is reasonably well known, isn't he? Isn't
> AbdolKarim Soroush?
>
> The only thing is that I do not want to start puffing myself up
> against an amateur or poseur who wants to represent Islam, negatively.
> The enemies of Islam would like to destroy that religion, by trying to
> undermine the integrity of that great religion, but they won't
> succeed. As for that other bigoted idiot Rev. Jones, he can go and rot
> as well and wait to see if he resurrects or not...
>
> Yes Sir, donkeys can carry whole libraries on their backs and even
> monkeys can be taught to read – so is it merely a matter of reading?
> The first word in the Quranic revelation is IQRA which means READ, and
> reading is an early stage of the journey when you set out to cultivate
> your heart in the evolution from animal to - since mention Rumi – to
>
> "For the next time I shall die
> Bring forth wings and feathers like angels
> After that soaring higher than angels
> What you cannot imagine I shall be that."
>
> The first thing that you have to understand is that a Muslim is not a
> real Muslim if that Muslim does not love, honour, respect and venerate
> the prophet of Islam, salallahu alaihi wa salaam.
>
> I have met the prophet of Islam, Rasulullah, Muhammad Ibn
> Abdallah,salallahu alaihi wa salaam. Have you ? No I guess that you
> have only read about him ( Like Dylan singing,
>
> "You ever seen a ghost? No
> But you have heard of them"
>
> The film in question which smears the reputation of the Prophet of
> Islam and that Channel 4 attempt which wants to cast doubt on the
> history of early Islam and therefore to negate the hadiths, these are
> all calculated to provoke Muslims worldwide - into the kinds of
> reactions that you have been watching on TV and reading about in the
> media.
>
> I am not here to teach anyone (I'm still teaching myself) - and much
> of the travelling that a salik does is not from page one to the end of
> the kinds of books that I have read in their hundreds.
>
> You know that first meeting between Rumi and Shams of Tabriz
>
> "After greetings, he asked Rumi pointing to the books (manuscripts)
> what was it. Rumi answered interrogatively ' what would you know ? '
> The visitor reached for the the pile of books and threw them in the
> water. These were Rumi's hand written manuscripts and he was greatly
> upset by the unexpected rage of the unknown man. Shams bent down to
> the water, restoring the pile of books with no sign of water on them.
> A bewildered Rumi managed to ask, " what was it ? " and Shams answered
> him back in Runi's own words, " What would you know " and left. "
>
> http://shamsitabriz.net/shamsitabriz.html
>
> Now there you go talking about " famous" books and I suppose that you
> have thoroughly studied the Quran and are personally familiar with its
> outer and inner meanings – or the famous books that you have read
> about Tibetan Buddhism, Kashmir Shaivism or Sufism are your main claim
> to knowledge about all the esoteric matters that you write about so
> profusely?
>
> My friend Parvez Manzoor who speaks the same language as you, has
> taken up some of these malicious, anti-Islam issues in his website ,
> here:
>
> http://www.algonet.se/~pmanzoor/Index1.html
>
>
> PS. If you insist I could furnish you with a list of at lesat 20 books
> countering the anti Islam thrusts....the miracle could take a little
> longer.....
>
>
>
>
>
> On 13 Sep, 09:20, OLUWATOYIN ADEPOJU <toyinvincentadep...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> Corneluis,
>>
>> Without endorsing the recent career choice of the person I quote, I respond
>> to you beginning with an expression attributed to the Nigerian journalist
>> Reuben Abati by his students when he was a youth corper at the University
>> of Benin:
>>
>> "We are not here to carry dead wood"
>>
>> If these examples you have in mind are so famous, why cant you quote them
>> from memory?
>>
>> Why must you come back later?
>>
>> On the contrary, the recent works critical of Islam are like a brilliant
>> necklace in global public memory. I composed that list of possible creative
>> Muslim response to criticism based on the well known list in recent years
>> of works critical of Islam
>>
>> The idea of a* famous book *by Muslims challenging critics of Muhammad or
>> Islam is composed in response to Salman Rushdies Satanic Verses on account
>> of which so many died in relation to Muslim protests or outright massacres
>> or assassinations by Muslims.
>>
>> The idea of a famous film *by Muslims challenging critics of Muhammad or
>> Islam composed in response to Innocence of Muslims, the film for which
>> Islamists killed the US embassy staff and Submissions, for which latter a
>> Muslim killed the film maker.
>>
>> The idea of a* famous cartoon series or comic book *challenging critics
>> of Muhammad or Islam is composed in relation to the Danish anti-Muhammed
>> cartoons on account of which so many died at the hands of Muslims,
>> including in such distant places from Denmark as Nigeria.
>>
>> The idea of a*famous Facebook page* challenging critics of Muhammad or
>> Islam" is composed in response to the fact that Facebook is central to
>> the current global currency of information dissemination.
>>
>> We are not referring to the world of Uthman Dan Fodio.
>>
>> You might have done better to refer to the poetry of Jalal Ud Din Rumi
>> which sells very well to non-Muslims and the work of Ibn Arabi, who has an
>> intercontinental reputation.
>>
>> Muslims need to hold up as examples great figures like this, who spoke of
>> themselves thus ' My heart has become a temple for Muslims and pagans...'
>>
>> thanks
>>
>> toyin
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 12:14 AM, Cornelius Hamelberg <
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> corneliushamelb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> "I am yet to learn of:
>>> A* famous book *by Muslims challenging critics of Muhammad or Islam.
>>> A* famous film *by Muslims challenging critics of Muhammad or Islam.
>>> A* famous cartoon series or comic book *challenging critics of
>>> Muhammad or
>>> Islam.
>>> A *famous Facebook page* challenging critics of Muhammad or Islam."
>>> There are many, many outstanding books covering that area of ignorance
>>> and I could suppply you on request, a very fundamental list of such
>>> formidable literature, in print, beginning with some stuff by the late
>>> great Usman Dan Fodio, your countryman....
>>> On Sep 12, 11:54 pm, OLUWATOYIN ADEPOJU
>>> <toyinvincentadep...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> *
>>>> WHY NORTHERN NIGERIAN MUSLIMS SHOULD NOT DEMONSTRATE AGAINST THE
>>>> ANTI-MUHAMMED FILM "INNOCENCE OF MUSLIMS" *
>>>> Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju
>>>> I suggest Muslims need to emphasize the transcendence of Allah, rather
>>>> than struggle to defend the creator of the universe by killing other
>>>> people, a move that reinforces a widespread view of their religion as
>>>> barbaric.
>>>> Islam means 'submission to Allah'. Allah is understood as the creator of
>>>> the universe. In its ideal sense, Islam is not a force that needs
>>> defense
>>>> by killing people who see it differently from many Muslims or who
>>>> criticize it.
>>>> Does the Creator need people to be killed to defend Him or His message?
>>>> Does He need such defense? If His message cannot withstand criticism,
>>> then
>>>> what is the point of a message from the Creator of the Universe, the One
>>>> Without Beginning or End?
>>>> If a film is made criticizing Muhammad and Islam, make your own film to
>>>> counter that one.
>>>> If a book is written criticizing Muhammad and Islam, write your own book
>>>> countering that one.
>>>> There are many rich Muslims.
>>>> They can sponsor such activities.
>>>> There are many Muslim scholars and intellectuals.
>>>> I am yet to learn of:
>>>> A* famous book *by Muslims challenging critics of Muhammad or Islam.
>>>> A* famous film *by Muslims challenging critics of Muhammad or Islam.
>>>> A* famous cartoon series or comic book *challenging critics of Muhammad
>>> or
>>>> Islam.
>>>> A *famous Facebook page* challenging critics of Muhammad or Islam.
>>>> All I read is that Muslims are killing people for challenging Muhammad
>>> and
>>>> Islam.
>>>> The more they kill, the more these challenges will emerge because such
>>>> barbaric behavior suggests the critics are right,and those critics will
>>>> therefore be further emboldened.
>>>> Some Nigerian Muslims are calling for demonstrations to protest the film.
>>>> What will that achieve?
>>>> People have already been killed by Islamists in the name of this
>>> protest.
>>>> Even killing people with no connection to the film. Islam's name has
>>> been
>>>> further sullied, its reputation further denigrated in protesting against
>>> a
>>>> film about Islam.
>>>> The world knows of this and is digesting it.
>>>> Keeping in mind that such demonstrations in the North, often if not
>>>> always, lead to killings of Christians and Southerners in the North and
>>>> the bombing of churches, I urge that such demonstrations should not take
>>>> place.
>>>> The North has suffered more than enough and Northern Muslims are bearing
>>>> the collateral damage of having the same religion as the Islamic
>>> terrorist
>>>> group Boko Haram that says it is defending Muslims.
>>>> It would be more helpful if Muslims were to launch a campaign of
>>>> education about Islam, challenging the views of Muhammad in the film.
>>>> It would impress people more if Nigerian Muslims gave a global press
>>>> conference reading out a refutation of the film by Islamic thinkers.
>>> While
>>>> this is done and after, Muslim leaders should urge peace to their
>>> followers
>>>> and the need to project Islam as a faith meant to show human beings a way
>>>> superior to limited human thinking and living, not one where killing of
>>>> people is the image in terms of which the religion is now known to many
>>> all
>>>> over the world, while security is stepped up all over the North,
>>>> particularly around churches and Christian communities, without
>>> impinging
>>>> on people's rights.
>>>> We are used to such activities as the called for demonstrations. While
>>> they
>>>> take place, everyone, particularly Christians, and other observers will
>>>> have their hearts in their mouths, waiting to see if, as usual, any bad
>>>> news will come out of the demonstrations.
>>>> I suggest Muslims in general and Nigerian Muslims in particular
>>> change
>>>> their strategy from protests demonstrations and killing people in defense
>>>> of Islam to educating people about their understanding of Islam.
>>>> Also posted on
>>>> Blogger : Exploring
>>>> Islam<
>>> http://islamexplorations.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/why-northern-nigerian...>
>>>> Facebook<
>>> https://www.facebook.com/notes/oluwatoyin-vincent-adepoju/why-norther...>
>>>> Scribd
>>>> <http://www.scribd.com/doc/105750212/Why-Northern-Nigerian-Muslims-Sho..
>>> .>
>>>> WHY NORTHERN NIGERIAN MUSLIMS SHOULD NOT DEMONSTRATE AGAINST
>>> ANTI-MUHAMMED FILM "INNOCENCE OF MUSLIMS" .doc
>>>> 37KViewDownload
>>>> WHY NORTHERN NIGERIAN MUSLIMS SHOULD NOT DEMONSTRATE AGAINST
>>> ANTI-MUHAMMED FILM _INNOCENCE OF MUSLIMS_ .pdf
>>>> 55KViewDownload
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--
kenneth w. harrow
distinguished professor of english
michigan state university
department of english
619 red cedar road
room C-614 wells hall
east lansing, mi 48824
ph. 517 803 8839
harrow@msu.edu

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