RE: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Nigeria's Cardinal Francis Arinze: the next Pope?

Thank you Kwabby for enriching our conversation. You and I know of course that the Holy Spirit if (He/She exists) may not be interested in human affairs as some people believe. I have heard Christians say that St. Paul talked about faith and good work as the keys to desired outcome. It seems to me that St. Paul is right. It is said in the English language that heaven helps those who help themselves. That too seems to be the case.
My worry, for lack of a better word, is that some Africans and African leaders continue to "outsource" their present and future development and progress to other-than-themselves. The "outsourcees" have been Europeans, Americans (U.S.A.), and now China in that general order. The former Soviet Union (U.S.S.R.) was an "outsourcee" for some time I might add. Saudi Arabia and some Arab Gulf states have also been in the picture. Iran might soon be too.
President Obama is an example. He is the president of the United States of America. His job is to protect and advance his country's national interest. Why is this difficult for some Africans to acknowledge and appreciate? Why should any African expect him to serve Africa better and more than he serves his country? Some Africans are so confused about Obama's job that they expect more from him than he can ever deliver to Africa. I have some questions. Why should Obama do for Africa what Africa is able but unwilling to do for herself? Why should Obama subsume his country's interest to Africa's? What about self-agency? What about true self-determinism? What about self-reliance? What about Africans doing it themselves with a little valuable help from able and willing friends? That is how the more successful countries have and continue to get ahead. "Outsourcing" has not worked in the past. It is very unlikely to work in the present and the future. There is an obvious and simple reason why. The rivalry among countries is real and consequential. International cooperation and development is more a matter of politics and economics than favor and mercy. There is morality in international relations. It is more oftentimes a convenience than an obligation.

oa

-----Original Message-----
From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com [mailto:usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Akurang-Parry, Kwabena
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2013 7:59 PM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.bject: RE: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Nigeria's Cardinal Francis Arinze: the next Pope?

oa:

I missed your response. I am not one cut for running away from lively discussions with fine minds. Here I come. I will stop complaining and pray to the Holy Spirit so that s/he will deliver Africans from the subject of my complaints. Then again, we may hazard that Africans pray to the Holy Spirit more than any other group of people in the world, yet we are still in the margins, hoping that for once the Holy Spirit will look our way and pick one of us as a pope. Based on you faith, IKHIDE, my brother-in-law, is praying on his knees as the next pope.

Near Accra is the suburb of Madina, about one mile from the University of Ghana, Legon. Madina has a cluster of elementary schools with about 20 classrooms. Every late evening each of the 20 or so classrooms becomes a different "chapel" agog with powerful sermons, dance, music, and prophets speak in-tongues to summon the Holy Spirit. Sadly, the school, where the Holy Spirit visits every evening is in a state of dilapidation.

My message is very simple indeed. Let us call upon the Holy Spirit to solve problems facing Africans. From today forward, some of us will stop blaming non-Africans for the lingering effects of slavery, colonialism, neocolonialism, etc. and rather question the Holy Spirit about his/her divine purpose that brings so much hardships to Africans. Once the Holy Spirit intervenes on behalf of Africans, "savage" indignation will no longer lacerate our hearts!

Kwabena

________________________________________
From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com [usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com] on behalf of Anunoby, Ogugua [AnunobyO@lincolnu.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 12:41 PM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Nigeria's Cardinal Francis Arinze: the next Pope?

"My previous contribution to the discussion, call it a quibble, has nothing to do with whether Africans are their own corrosive agents of marginalization or not. Rather, I was just trying to understand how an educated African like you could come to conclusions that justified divine arbitration which favors white!"

kap


I have not and am very unlikely to "come to conclusions that justified divine arbitration which favors white!". The Catholic Church's teaching is clear on the role she says that the Holy Spirit plays in the choice of a new pope. Anyone who accepts the Church's teaching should not unduly fuse about the choice that emerges. The question then is how may the Holy Spirit be implored to inspire vote-eligible Cardinals to elect an African pope? My suggestion is prayers which by the way is the Church's prescription.
If however one believes that the papal election process is political or even racial, targeted lobbying and public relations among others, may help to produce an African pope this time. This all said, no one at this time, including all the Cardinals, knows for a fact where the next pope will come from or who they might be.
I understand the frustrations of Africans who unceasingly choose marginalization to explain Africa and Africans' failures and underperformance as a regional block and demographic. My thinking is that the age of excuses is long gone. Africans should take control of their present and future and grab their destiny by the scruff of the neck. Take the current events in Mali. It was known for some time that the country was fragile and had seriously disaffected citizens in its northern territories. What did the politically dominant southerners do about this? Not much as far as I know. Libya falls to insurgents. What was the southern Mali response? A hodge-podge military coup. What did the ECOWAS and AU do about the Islamists takeover of much of Mali? Endless meetings and talk. Then comes France with a few thousand soldiers. The rest is evolving history. Who let France in? What/Who will take France out of Mali? Will Europeans allow similar events to unfold in Europe?

oa



-----Original Message-----
From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com [mailto:usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Akurang-Parry, Kwabena
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 6:36 PM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Nigeria's Cardinal Francis Arinze: the next Pope?

Oga Falola, please, post this instead of the previous one. Thanks

Kwabena.

-----------------------------------------

Papa OA:

We can debate whether Africans are solely responsible for their marginalization or not when the sun meets with the moon. Your present response is extraneous, if not antipodal, to the point at stake which is your perspective that the stoic hands of the Holy Spirit steer the course of Cardinals' voting patterns. As a result, if the Cardinals vote for another white pope it is ditto: divine mediation that works for all. My previous contribution to the discussion, call it a quibble, has nothing to do with whether Africans are their own corrosive agents of marginalization or not. Rather, I was just trying to understand how an educated African like you could come to conclusions that justified divine arbitration which favors white! As we say in Ghana, don't collapse the goalpost to score goals all over the field of play. Let us maintain the goalposts of your divine interventionist discrimination against and marginalization of Africans.

Kwabena

Kwabena Akurang-Parry, Ph. D.

(Professor of African Studies & World History)

Dept of History/Philosophy

Shippensburg University

Shippensburg, PA 17257

USA



Phone 717 477 1286

Fax 7171 477 4062

________________________________________
From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com [usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com] on behalf of Anunoby, Ogugua [AnunobyO@lincolnu.edu]
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 5:33 PM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Nigeria's Cardinal Francis Arinze: the next Pope?

I am slow to accept that anyone marginalizes Africans. Not anymore. Africans are solely responsible for their marginalization if indeed they are. If you choose to be fodder, what do you expect livestock to do to and with you? There was a time Brazil, China, India, and Malaysia along with African countries griped about marginalization. Mostly African countries continue to sing that same song today. Brazil, China, India, and Malaysia, have left African countries behind. More countries outside the African continent soon will.
Self-determination in today's world is more a choice than anything else.

oa



---Original Message-----
From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com [mailto:usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Akurang-Parry, Kwabena
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 3:08 PM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Nigeria's Cardinal Francis Arinze: the next Pope?

So do we have a Holy Spirit who always inspires Cardinals to vote for people who belong to one particular "racial" group? So do we have a Holy Spirit who teaches that Catholicism (broadly Christianity) is better than Indigenous African religions? So do we have a Holy Spirit who teaches that God and Jesus are whites - visit many Churches in Ghana and you will find the photo of Jesus cast in powerful white colors? So why should the Holy Spirit inspire Cardinals to discriminate against "Africans"? And why should the Holy Spirit inspire African scholars to accept that s/he influences the marginalization of Africans and that it is acceptable? Then again all religions are based on faith, not science. No wonder that I pose these incantatory questions!

Kwabena


________________________________________
From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com [usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com] on behalf of Anunoby, Ogugua [AnunobyO@lincolnu.edu]
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 2:52 PM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Nigeria's Cardinal Francis Arinze: the next Pope?

Is all the speculation on the next pope unnecessary? Yes, if you believe as faithful Catholics do, that the Holy Spirit makes the call. Is it a waste of valuable time? No, if you do not believe that the Holy Spirits has a role in the election/selection process.
If therefore the Holy Spirit inspires eligible-to-vote Cardinals to vote as they will do, any living baptized Catholic including Francis Cardinal Arinze, has a good chance of becoming the next pope. It should not matter that Arinze has no vote as it does not for any other baptized Catholic. Vote eligibility is not a constraining requirement.
Is recent history a useful guide? I am not sure that it is. Karol Cardinal Wojtyla (John Paul II) was a barely mentioned peripheral, papal succession candidate in 1978. Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger (Benedict VI)was considered by many to be too old and frail to become pope himself in 2005.

oa
-----Original Message-----
From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com [mailto:usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Chidi Anthony Opara
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 9:53 AM
To: USA Africa Dialogue Series
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Nigeria's Cardinal Francis Arinze: the next Pope?

"Also my understanding is that although if you are over 80, you cannot attend the conclave, but it does not preclude you being voted for."
-----JG

Really Jaye? I understand that the elected have to be asked if he accepts and must say yes before being proclaimed Pope and that that must be in the conclave which those 80 years and above do not attend.

CAO.


On 18 Feb, 05:15, Jaye Gaskia <ogbe...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Although i am not minded on joining issues on this matter, nevertheless Cardinal Arinze will not be 80 yet by the time of the conclave. Also my understanding is that although if you are over 80, you can not attend the conclave, but it does not preclude you being voted for.
> JG
>
> ________________________________
> From: Chidi Anthony Opara <chidi.op...@gmail.com>
> To: USA Africa Dialogue Series <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 9:34 AM
> Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Nigeria's Cardinal Francis Arinze: the next Pope?
>
> By the current Vatican stipulation regarding who can attend a conclave
> to elect or be elected a Pope, Cardinal Arinze is not qualified. So
> what is the basis for this speculation?
>
> CAO.
>
> On 17 Feb, 14:51, Cornelius Hamelberg <corneliushamelb...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Is it psychologically probable that another Octogenarian will be
> > elected to succeed Pope Benedictus XVI?
>
> > For the gamblers: The next Pope, betting odds :
>
> >http://www.oddschecker.com/politics-and-election/next-pope/winner
>
> > "Cardinal Ouellet, born on June 8, 1944 in La Motte, Que., is fluent
> > in six languages - French, English, Spanish, Portuguese, German and
> > Italian - according to John Allen, who writes from Rome for the U.S.
> > National Catholic Reporter. "
>
> > Cardinal Marc Ouellet thinks that the job would be " a nightmare":http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&tbo=d&output=search&sclient=psy-ab&q=C...
>
> > On Feb 17, 6:33 pm, Ikhide <xoki...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > "There is an saying in the Vatican: young cardinals vote for old popes. This bodes will for the 80-year-old Cardinal Arinze, an Igbo Nigerian who spent 25 years in the Vatican. He was, once, the world's youngest bishop. He is quite conservative, as the last two Popes were, and was seen as a runner last time. The liberal Cardinals will like the idea of a Pope from the developing world. The new rules mean a new Pope needs the votes of two-thirds of the Cardinals, so one faction cannot impose its will over another. Since no one expected Benedict's resignation, it could well be that the Cardinals are not ready to come up with a long-term solution. Older popes are, historically, a form of compromise. Arinze himself can't vote, having turned 80. There are only ten African electors left."
>
> > >http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2013/02/nigerias-cardinal-fr...
>
> > > - Ikhide
>
> > > Stalk my blog athttp://www.xokigbo.com/ Follow me on Twitter:
> > > @ikhide Join me on Facebook:www.facebook.com/ikhide
>
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