Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Okigbo - Mythmaker & towncrier at Heavensgate

Chidi,

Now I'm going to go far astray.

We encounter, "To be or not to be" - and that never fails to get us
going some way or other down some mental railway line on the way to
Enugu or some slippery track to wherever and back...

Or imagine you wake up - as I did one morning in Owerri, to hear a
voice passing by my window shouting,"I am the everlasting!". At first,
I thought that it was some crazy man going by, only a few days later
did I know that it was a serious pentecostal preacher on duty, doing
his "Early Morning Call" and that on that occasion he was not talking
in his own name but had only been quoting – not plagiarizing Jesus of
Nazareth, hopefully, with his permission....

http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&sclient=psy-ab&q=Jesus+:+I+am+statements&oq=Jesus+:+I+am+statements&gs_l=hp.12..0l4.0.0.1.1233.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0.les%3B..0.0...1c..5.psy-ab.0NR5RAkX0Hs&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.43287494,d.bGE&fp=72b9c73243d0bb8d&biw=1024&bih=610

As you always remind us, in defence of your commerce, "Reproductions
in part or in whole, in whatever forms, of ChidiAnthonyOparaPoetry/
Quotes except for non-profit information and education purposes,
without a written permission from the Author is not allowed."

Methinks that it's OK that thou art now fighting tooth & nail to
defend thy intellectual property rights, thine inalienable legal
rights & entitlements to all poetic property which is copyrighted and
therefore legally thine, for which reason thou wouldst therefore not
like others (pretentious monkeys) to be going around reciting thy
lovely verses in public and getting standing ovations for them all,
without thy express permission - knowing that thy permits are only
generously given for non-profit information or education purposes.
About that every one who is not Chidi is forewarned : Be it anathema
to append any other name or signature as author of
ChidiAnthonyOparaPoetry/Quotes not even for non-profit information and
education purposes, without a written permission from The Author – or
else!

What about for Humanitarian purposes? For the good of all mankind – do
we have permission then?

As one who enters a new world when I meet your poems and some of your
sayings, I am curious as to not so much your purpose or motivation but
as to the source or sources of your inspiration - your muse. For
those baptised by the holy Ghost - that is claimed as their
inspiration – for some others it's Beatrice.

Can we non-atheists agree that the Almighty is the source of
scripture ? Of poetry?

It is often said that "Great Minds think alike". Even to the point of
divine coincidences - even synchronicity, such as when Uwais al
Qarani all the way in Yemen intuited that the Prophet of Islam's front
tooth had been martyred at the Battle of Uhud, Uwaid did the same to
his own...

In no time at all ,we will then get tangled up in "Who or what is a
great mind?" Is Mwalimu X ," a great mind"? He may continue all his
labours under such a self-impression. In fact isn't that what some not
so great minds do: assemble an array/ arsenal of what others (great or
not so great minds) have said or done – analyse or even disembowel
such matter and hopefully come out with something new - some original
knowledge which was not in the world before?

As you say in one of your saying, "Di road wey thief follow go after
im thief, na di road dem
dey follow go find am."

There is some confusion in these matters in the area of religion.
Islam is often accused by adherents of other faiths of having
plagiarised the Jewish Bible - and of having done a bad job of it,
since there are so many significant differences/discrepancies between
the two versions about what actually happened – the original version –
that we may refer to as the precedent and the Quranic version in
excellent poetic Arabic, about the prophet Moses, about David, about
Solomon (the Quran for example reverses a judgement of Solomon) the
Quranic story about a certain cow...etc...Erwin I. J. Rosenthal takes
up some of these matters in his little book " Judaism and Islam" in
which he attributes some of the sources of Islam's versions of
Israelite histories:

http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&sclient=psy-ab&q=Rosenthal+:+JUDAISM+AND+ISLAM&oq=Rosenthal+:+JUDAISM+AND+ISLAM&gs_l=serp.12..0i22i30.4948.4948.0.6415.1.1.0.0.0.0.55.55.1.1.0.les%3B..0.0...1c..5.psy-ab.UByIgqismsM&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&fp=72b9c73243d0bb8d&biw=1024&bih=610

There's also a few contradictions between Quran and the so called "New
Testament" - about Mary, about the so called prophet Isa himself –
that he did not die on the cross etc and the argument about the "Son
of God" taken at a metaphorical (sperm of heaven) or theological
level, reads like a polemic addressed to the Monophysites of the
Syrian orthodox church as it existed in those days.

How does Islam for instance deflect these charges? That is what I was
referring to in my previous posting: Islam's Qur'an makes a counter
accusation saying that the Quran has made certain improvements and is
the Final" revelation...

http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&output=search&sclient=psy-ab&q=Quran+2.+79&oq=Quran+2.+79&gs_l=hp.12..0i22i30l2.3868.3868.0.5721.1.1.0.0.0.0.84.84.1.1.0.les%3B..0.0...1c.2.5.psy-ab.UAoB2f1dzKc&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.43287494,d.bGE&fp=72b9c73243d0bb8d&biw=1024&bih=610

Judaism also makes the following correction :


1. He (the Almighty) " granted His flow of prophecy
to His treasured splendrous people.
In Israel none like Moses arose again –
a prophet who perceived His vision clearly.
God gave His people a Torah of truth,
by means of His prophet , the most trusted of His household.
God will never amend nor change His law
for all eternity, for any other one..."

( According to the Siddur notes on the above "God revealed His will
through His prophets. " Like Moses" - Moses' prophecy is peerless,
otherwise another " prophet" could conceivably challenge or amend it,
thus challenging the authenticity of the Torah"

2. "The theme of the Haftarah blessings is the integrity of the
prophets and their teachings. Even when it is their mission to
criticize and threaten, they are good to the Jewish people. Also, they
are chosen because they are good people: learned, righteous,
impressive etc. Our tradition does not accept prophets who are lacking
in any of the attributes of Jewish greatness."

So , some of the complications about inspiration and scripture can
replay when poets and even musicians are too close to their role
models. N.B. No two great guitarists play the same solo note for
note....

Like a blithering idiot
( "full of sound and fury, Signifying nothing")

Sin-
cerely
said,

http://www.thelocal.se/blogs/corneliushamelberg/


On Mar 13, 9:57 am, Chidi Anthony Opara <chidi.op...@gmail.com> wrote:
> "Go on in your labour of love of churning out your poems."
> -------Olayinka.
>
> From now on, I would be "churning out" other peoples' poems since
> plagiarism is dead. My poems, which you appreciated on this forum at
> least on one occasion, would now be "churned out" to the folks at the
> motor parks, who would at least mention me as the author when quoting
> the poems. I heard the other day that a Nigerian writer from Canada
> was in Lagos doing post-doctoral research in "urban narratives". When
> it finally narrows down to "Motor Park narratives", I would be
> singing; "Oh happy day!"
>
> CAO.
>
> On 12 Mar, 22:32, Olayinka Agbetuyi <yagbet...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > I quite appreciatec your parody of my position.  Go on in your labour of love of churning out your poems.  I never intended that anyone profits by verbatim reproduction of the work of others without any value added and no credit of source
>
> > > Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 10:17:14 -0700
> > > Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Okigbo - Mythmaker & towncrier at Heavensgate
> > > From: chidi.op...@gmail.com
> > > To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
>
> > > "I think you missed the thrust of my response, which is what
> > > constitutes and what ought to constitute right and wrong of the
> > > matter.  You seem to focus on what IS as opposed to my emphasis on
> > > what ought to be, regarding the position of the law on artistic
> > > writings, but you are perfectly entitled to your take on the issue".
> > > ----------Olayinka.
>
> > > Until what ought to constitute right and wrong of the matter (what
> > > ought to be) is settled, what constitutes right and wrong (what is)
> > > should continue to prevail. Okigbo's defenders in my opinion, are
> > > seeking to redefine plagiarism and until they succeed in doing that,
> > > the man stands guilty of the offence, going by the present definition
> > > (what is).
>
> > > CAO.
>
> > > "I refer you again to Obi Nwakamma's problematisation of 'plagiarism.'
> > > I quite enjoyed it".
> > > ---------Olayinka.
>
> > > My take on that is that there is no more need for me to bother myself
> > > writing poems, all I need to do now is to wait, as soon as Obi
> > > Nwakanma releases the Poem he said he is working on, I will copy it
> > > verbatim, put my name on it and publish it without giving him credit.
> > > Oh la la, the good days are here.
>
> > > CAO
>
> > > On 12 Mar, 16:55, Olayinka Agbetuyi <yagbet...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > > CAO:
>
> > > > I think you missed the thrust of my response, which is what constitutes and what ought to constitute right and wrong of the matter.  You seem to focus on what IS as opposed to my emphasis on what ought to be, regarding the postition of the law on artistic writings, but you are perfectly entitled to your take on the issue.
>
> > > > I do not pander to Okigbo's infallibility.  Like Freud, the fact that he did a series of re-writing of his poetry means he is the first to admit to his own fallibility and endless quest for improvements.  The idea that his earliest critics are not well read is simply not true.  I maintain that Okigbo deliberately left those great literary messages in his poetry for posterity, so that decades later some people might not say it was impossible for him to write such poetry having not been a graduate of English or the literary arts.  These are deliberate footprints of the path trodden by his mind.  He wants people to see what he has read.
>
> > > > I refer you again to Obi Nwakammas problematisation of 'plagiarism.' I quite enjoyed it.
>
> > > > > Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 04:48:46 -0700
> > > > > Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Okigbo - Mythmaker & towncrier at Heavensgate
> > > > > From: chidi.op...@gmail.com
> > > > > To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
>
> > > > > Olayinka,
> > > > > You do not seem to me to be making a distinction between borrowing and
> > > > > stealing(may be my motor park mentality is to be blamed). You also
> > > > > seem to me to be suggesting that because certain illegalities are
> > > > > condoned by a certain group of people, other groups must also condone
> > > > > illegalities(This motor park mentality again). You also(may be
> > > > > unknowingly) threw up the usual myth of Christopher Okigbo
> > > > > infallibility.
>
> > > > > Okigbo's accusers, going by the evidences they presented, accused the
> > > > > man of plagiarism(and we all know what plagiarism is, don't we?), but
> > > > > so far the Okigbo defenders have not been able to convincingly debunk
> > > > > the allegation.
>
> > > > > In one of my previous posts, I said that the problem with the Okigbo
> > > > > narrative is that too many scholars wrote too many eulogies on
> > > > > Okigbo(not actually based on deep researches), before the bubble
> > > > > bursted and that these defences and conspiracies of silence are
> > > > > efforts to preserve their credibility.
>
> > > > > Finally, I do not think that adhering to the provisions of the law
> > > > > would amount to writers inviting lawyers into their practice.
>
> > > > > Be well always my brother
>
> > > > > CAO.
>
> > > > > On Mar 12, 11:33 am, Olayinka Agbetuyi <yagbet...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > CAO:
> > > > > > We had this debate before and my position then was to refer forumiites to a Barthesian,contra Anglo-French critical perrspective summed up in Barthe's S/Z: Collective ownership of language by all of humanity both the departed and the present from which each individual use is a borrowing.  Barthes notion of 'voices off stage' that influences discourses.  I suppose this was what WS was getting at  in the piece quoted by Biko.  Another useful way to look at it is to compare such verbal art to the practices of the collage artists- a form of experimentation in verbal collage if you may.  Okigbo was well aware of these movements during his life, and hence hiis inclusion of Picasso's Guernica in his poetry.  We may see Okigbo, in this light as one of the foremost scholars in Africa on the interrelationship of the arts.
> > > > > > Another way of viewing the creative practice of Okigbo in this regard and Yambo Ouloguem (both of whom I have read and taught, although I have not read, I confess, Beyala to include her,but if those who have read her think, think there is a strong parallel with the earlier two can exculpate her in that regard) is to interpret their creative style as the art of the bricolleur.  Bticollage was popularized by Benjamininian followers and the Frankfurt school of literary criticism.
> > > > > > To suggest that Okigbo actually intended to 'fraudulently' deceive the reader by scurrilously inserting segments which he thought readers and learned literary contemporaries like J.P. Clark, WS, and Achebe would not discover is to insult his intelligence and  memory.  I am suggesting that the insertions were deliberately placed there so that learned critical scholars can discover them and reflect on the creative possibilities such artistic techniques can open up.
> > > > > > I was listening to an interview of Dionne Warwick just before Xmas, which showed that musicians are not really perturbed about this plagiarism business which purveyors of ossified words on pages are so concerned about.  She  decribed how several musicians would sing exactly the same song after it had been sung by others before and take ownership of the song and nobody says O! thats Michael Jacksons  song she is singing.  I listened to another talk by Donny Osmond in which he said the song 'one Bad Apple' which was sung by MJ was originally written for him and another song originally written for MJ shot him (Donny) into prominence.  Dusty Springfield's  'Son of a Preacher Man' was first sung by another artist before it was popularized and owned by Dusty.  Do I need to include 'And I would Always Love You' by Dolly Parton and .Whitney.. Who of the two is the rightful owner of the song?  Jet Flight?  One could go on and on...Did these artistes write by-liners on the albums to show who first sang them to defend them against charges of plagiarism? The point bears restative: art is not an essay, or book of critical essays; of course, conversely, discourses can be artistic!
> > > > > > On the final note of lawyers, If lawyers will not invite artistes to define how law should be practised, why should lawyers or publishers dictate to artistes what art is and what should be included and excluded?
> > > > > > Olayinka Agbetuyi
>
> > > > > > > Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 06:23:10 -0700
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Okigbo - Mythmaker & towncrier at Heavensgate
> > > > > > > From: chidi.op...@gmail.com
> > > > > > > To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
>
> > > > > > > "One regrets to have missed this debate since Im currently working on
> > > > > > > Okigbo right now as I have off and on for three decades.  i like the
> > > > > > > phrase weaving the material into new product which requires talent.
> > > > > > > That was precisely what Okigbo did in all his 'liftings' from the Timi
> > > > > > > of Ede's royal chant to other global iftings.  Again I say it is not
> > > > > > > plagiarism since it is not anessay and since he did not simply copy
> > > > > > > the whole works (or most of it -lawyers and publishing houses will
> > > > > > > have a different view) and merely stamped his name on the cover.
> > > > > > > Phrases are re-inserted in different narrative contexts to
> > > > > > > demonstrates, perhaps that the ultimate meanings in communicative
> > > > > > > peaces are not always necessarily self-evident.  the same phrase or
> > > > > > > sentence can mean different things in different contexts.  Therein
> > > > > > > lies the Okigbo genius".
> > > > > > > -------Olayinka Agbetuyi
>
> > > > > > > Olayinka,
> > > > > > > The weaved material must have a uniqueness that would make rewards for
> > > > > > > and the protection of the talent of the weaver
>
> ...
>
> read more »

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