we can control things like drunken driving. even in france, the laws are strict and people now attend carefully to the requirement not to drink and drive
if they can do that in france, they can do that anywhere.
at issue here is not perfection: not a society without gun deaths or auto deaths, but reasonable, smart, humane, intelligent, correct, useful, necessary, real laws to circumscribe these conditions.
abdul, why are you contesting this? do you think everyone should have an uzi, or whatever they are called? or that we shouldn't attempt to limit drinking and driving?
why drives me crazy in this case is that gun manufacturers, and right wing, libertarian crackpots have managed to change the culture in this country to the point that it permits truly insane conditions to persist--unlike all the other industrialized countries of the world
ken
On 12/29/12 4:16 PM, Abdul Bangura wrote:
No matter how safe you build automobiles, drunk and reckless drivers behind the wheels are killing people.------- Original Message -----From: Jaye GaskiaSent: 12/29/2012 3:51:24 PMSubject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - If Guns Kill, Then Spoons MakePeople Fat!
--I find the analogy between guns and spoons funny to say the least, as well as the arguement that it is people who kill and not guns! So for example cars dont kill, accidents on roads don't kill? It is the drivers of the cars that kill? And therefore we must not build safer cars, safer roads, and impose speed limits?Granted that it is people who kill; but they are killing with guns, not sticks for the precise reason that guns are available and accessible.Regards,Jaye
From: Femi Kolapo <kolapof@uoguelph.ca>
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 7:21 PM
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - If Guns Kill, Then Spoons Make People Fat!
the important does not cancel out the urgent, though. it makes sense as is the practice to restrict access of the mentally unstable to guns and knives so they don't hurt others as well as themselves, as Ken has argued. what is probably happening is that many are naturally resistant to a view that characterizes society, and themselves, as 'insane' and needful of help by way of curtailing access to guns and gun ownership.
the Chicken Solution may be partial but it is urgent. it could be the start of the mammoth solution and i don't get why it has to be opposed to the more comprehensive solution which over a lifetime would include many elements anyway. i also think that the gun and spoon analogy is misleading. bullets and food sure don't sound alike.
------------------------F. J. Kolapo, (Associate Professor of African History)
History Department * University of Guelph * Guelph * Ontario * Canada* N1G 2W1
Phone:519/824.4120 ex.53212 Fax: 519.766.9516
----- Original Message -----
From: Abdul Bangura <theai@earthlink.net>
To: USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
Cc: leonenet <leonenet@lists.umbc.edu>
Sent: Sat, 29 Dec 2012 07:05:03 -0500 (EST)
Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - If Guns Kill, Then Spoons Make People Fat!
If Guns Kill, then Spoons Make People Fat!
Abdul Karim Bangura
Just for the record, I want to make it abundantly clear that I am not a supporter of guns. In fact, as far as I am concerned, all guns and Obama's drones and other weapons of mass destruction should disappear from the face of our God blessed Mother Earth. I do, however, believe that the prescription that making guns less accessible will cure gun violence is a Chicken Solution. Just as we in the field of Peace and Conflict Resolution have a mantra that says "Since wars begin in the minds of men, it is in the minds of men that the defences of peace must begin," I also believe that since gun violence begins in people's minds, it is people's minds that the cure for gun violence must begin.
As the following article shows, a majority of our American sisters and brothers support the National Rifle Association's position in the gun debate. Thus, until we can change most of our fellow Americans' attitudes toward guns, we are in for a very long struggle. Guns don't kill; it is people that kill. Thus, the most difficult and inconvenient medicine for gun violence must focus greatly on changing attitudes.
Gallup: Majority of Americans Hold Favorable View of NRA
Thursday, 27 Dec 2012 04:35 PM
By Stephen FellerShare:
A majority of Americans have a favorable view of the National Rifle Association, according to a new Gallup poll.
The poll also found that views of the gun advocacy group were more positive among gun owners, although owners said the NRA did not always reflect their views.
Fifty-four percent of respondents to the Gallup survey said they held a mostly favorable or very favorable view of the NRA, while 38 percent said they had a mostly unfavorable or very unfavorable view of the organization.
That is down from a high of 60 percent favorability in 2005, but still far above the low of 42 percent recorded in 1995.
Eighty-three percent of Republicans, and 71 percent of gun owners, also had a favorable view of the group, while 36 percent of Democrats and 40 percent of non-gun owners saw the NRA in a favorable light.
At least half the respondents in the poll said that the NRA "only sometimes" or "never" reflected their views on guns, whether or not a member of the household owns a firearm. Among gun owners, however, 50 percent of those participating in the poll said the group sometimes reflects their opinions.
Gallup conducted the poll of 1,038 people between Dec. 19 to 22, after the school shooting in Newtown, Conn., which left 26 people dead, but before the ambush killing of firefighters near Rochester, N.Y. The margin of error is 4 points.
© 2012 Newsmax. All rights reserved.
Read Latest Breaking News from Newsmax.com http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/NRA-Gallup-favorable-poll/2012/12/27/id/469243#ixzz2GRP3JEyy
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