Re: FW: USA Africa Dialogue Series - "Obey The Prophet, Even If He Tells You To Kill" ( with reference to Boko Haram)

Dear Adeshina,

No sarcasm meant – sarcasm they say is the lowest form of wit and I
was certainly not trying to be wit-ty..

Talking about friendship – the 1st of January is Oga Falola's birthday
so we can wish him both a Happy New Year and a Happy Birthday. I went
to the Post Office yesterday to enquire in this Xmas rush hour, how
long it takes for a parcel from Sweden to arrive in Texas. The usual
time is five to six days but all because of Jesus these days , she
says I have to send my Christmas present post-haste – as soon a
possible - and I told her that it's not about a birthday for Jesus or
in the name of Jesus

The friend in question that I am speaking about is called Demba Conta
he follows the religion of Islam and I am truly committed to the faith
of Abraham Isaac and Jacob..Demba himself will tell you that if he's
in an emergency the first person that he is most likely to turn to is
me Cornelius Hamelberg. I last talked to him about a week ago. He
once lived at St. Erikspaln and I lived about ten minutes walk away in
the same quarters Vasastan and he would often call me over when he
made tea (ah-tire/gunpowder ( green tea from China - we like
drinking tea like the Hausa man and the Englishman ) so I'd be over,
and we would have our cups of tea and enjoy the company of each other.

As Dr. Javad Nurbakhsh once told me " When I love a person, I always
love him."
The way I see it, how are we going to love G-d if we don't even show
love to the people that He has created - our brothers and sisters?

http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&sugexp=les%3B&gs_nf=3&gs_rn=0&gs_ri=hp&cp=19&gs_id=7&xhr=t&q=Dr.+Javad+Nurbakhsh&pf=p&tbo=d&output=search&sclient=psy-ab&oq=Dr.+Javad+Nurbakhsh&gs_l=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&bvm=bv.1355272958,d.bGE&fp=810ffe10e0d6b426&bpcl=39942515&biw=1024&bih=634

How can I deny our friendship? It's just that the Muslim believes that
when the Prophet of Islam speaks - it is almost the voice of the
Almighty speaking – and therefore if the Prophet of Islam says " do
this" the response is like Mark Anhony's " When Caesar says "Do this,"
it is perform'd "

http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&sugexp=les%3B&gs_nf=3&gs_rn=0&gs_ri=hp&cp=11&gs_id=6&xhr=t&q=Demba+Conta&pf=p&tbo=d&output=search&sclient=psy-ab&oq=Demba+Conta&gs_l=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&bvm=bv.1355272958,d.bGE&fp=810ffe10e0d6b426&bpcl=39942515&biw=1024&bih=634

What I was doing was testing the extent of our friendship and that's
why I asked - him if he would kill me if the Prophet of Islam told
him to do so and he , wanting to impress me with his faith was
actually saying that he would not disobey the Prophet of Islam's
explicit command/s or even discuss the matter. Off with his head –
which head? And then the deed would be done.

As I pointed out here earlier :
http://groups.google.com/group/usaafricadialogue/browse_thread/thread/b316c00cab0cc52b/dd19d039bc4253f5

and more abundantly clear here about the test that Aba Abraham
undergoes:

http://groups.google.com/group/usaafricadialogue/msg/8a463b9e44e54d5f

Some orders are easier to carry out than others:I once asked the late
Sheikh Hassan Cisse who was head Sheikh of the Tijaniyat -
headquarters at Kaolack a question. From my point of view a normal,
reasonable and respectfully worded question. His disciples asked him
for permission to throw me out a of the window. ( 7th floor) here in
Stockholm

Baruch Hashem permission was denied! If he had said "yes, go
ahead , send him to his doom, who knows what would or could have
happened - since I would have surely put up some resistance should
words have failed me, but as it happened, the Almighty in Whom I
trust , would have none of it!

There too I interpret the question " Shall we throw him out of the
window?" as a figure of speech - not literal....

I remain,

yours sincerely.

http://www.thelocal.se/blogs/corneliushamelberg/






On Dec 12, 9:57 pm, shina73_1...@yahoo.com wrote:
> The story may be true, but I just wonder what level of sarcasm I should inject into the eulogy you heaped on your 'murderous friend.' If a 'friend' even jokingly intimate me of such a possible scenario where he would unthinkingly kill me in obedience to one injunction like that, then insha Jesus, that would be the instant death of that 'friendship'. I don't think I can stand a 'murderous, but intelligent friend' just waiting for the right opportunity to send me off to Iwale Asa!
>
> IF the story is true, I beg you to change your address and your phone number...or plainly disappear from the universe of that 'friendship'!
>
> Notice, Sir, that I put all reference to that relationship in scare quote. It is truly scary.
>
> Adeshina Afolayan
> Sent from my BlackBerry wireless device from MTN
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Cornelius Hamelberg <corneliushamelb...@gmail.com>
>
> Sender: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
> Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2012 11:29:15
> To: USA Africa Dialogue Series<usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
> Reply-To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: FW: USA Africa Dialogue Series - "Obey The Prophet, Even If He
>  Tells You To Kill" ( with reference to Boko Haram)
>
> You must know these three things about an honourable Mandinka man: He
> does not joke about his woman, his money and his meat.
>
>  A few months ago we were informed that the Mandinka King Mansa Musa
> is the richest man that has ever lived and that he was a pious Muslim
> - that when he went on pilgrimage to Mecca he took with him several
> caravans loaded with gold, for Sadaka.
>
> In some ways I suppose that he is regarded as a role model.
>
> If you are familiar with the story of Sundiata  (lots of sorcery
> there) and after Sundiata you understand that the talismans and  many
> miracles credited to the Marabouts of the Mali, Sene-Gambia,Mauritania
> area, serve to strengthen peoples faith in Islam,  its Qutbs, Walis,
> Charismatic sheikhs, saints, miracle men and of course in the unseen
> and in the supernatural
>
> As far as I know this friend  -  if I were a Mwalimu I'd say that he's
> extremely intelligent  - at least  he followed the logic and reasons
> advanced in al-Mujara'at and some of the books written by Muhammad al-
> Tijani al-Samawi and arrived at his own conclusions – and he is
> formidable in argument and debate. He is even cunning, shrewd. He is
> certainly more rational than the Boko Harami people and I believe that
> he would be a good president of any African country, if democratically
> elected.
>
>  I suppose that he was – and still is – trying to impress me with what
> he believes I will think is the strength of his faith and his
> unflinching obedience to the Prophet of Islam (s.a.w). I could have
> asked him  - but  that would have been exceedingly rude – I could have
> asked him, " And what if  the Prophet of Islam asked you to slaughter
> your mother, your brothers and sisters, your wife your sons and
> daughters?"
>
> Of course he will respond: " But the prophet of Islam salallahu alaihi
> wa salaam would not command me to do such evil acts.!"
>
> Have you considered the faith of the suicide bomber ! For most people
> destroying someone else is easier than self- destructing
>
> Dr. Ogugua Anunoby, there are many Muslims who are waiting patiently
> and would like to fulfil this hadith tomorrow, if possible, Allah
> willing:
>
> http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&sugexp=les%3B&gs_nf=3&gs_rn=0&gs_ri=hp...
>
> http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&tbo=d&spell=1&q=Hadith+.+Jews+will+hid...
>
>  My honourable Mandinka friend is very imaginative and has described
> the reactions of three
>  possible scenarios that would signal  my bitter end  should I find
> myself hiding behind a tree on such an inauspicious occasion: he says
> that should it be our friend from Ghana (lets call him Ishak) , upon
> finding me hiding behind a rock or a tree, before beheading me Ishak
> would preach a long sermon starting with these words " As  the prophet
> of Islam told us " …..and ending with  "and now the time has come!"
>
> I tell my Honourable Mandinka friend that I'd tell Ishak to spare me
> the sermon and just go ahead with the beheading.
>
> Scenario 2: That our other friend ( Let's call him Umar ) would not be
> pompous or delay the execution with much talk, but with a coup de
> grâce I'd be gone to the everlasting bonfire.
>
>  Scenario 3: My honourable Mandinka friend says that should he be the
> one who first discovers me hiding behind a tree or a rock  - he would
> give me temporary respite, deal with a few others hiding behind rocks
> and trees before returning to me  - if I was still there, for the
> finale and goodbye.(like Hamlet dispatching Polonius to eternity with,
> "thou wretched, rash intruding fool , farewell!"
>
> I remember the day that Yitzak Rabin was assassinated. I didn't know
> that it had happened , I was ill and laying in bed. The phone rang  My
> Better Half told me it was  "Umar) I heard his voice  ( his exact
> words) "So they shot your friend"
> Now we had a friend in common, that he didn't like so much , and he
> used to describe him as "your friend",so I thought that that was the
> guy who had been shot – and at the same time I was shocked that
> "Umarr" could be breaking this news to me, apparently without feeling
> any sorrow. So I asked him, " Is he alive?"
>
> Then he told me " I'm talking about your friend Yitzak Rabin, mother
> foeker..!"
>
>  A few seconds after that I was watching the pandemonium on CNN  - I
> thought that a Palestinian had done it  - and that would have been the
> end of any two state solution, in fact, the guys in Ramallah would
> themselves voluntarily be moving to Jordan...
>
> The story I've told is true.
>
> http://www.thelocal.se/blogs/corneliushamelberg/
>
> On Dec 12, 6:38 pm, "Anunoby, Ogugua" <Anuno...@lincolnu.edu> wrote:
> > After reading that Hadith ( in a book entitled "Tablighi Jamaat Exposed<http://www.google.se/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CD...> "I asked my honourable Mandinka friend - a good friend the inevitable hypothetical question : "If the Prophet of Islam ordered you to kill me would you do so ?"
>
> > He answered: Immediately! If Muhammad( s.a.w.) told me to kill you, I'd slaughter you immediately!"
>
> > ch
>
> > Scary. Very scary.
> > Is the "Mandinka friend" above really a friend?  He/she is anything but.  The "Mandinka friend" seems to be a pitiable victim of severe successful indoctrination. His religious belief posture is seemingly  informed more by ignorance than faith. He epitomizes the many dangers of revealed religions that many attentive people have highlighted.
> > Why would/should any person of sound mind in their right mind believe a fallible, imperfect, and manipulative cleric preaching evil, who claims that God speaks directly to them, or that they speak for God? The sooner more people realize that clerical appointments are at the end of the day, jobs that help to pay the bills, the sooner more clerics purveying evil, are not taken too seriously. Keeping a job sometimes requires the unscrupulous jobber to mislead their followers.
> > Humankind has travelled long enough for faith to be increasingly punctuated by reason. History is profuse with records of the heavy toll of personal and group pain and suffering that blind faith has visited on the human race. Faith today, must be informed by reason if the gross mistakes of the past are not to be repeated.
> > I remember being told as an undergraduate student by a university Dean that while I will pass through the university, it is less certain that that the university will pass through me. I was advised to allow the university to pass through me by listening, observing, reading, and thinking before making up my mind.   Sweden has clearly not passed through the "Mandinka friend". Sad is it not?
>
> > oa
>
> > From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com [mailto:usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Cornelius Hamelberg
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 5:55 PM
> > To: USAAfricaDialogue
> > Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - "Obey The Prophet, Even If He Tells You To Kill" ( with reference to Boko Haram)
>
> > "Obey The Prophet, Even If He Tells You To Kill"
>
> >http://www.meforum.org/3394/qaradawi-murder
>
> >https://www.google.se/search?q=%22Obey+The+Prophet%2C+Even+If+He+Tell...
>
> > Qaradawi is familiar.
>
> > Nothing dramatic about the headline or the injunction in itself, considering the popular saying that "Obedience is the first law in heaven." Nor should it be anything strange to observe a Muslim or Muslims apparently obeying the Prophet of Islam even if he tells him or her to kill, since Islam is all about obeying Allah & his Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w) - be that killing rational or irrational from the point of view of common human understanding.
>
> > But are the Boko Haram people presently acting on the basis of what they believe to be a divine command - is that what they believe they are doing or have been doing - and will continue to do?
>
> > Somehow, in reading through Raymond Ibrahim's article I thought of Oluwatoyin Adepoju transcendental pacifism and his suggestion that "Muslims need to emphasize the transcendence of Allah, rather than struggle to defend the creator of the universe by killing other people, a move that reinforces a widespread  view of their religion as barbaric" - and the trajectory of that thesis which he continues here:
>
> ...
>
> read more »

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