Re: FW: USA Africa Dialogue Series - "Obey The Prophet, Even If He Tells You To Kill" ( with reference to Boko Haram)

You must know these three things about an honourable Mandinka man: He
does not joke about his woman, his money and his meat.

A few months ago we were informed that the Mandinka King Mansa Musa
is the richest man that has ever lived and that he was a pious Muslim
- that when he went on pilgrimage to Mecca he took with him several
caravans loaded with gold, for Sadaka.

In some ways I suppose that he is regarded as a role model.

If you are familiar with the story of Sundiata (lots of sorcery
there) and after Sundiata you understand that the talismans and many
miracles credited to the Marabouts of the Mali, Sene-Gambia,Mauritania
area, serve to strengthen peoples faith in Islam, its Qutbs, Walis,
Charismatic sheikhs, saints, miracle men and of course in the unseen
and in the supernatural

As far as I know this friend - if I were a Mwalimu I'd say that he's
extremely intelligent - at least he followed the logic and reasons
advanced in al-Mujara'at and some of the books written by Muhammad al-
Tijani al-Samawi and arrived at his own conclusions – and he is
formidable in argument and debate. He is even cunning, shrewd. He is
certainly more rational than the Boko Harami people and I believe that
he would be a good president of any African country, if democratically
elected.

I suppose that he was – and still is – trying to impress me with what
he believes I will think is the strength of his faith and his
unflinching obedience to the Prophet of Islam (s.a.w). I could have
asked him - but that would have been exceedingly rude – I could have
asked him, " And what if the Prophet of Islam asked you to slaughter
your mother, your brothers and sisters, your wife your sons and
daughters?"

Of course he will respond: " But the prophet of Islam salallahu alaihi
wa salaam would not command me to do such evil acts.!"

Have you considered the faith of the suicide bomber ! For most people
destroying someone else is easier than self- destructing

Dr. Ogugua Anunoby, there are many Muslims who are waiting patiently
and would like to fulfil this hadith tomorrow, if possible, Allah
willing:

http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&sugexp=les%3B&gs_nf=3&gs_rn=0&gs_ri=hp&pq=hadith%20.%20jews%20will%20hide&cp=30&gs_id=1bj&xhr=t&q=Hadith%20.%20Jews%20will%20hide%20behind&pf=p&tbo=d&sclient=psy-ab&oq=Hadith+.+Jews+will+hide+behind&gs_l=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&bvm=bv.1355272958,d.bGE&fp=810ffe10e0d6b426&bpcl=39942515&biw=1024&bih=656


http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&tbo=d&spell=1&q=Hadith+.+Jews+will+hide+behind+a+certain+tree&sa=X&ei=0crIUIqrDoSE4gTZlYDgCA&ved=0CCsQvwUoAA&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&bvm=bv.1355272958,d.bGE&fp=810ffe10e0d6b426&bpcl=39942515&biw=1024&bih=656

My honourable Mandinka friend is very imaginative and has described
the reactions of three
possible scenarios that would signal my bitter end should I find
myself hiding behind a tree on such an inauspicious occasion: he says
that should it be our friend from Ghana (lets call him Ishak) , upon
finding me hiding behind a rock or a tree, before beheading me Ishak
would preach a long sermon starting with these words " As the prophet
of Islam told us " …..and ending with "and now the time has come!"

I tell my Honourable Mandinka friend that I'd tell Ishak to spare me
the sermon and just go ahead with the beheading.

Scenario 2: That our other friend ( Let's call him Umar ) would not be
pompous or delay the execution with much talk, but with a coup de
grâce I'd be gone to the everlasting bonfire.

Scenario 3: My honourable Mandinka friend says that should he be the
one who first discovers me hiding behind a tree or a rock - he would
give me temporary respite, deal with a few others hiding behind rocks
and trees before returning to me - if I was still there, for the
finale and goodbye.(like Hamlet dispatching Polonius to eternity with,
"thou wretched, rash intruding fool , farewell!"

I remember the day that Yitzak Rabin was assassinated. I didn't know
that it had happened , I was ill and laying in bed. The phone rang My
Better Half told me it was "Umar) I heard his voice ( his exact
words) "So they shot your friend"
Now we had a friend in common, that he didn't like so much , and he
used to describe him as "your friend",so I thought that that was the
guy who had been shot – and at the same time I was shocked that
"Umarr" could be breaking this news to me, apparently without feeling
any sorrow. So I asked him, " Is he alive?"

Then he told me " I'm talking about your friend Yitzak Rabin, mother
foeker..!"

A few seconds after that I was watching the pandemonium on CNN - I
thought that a Palestinian had done it - and that would have been the
end of any two state solution, in fact, the guys in Ramallah would
themselves voluntarily be moving to Jordan...

The story I've told is true.

http://www.thelocal.se/blogs/corneliushamelberg/









On Dec 12, 6:38 pm, "Anunoby, Ogugua" <Anuno...@lincolnu.edu> wrote:
> After reading that Hadith ( in a book entitled "Tablighi Jamaat Exposed<http://www.google.se/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CD...> "I asked my honourable Mandinka friend - a good friend the inevitable hypothetical question : "If the Prophet of Islam ordered you to kill me would you do so ?"
>
> He answered: Immediately! If Muhammad( s.a.w.) told me to kill you, I'd slaughter you immediately!"
>
> ch
>
> Scary. Very scary.
> Is the "Mandinka friend" above really a friend?  He/she is anything but.  The "Mandinka friend" seems to be a pitiable victim of severe successful indoctrination. His religious belief posture is seemingly  informed more by ignorance than faith. He epitomizes the many dangers of revealed religions that many attentive people have highlighted.
> Why would/should any person of sound mind in their right mind believe a fallible, imperfect, and manipulative cleric preaching evil, who claims that God speaks directly to them, or that they speak for God? The sooner more people realize that clerical appointments are at the end of the day, jobs that help to pay the bills, the sooner more clerics purveying evil, are not taken too seriously. Keeping a job sometimes requires the unscrupulous jobber to mislead their followers.
> Humankind has travelled long enough for faith to be increasingly punctuated by reason. History is profuse with records of the heavy toll of personal and group pain and suffering that blind faith has visited on the human race. Faith today, must be informed by reason if the gross mistakes of the past are not to be repeated.
> I remember being told as an undergraduate student by a university Dean that while I will pass through the university, it is less certain that that the university will pass through me. I was advised to allow the university to pass through me by listening, observing, reading, and thinking before making up my mind.   Sweden has clearly not passed through the "Mandinka friend". Sad is it not?
>
> oa
>
> From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com [mailto:usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Cornelius Hamelberg
> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 5:55 PM
> To: USAAfricaDialogue
> Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - "Obey The Prophet, Even If He Tells You To Kill" ( with reference to Boko Haram)
>
> "Obey The Prophet, Even If He Tells You To Kill"
>
> http://www.meforum.org/3394/qaradawi-murder
>
> https://www.google.se/search?q=%22Obey+The+Prophet%2C+Even+If+He+Tell...
>
> Qaradawi is familiar.
>
> Nothing dramatic about the headline or the injunction in itself, considering the popular saying that "Obedience is the first law in heaven." Nor should it be anything strange to observe a Muslim or Muslims apparently obeying the Prophet of Islam even if he tells him or her to kill, since Islam is all about obeying Allah & his Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w) - be that killing rational or irrational from the point of view of common human understanding.
>
> But are the Boko Haram people presently acting on the basis of what they believe to be a divine command - is that what they believe they are doing or have been doing - and will continue to do?
>
> Somehow, in reading through Raymond Ibrahim's article I thought of Oluwatoyin Adepoju transcendental pacifism and his suggestion that "Muslims need to emphasize the transcendence of Allah, rather than struggle to defend the creator of the universe by killing other people, a move that reinforces a widespread  view of their religion as barbaric" - and the trajectory of that thesis which he continues here:
>
> https://groups.google.com/group/usaafricadialogue/browse_thread/threa...
>
> And of course it's impossible to have transcendental pacifism in mind and not think of Boko Haram and their current killing spree - their senseless, indiscriminate and wanton killing of fellow Nigerians in the name of what? In the name of who? Why? What do they plan for the coming Christmas ? That people should be afraid to assemble in the churches up North - should be in mortal dread of fulfilling the the urge to gather since it is written in their scriptures , " For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them."? Should they lose confidence in those words, because of Boko Haram?
>
> For those interested in pursuing the matter may I recommend Kenneth Cragg's "Yours to command" I read a long essay form in a journal in our Royal Library here in Stockholm in 1987 - the year that witnessed the birth of HAMAS
>
> http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&tbo=d&output=search&sclient=psy-ab&q=Y...<http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&tbo=d&output=search&sclient=psy-ab&q=Y....>
>
> For the non-Muslim in particular I suggest Kenneth Cragg and not any of the numerous learned Sheikhs or any of the other Muslim Mwalimu, because the late Rev. Cragg offers the kind of philosophical scope and frames of reference that I'm sure would entrance or even charm Oluwtoyin Adepoju in particular.
>
> The 9th Hadith in this link illustrates the complexity in obeying the commandment to kill - in this case a fellow Muslim - or someone full of inordinate pride ( one of the sure signs of eternal damnation) but with all the externals of being a super Muslim. However, a commandment from the Prophet of Islam to a Mumin - remains that a commandment to someone who has dedicated his life to obeying Allah & His Prophet.:
>
> http://www.islamicacademy.org/html/Articles/English/Tableeghee%20Jma%...
>
> I am not in a position to judge the people who are being critiqued here ( the Tabliq Jaamat) - I've met them here in Stockholm,, in Oslo, in Copenhagen and in London.
>
> After reading that Hadith ( in a book entitled "Tablighi Jamaat Exposed<http://www.google.se/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CD...> "I asked my honourable Mandinka friend - a good friend the inevitable hypothetical question : "If the Prophet of Islam ordered you to kill me would you do so ?"
>
> He answered: Immediately! If Muhammad( s.a.w.) told me to kill you, I'd slaughter you immediately!"
>
> I told him,my dear friend, if Muhammad (Saw) told me to kill you, I'd plead for your life..First I would want to ascertain that he meant you and then Id still plead with him....
>
> So, a man would according to degree of one's faith and trust and understanding...
>
> Consider the Akeidah :
>
> http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&tbo=d&sclient=psy-ab&q=the+Akeidah&oq=...
>
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