Truly a journey through time and ideas.
This speaks volumes from a significant degree of African experience but I wonder if it is still universally accurate for all African countries:
"This strand contended that the intra class rivalries among the African ruling class, not only among themselves with respect to control of national state power; but also with respect to competitive relationship with the ruling classes of the dominant countries; was of such a nature and dynamic that it would make the goal of a real Pan African Unity with integrated political and economic systems and structures almost impossible and unachievable."
What do you think of the notion that some African countries like Botswana and Kenya are demonstrating a real sense of direction and quality leadership?
Is the South African situation not too complex to be encapsulated by that summation, for example?
I understand the emphasis of the centrality of class as very insightful. Its not possible to discuss political social formations in many contexts, particularly in terms of relative scope of access to resources as represented by economics and politics without reference to class.
Your points on the Niger Delta struggle is so moving and recalls Mobolaji Aluko's account from his work there of of how villages/ethnicities/communities in that challenged region are keen to define themselves as distinct groups.
May I ask how your educational and public history enabled you to link such a sophisticated understanding of and commitment to what I would call political and economic development and active involvement in the Niger Delta struggle? Education in Nigeria? Ife? Abu?
Your observation on the Diaspora and the Pan African idea is striking. They have little identification with any location in Africa-most of that is long lost.
I also wonder if a good degree of the most innovative developments in the pan-African religious system of Ifa/Afa/Fa/Afan is from the Diaspora and its non-African enthusiasts. To what degree is it fashionable for the better informed people in Nigeria for example to be seen practising such archaisms which may be respected for their cultural value but are no longer in mainstream favour?
Does Diop's idea of the African origin of civilisation predate the archaeological(?) conclusion to that effect which I understand is the current consensus?
Did his work influence that consensus?
He seems to be a blank spot in terms of prominent histories of people who contribute signally to reshaping global thought, to which class he would belong in pioneering such a fundamental understanding now widely confirmed independently of him.
My Google mail spell check, for example, will not recognise his name and will flag it but will not do so for Foucault's name. That is one index of the degree of penetration of a person or idea into global consciousness.
Please forgive my peppering you with questions. One is eager and happy to learn.
toyin
but I get
On the Pan
On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 1:29 PM, Jaye Gaskia <ogbegbe@yahoo.com> wrote:
Toyin,Thank you. Let me attempt a summation. What was refered to as 'utopian Pan Africanism', is the strand of Pan Africanism, that expresses a moral desire for African unity, including even arguements of economies of scale; but whichis silent on the class nature of that unity, and therefore on how class, class interests, and class struggles [particularly those of intra-class character] would inevitably affect the potential for and possibility of such Pan African unity in the age of capitalist imperialisms!On the other hand what we sought to do with Scientific Pan Africanism was to situate the drive for Pan African unity in the context of class exploitation and class struggle; to derive from this, the possibility of actualising this potential within the context of a Pan African Class victory of the exploited and surbordinate classes. It meant that Pan African Unity would only be achieved within the context of a Pan African Revolutionary struggle, which may win its first tentative victory in one or a few countries, but which will only become definitively successfull in the context of continental victory of the revolution or political process [and revolution is only a concentrated political process].This strand contended that the intra class rivalries among the African ruling class, not only among themselves with respect to control of national state power; but also with respect to competitive relationship with the ruling classes of the dominant countries; was of such a nature and dynamic that it would make the goal of a real Pan African Unity with integrated political and economic systems and structures almost impossible and unacheiveable.Furthermore we took from history, the notion of the African origin of Human civilisation propagated by Diop, the derived analysis that if Human civilisation originated in Africa and among people of colour [which by the way is in synch with the theory of evolution of the human species in general], then it stands to reason, that factors other than pigmentation and race were responsible for the current state of Africa and the African.One notion that i have found quite interesting, is the fact of the ease with which the African diaspora could embrace pan africanism, compared with africans back at home. It is probably largely due to the blunting of primordial cleavages by the common experience of slavery, deportation and the attempt to erase the African identity from the slaves.Let me explain this with a recent development. In the Niger Delta struggle from the mid 80s onward, and particularly from the mid 90s; among those of us who found ourselves in the braod leadership of the then emergent resource control struggle and movement of the peoples of the Niger Delta; there was almost a neat divide with respect to prioritisation of Niger Delta identity over the ethnic identities within the Niger delta between those of us who were not nominally from the Niger delta and as such had no primordial attachments to any of the constituent ethnic groups of the Delta, and those of us who were from the Niger Delta, had primordial ethnic attachments, and were therefore in most cases [except for a few] were more likely to think and act in ethnic terms.This was why for example the Ijaw Youth Council gained hegemony over the Chikoko Movement [a deliberately established Pan Niger Delta Resistance Movement]; and whose activities gave rise to and birthed the Ijaw Youth Council.I am not sure how much i have been able to satisfy your quest.Warm Regards,Jaye GaskiaSent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 12:34 AM
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Cheikh Anta Diop
Thank you very much, Jaye.I would like to understand the difference between " 'scientific Pan- Africanists' " as opposed to "utopian pan africanism [of] the late 80s and early 90s!"Can you sum it up?On your point about Egypt, but the African-Americans have eagerly embraced ancient Egypt ad even modern Egypt defines its tourist image in terms of ancient Egypt.
Even more striking, at the heart of the history of the body of knowledge represented by Western esotericism is the undisputed and openly visible influence of Egypt.Central to Western esotericism is the work of Hermes Trismesgistus, whose ideas seem traceable ultimately to Egypt. Hermeticism is very significant too for the work of Isaac Newton as evident from even a casual glance at modern Newton scholarship.Also, at the heart of the most influential magical school in the modern Western history, The Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, is a fantastic reworking of ancient Egyptian ritual and cosmology, an approach taken forward magnificently by Aleister Crowley, one of the most significant religious figures of the 20th century, in my view.Yet, Africans do not seem to take to heart the iconic Egyptian Book of the Dead, Akhnaton, the famous revolutionary pharaoh, the awesome Egyptian architecture,which the Western esoteric Rosicrucian school of AMORC uses as its central architectural style at its US headquarters or to the the art of Egypt, whether in scholarship, the arts or even on platforms like Facebook, while Diaspora Africans are using ancient Egypt as a centre of identification, along with the Yoruba origin Orisa tradition and Voodoo, as in this superb voodoo group-Supreme Voudun-African Cosmology-Hathor Centre for Massive Metaphysical Research ( note that Hathor is an Egyptian deity) and the mother site Supreme-Voudun and the wonderful Facebook page Ayibobo Nan Ginsen M'soti .Ayi Kwei Armah did publish Osiris Rising but I wonder if African writers and artists show much, if any interest in Egypt.I am also curious as to why Egypt's advanced civilisation does not seem to have influenced other African civilisations.I understand there are small pyramids in the Sudan. What could the significance of that be?I am puzzled as to why writing was not developed to greater level in Africa, beyond Egypt and Ethiopian Geetz script if I am correct, in spite of the achievement of EgyptWas if the difficulty of crossing beyond Northern Africa?I would like to share some fantastic Facebook images that indicate this fascination with Egypt in the African Diaspora-
toyin--On Sat, Dec 29, 2012 at 7:34 PM, Jaye Gaskia <ogbegbe@yahoo.com> wrote:
Toyin,I am responding as myself, and not on behalf of Cornelius to whom you addressed your questions. I have read Diop, and i am a little familiar with him. Encountering him and his body of works was one of those moments that turned us into what we then called 'scientific Pan- Africanists' as opposed to what we saw as utopian pan africanism in the late 80s and early 90s!However that is not the point of my response, the point of my response is on the bit about the relevance of Egypt to Africans. I get the impression that the very different character of ancient Egypt in contrast to its present Arab character maybe part of that reason. And it was to the unravelling of this dichotomy that Diop partly devoted his life and work!Warm Regards,JayeFrom: OLUWATOYIN ADEPOJU <tvade3@gmail.com>
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 7:42 PM
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Cheikh Anta Diop
Cornelius,Have you read Diop?What do you think of him?I have not read him yet.He is much lionised by Africa centred thinkers but he does not seem to feature much in the little exposure I have had to readings in African history.I was struck to see a description in the Fitzwilliam Museum in Cambridge of the ancient Egyptians as Black. I did not know that idea had gained the level of acceptance reflected in such a museum.In all, though, I get the impression that Egypt has little significance for many Africans and that its significance is much stronger for Diaspora Africans.What do you think?toyin--On Sat, Dec 29, 2012 at 6:29 PM, Cornelius Hamelberg <corneliushamelberg@gmail.com> wrote:
Today is Cheikh Anta Diop's birthday - some of the Diopists have been
celebrating that in Stockholm!
https://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&sugexp=les%3B&gs_rn=1&gs_ri=hp&tok=ILstxByuwc-SlnwPzA8Tzw&cp=16&gs_id=9z&xhr=t&q=Cheikh+Anta+Diop&pf=p&tbo=d&output=search&sclient=psy-ab&oq=Cheikh+Anta+Diop&gs_l=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.&bvm=bv.1355534169,d.bGE&fp=fc7fe2b45ce62c75&bpcl=40096503&biw=1024&bih=614
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