Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: WHY NORTHERN NIGERIAN MUSLIMS SHOULD NOT DEMONSTRATE AGAINST ANTI-MUHAMMED FILM "INNOCENCE OF MUSLIMS"

little i (me) or capital I ( the surviving ego)
has not breathed "ana al-haq"
there was me and Muhammad

On Sep 14, 8:56 pm, kenneth harrow <har...@msu.edu> wrote:
> dear all,
> this answer of cornelius is worthy of al-hallaj whose famous line, my
> favorite,is  ana al-haq, i am the truth.
> like the line in our jewish shabbat prayer, ani adonei elochehum, i am
> the lord our god; the mystic's identification with the spiritual, that
> is what i get from cornelius's wonderful line below,
>
> I have met the prophet of Islam, Rasulullah, Muhammad Ibn
> Abdallah,salallahu alaihi wa salaam. Have you ?
>
> what cornelius (and i) want to insist upon is that islam is not all
> encompassed in the image of jihadi killings, but of a spiritualism that
> is ethereal, a tradition of writings and authors and nabi, whose works
> and words soar. every religion has its lowest element, and i can't
> understand why we humans have to be so intolerant of others as to want
> to impose our views by force.
> but old bones can remember the words of yeats i quoted earlier about the
> golden bird that sings, which we want so much to be heard.
> for me, attar's Conference of Birds is one of those places to go to hear
> that bird
> thanks cornelius
> ken
>
> On 9/13/12 9:28 AM, Cornelius Hamelberg wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Oluwatoyin Adepoju,
>
> > This is embarrassing.
>
> > This is what I said: There are many, many outstanding books covering
> > that area of ignorance
> > that I could supply you with, on request... That was an honourable
> > Yoruba man talking after studying Islam for eight years. You have not
> > made such a request  - and as for me, following the advice of Idries
> > Shah, I resist the urge to teach.
>
> > Who told you that I can't quote them from memory?
> > I can quote all of them from memory and these are not secret pages or
> > secret books, some of the authors of their pages are personal friends
> > of mine, people I meet , have met, communicate with, if need be. If
> > you too search the subject matter we are discussing then you should
> > find them, since some of them are public figures AND famous. Seyyed
> > Hossein Nasr for example is reasonably well known, isn't he? Isn't
> > AbdolKarim Soroush?
>
> > The only thing is that I do not want to start puffing myself up
> > against an amateur or poseur who wants to represent Islam, negatively.
> > The enemies of Islam would like to destroy that religion, by trying to
> > undermine the integrity of that great religion, but they won't
> > succeed. As for that other bigoted idiot Rev. Jones, he can go and rot
> > as well and wait to see if he resurrects or not...
>
> > Yes Sir, donkeys can carry whole libraries on their backs and even
> > monkeys can be taught to read so is it merely a matter of reading?
> > The first word in the Quranic revelation is IQRA which means READ, and
> > reading is an early stage of the journey when you set out to cultivate
> > your heart in the evolution from animal to  - since mention Rumi to
>
> > For the next time I shall die
> > Bring forth wings and feathers like angels
> > After that soaring higher than angels
> > What you cannot imagine I shall be that.
>
> > The first thing that you have to understand is that a Muslim is not a
> > real Muslim if that Muslim does not love, honour, respect and venerate
> > the prophet of Islam, salallahu alaihi wa salaam.
>
> > I have met the prophet of Islam, Rasulullah, Muhammad Ibn
> > Abdallah,salallahu alaihi wa salaam. Have you ? No I guess that you
> > have only read about him ( Like Dylan singing,
>
> > You ever seen a ghost? No
> > But you have heard of them
>
> > The film in question which smears the reputation of the Prophet of
> > Islam and that Channel 4 attempt which wants to cast doubt on the
> > history of early Islam and therefore to negate the hadiths, these are
> > all calculated to provoke Muslims worldwide  - into the kinds of
> > reactions that you have been watching on TV and reading about in the
> > media.
>
> > I am not here to teach anyone (I'm still teaching myself)  - and much
> > of the travelling that a salik does is not from page one to the end of
> > the kinds of books that I have read in their hundreds.
>
> > You know that first meeting between Rumi  and Shams of Tabriz
>
> > After greetings, he asked Rumi pointing to the books (manuscripts)
> > what was it. Rumi answered interrogatively ' what would you know ? '
> > The visitor reached for the the pile of books and threw them in the
> > water. These were Rumi's hand written manuscripts and he was greatly
> > upset by the unexpected rage of the unknown man. Shams bent down to
> > the water, restoring the pile of books with no sign of water on them.
> > A bewildered Rumi managed to ask, " what was it ? " and Shams answered
> > him back in Runi's own words, " What would you know " and left.
>
> >http://shamsitabriz.net/shamsitabriz.html
>
> >   Now there you go talking about famous books and I suppose that you
> > have thoroughly studied the Quran and are personally familiar with its
> > outer and inner meanings or  the famous books that you have read
> > about Tibetan Buddhism, Kashmir Shaivism or Sufism are your main claim
> > to knowledge about all the esoteric matters that you write about so
> > profusely?
>
> > My friend Parvez Manzoor who speaks the same language as you, has
> > taken up some of these  malicious, anti-Islam  issues in his website ,
> > here:
>
> >http://www.algonet.se/~pmanzoor/Index1.html
>
> > PS. If you insist I could furnish you with a list of at lesat 20 books
> > countering the anti Islam thrusts....the miracle could take a little
> > longer.....
>
> > On 13 Sep, 09:20, OLUWATOYIN ADEPOJU <toyinvincentadep...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >> Corneluis,
>
> >> Without endorsing the recent career choice of the person I quote, I respond
> >> to you beginning with an expression attributed to the Nigerian journalist
> >>   Reuben Abati by his  students when he was a youth corper at the University
> >> of Benin:
>
> >> "We are not here to carry dead wood"
>
> >> If these examples you have  in mind are so famous, why cant you  quote them
> >> from memory?
>
> >> Why must you  come back later?
>
> >> On the contrary, the recent  works critical of Islam are like a brilliant
> >> necklace in global public memory. I composed that list of possible creative
> >> Muslim response to criticism based on the well known list in recent years
> >> of works critical of Islam
>
> >> The idea of a* famous book *by Muslims challenging critics of Muhammad or
> >> Islam is composed in response to Salman Rushdies Satanic Verses on account
> >> of which so many died in relation to Muslim protests or outright massacres
> >> or assassinations by Muslims.
>
> >> The idea of a famous film *by Muslims challenging  critics of Muhammad or
> >> Islam composed in response to Innocence of Muslims, the film for which
> >> Islamists killed the  US embassy staff and Submissions, for which latter a
> >> Muslim killed the film maker.
>
> >> The idea of a* famous cartoon series  or comic book *challenging critics
> >> of Muhammad or Islam is  composed in relation to the Danish anti-Muhammed
> >> cartoons on account of which so many died at  the hands of Muslims,
> >> including in such distant places from Denmark as Nigeria.
>
> >> The idea of a*famous Facebook page* challenging critics of Muhammad or
> >> Islam" is  composed in response to the fact that Facebook is central to
> >>   the current global currency of  information dissemination.
>
> >> We are not referring to the world of Uthman Dan Fodio.
>
> >> You might  have done better to refer to  the poetry of Jalal Ud Din Rumi
> >> which sells very well to non-Muslims and the work of Ibn Arabi, who has an
> >> intercontinental reputation.
>
> >> Muslims  need to hold up as examples great figures like this, who spoke of
> >> themselves thus  ' My heart has become a temple for Muslims and pagans...'
>
> >> thanks
>
> >> toyin
>
> >> On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 12:14 AM, Cornelius Hamelberg <
>
> >> corneliushamelb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> "I am yet to learn  of:
> >>> A* famous book *by Muslims challenging critics of Muhammad or Islam.
> >>> A* famous film *by Muslims challenging  critics of Muhammad or Islam.
> >>> A* famous cartoon series  or comic book *challenging critics of
> >>> Muhammad or
> >>> Islam.
> >>> A *famous Facebook page* challenging critics of Muhammad or Islam."
> >>> There are many, many outstanding books covering that area of ignorance
> >>> and I could suppply you on request, a very fundamental list of such
> >>> formidable literature, in print, beginning with some stuff by the late
> >>> great Usman Dan Fodio, your countryman....
> >>> On Sep 12, 11:54 pm, OLUWATOYIN ADEPOJU
> >>> <toyinvincentadep...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> *
> >>>> WHY NORTHERN NIGERIAN MUSLIMS SHOULD NOT DEMONSTRATE AGAINST THE
> >>>> ANTI-MUHAMMED FILM "INNOCENCE OF MUSLIMS" *
> >>>> Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju
> >>>> I suggest Muslims need to emphasize the transcendence of Allah,  rather
> >>>> than struggle to defend the creator of the universe by killing other
> >>>> people, a move that reinforces a widespread  view of their religion as
> >>>> barbaric.
> >>>> Islam means 'submission to Allah'. Allah is understood as the creator of
> >>>> the universe. In its ideal sense, Islam  is not a force that needs
> >>> defense
> >>>> by killing people who see it differently from many Muslims or who
> >>>> criticize  it.
> >>>> Does the Creator need people to be killed to defend Him or His message?
> >>>> Does He need such defense? If His message cannot withstand criticism,
> >>> then
> >>>> what is the point of a message from the Creator of the Universe, the One
> >>>> Without Beginning or End?
> >>>> If a film is made criticizing Muhammad and Islam, make your own film to
> >>>> counter that one.
> >>>> If a book is written criticizing Muhammad and Islam, write your own book
> >>>> countering that one.
> >>>> There are many rich Muslims.
> >>>> They can sponsor such activities.
> >>>> There are many Muslim scholars and intellectuals.
> >>>> I am yet to learn  of:
> >>>> A* famous book *by
>
> ...
>
> read more »

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