Monday, July 21, 2014

FW: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Oga Ogugua Anunoby , so what if the APC under whatever leadershwins the next presidential election?

Thank you AA

I did not characterize the Ankrah Regime in Ghana as constitutional. I did not ascribe legitimacy to it. I did state that Ankrah brokered the Aburi meeting of Nigeria's military leaders. He did.  Ojukwu, Gowon, Usman Katsine, Adewale Wey and others were willing attendees. Please read my post again. It seems to be your mind that is set. I salute and thank you too.

 

oa

 

From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com [mailto:usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Abolaji Adekeye
Sent: Monday, July 21, 2014 6:59 AM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Oga Ogugua Anunoby , so what if the APC under whatever leadershwins the next presidential election?

 

Maazi Ogugua,

I salute you. I do not see the merit of joining issues with you as your mind is set.

However,  it is curious that for all your erudition your submission is filled with contradictions.

You said Gowon's government was not constitutional and in the same breath you are giving General Ankrah legitimacy conveniently because he superintended the Aburi Accord.

On 21 Jul 2014 11:21, "Anunoby, Ogugua" <AnunobyO@lincolnu.edu> wrote:

Thank you CH.

I had and still have no desire to be dismissive of you or your considered position in our conversation. Please pardon me if I did.

The point that I have tried to make so far is that your man grossly violated Nigeria's constitution. He overthrew a democratically elected government, forcibly seized power, governed Nigerians without their consent, violated the rights of fellow citizens, executed some fellow citizens on the basis of retroactive law, and staged the failed kidnapping of  a Nigerian citizen from a foreign country- international banditry. I could go on.

All of the above may be forgiven if your man publicly acknowledges his folly and law-breaking, and asks Nigerians for forgiveness. All I am asking of him is whole contrition. Your man should not carry on as if he did right in his choices and actions as a coup plotter and head of a military junta. A lot that was unacceptable and in some cases unthinkable, happened under his watch. He must be held  accountable as he would be in a more serious country. I really believe that  a majority of Nigerians do not have any appetite for similar wrongs against the Nigerian people, to be committed in the future.

Ojukwu's enemies whoever they might be may point out whatever as much as they please. Nzeogwu was a coup plotter. Ojukwu I repeat, was not a coup plotter.  Ojukwu did not rebel against a constitutional government. The Gowon regime was not constitutionally installed. The regime seized power through violence that is unprecedented in Nigeria's history. The violence of the Nzeogwu-led coup neither explains that violence nor redeems the perpetrators. The Nigerian Army that Ojukwu waged war against after that army attacked him, was not the constitutional, disciplined army that Ojukwu, an administrative officer in the  civil service, voluntarily joined after arguably, the best education anyone could have had in Ojukwu's day. It was an army that was violently out of control by considered choice. It was an army that brutally murdered loads of its own officers and men. Ojukwu actually tried to save that army. He believed disciplined command in the military. He publicly and repeatedly called on Gowon, to defer supreme command of that army to the most senior commissioned army officer at the time, as was proper to do. Ojukwu publicly declared that he would be loyal to such a commander. Gowon did not. We all know what became of that army and Nigeria. You may know that Ojukwu counselled Nzeogwu to submit to the authority of the most senior commissioned officer in the Nigeria army after the Nzeogwu coup. Nzeogwu did as was proper to do.

Nigeria would be a different country today had Gowon done the right and proper things. He was a voluntary signatory to the Aburi Accord brokered by Ghana's General Ankrah. Gowon, on return to Nigeria, refused to implement the agreements reached in Ghana. He discarded the accord. Had Gowon implemented that accord, there might not have been a war. Nigeria may have had a different genre of leaders and a less regressive political culture. Nigeria may have by now, become a more prosperous and consequent country. Your man might not have been the subject of our conversation as he is right now. Boko Haram might never have existed to plague Nigeria as she has done and continues to do. It is instructive that some Nigerian politicians and political commentators now recommend important elements of the Aburi Accord as a way forward for Nigeria.

I believe that history is important. I believe that historical political events should be studied, discussed, and important lessons learned if a polity, is to make optimum, timely, desired progress.  We both have heard I believe, that  a different outcome is unlikely to result from making the same mistake. Those who ignore important lessons of history might be doing so at their peril.  Thank you again CH.

 

oa

From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com [mailto:usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Cornelius Hamelberg
Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2014 9:01 PM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Oga Ogugua Anunoby , so what if the APC under whatever leadershwins the next presidential election?

 

Sir,

I don't know if your goodbye was a dismissive "that's the end of the matter" or it was meant as an abbreviated  "God be with you!" In either case, it's not that I refuse to be dismissed or terminated just like that, and so, aware that I was born in Freetown, where people place a high premium on individual freedom, I give myself  the permission, the right of reply and for the record,  to clarify the following tiny misunderstandings:

1.      I wasn't being pedantic. When I say the Yoruba man – or indeed the Igbo man, I am speaking generally. If I were to say all Igbo men, that would include your honourable self, as you could not be an exception. My man ( Muhammadu Buhari) is definitely not an Igbo man  - if he were an Igbo man I'm still not sure whether or not  you would  be inclined to look upon him more favourably  or "through the ethnicity prism" as you put it. Or through the "religion" or "regional" or even "cultural" prism. We know that our man Ojukwu for instance could easily distinguish between Yakubu Gowon's ethnicity (Ngas) and that of Sani Abacha (Kanuri) and not the gross blanket term man that racists tend to use for all Black people ( "nigger") which some of them even believe is an abbreviation for Nigerian.

2.       You say that "Ojukwu was not coup plotter" - but you must admit that be that as it may, his enemies can also point out that he rebelled against the authority of  the holy  Nigerian constitution, and his man  Major Chukwuma Nzeogwu is still guilty of a most heinous crime when he  slaughtered Sir Ahmadu Bello, the Sardauna of Sokoto.  Unlike Brother Buhari General Ojukwu waged a war against the Nigerian army. You are the one who says "It is a crime because the constitution/law says it is"

3.       A question you expect me to answer: "Who is paying for your man's campaign I humbly ask?"  C'mon !

4.       You next question; "You ask those who criticized your man when he was Head of State what happened to them after they did." I like that question. At least they are alive...

 

That was all. At this point I don't know if either my man or Goodluck Jonathan will be contesting the presidential elections. Like you, I also pray that the better man wins...for the good of Nigeria...

 

Bye,

CH.



On Saturday, 19 July 2014 23:51:24 UTC+2, Anunoby, Ogugua wrote:

Thank you CH.

Ojukwu was not coup plotter. He did not overthrow any democratically elected government. He did not lead a military junta. He was a believer in constitutional government. He, in my opinion, is not relevant to our conversation.  

I get your intimation though. I suspect that it is based on your concern ( I will be disappointed that it is your conviction) that I view your man through the ethnicity prism. I assure you that I do not. I know that you know that the end rarely justifies the means especially when the means are unlawful/illegal and in your man's case, criminal and treasonable. Wrong is not right because it is  informed by good intentions. Masses of innocent people have suffered because of the so-called good intentions of actors especially.

I am surprised by your sweeping generalization about the Igbo man and his conflation as you allege, of "Hausa man" and "Muslim". I strongly disagree. Every community/society has both its ignorant/uneducated and educated/informed classes.  It is not possible that all Igbo men are not familiar with the population geography and history of Nigeria as you claim.

You state that your man has a better "moral backbone" than his peers and did not amply "line his pockets" in power. What/where is the evidence that verifiably  and veritably supports this proposition? An unending campaign for the office of president of Nigeria requires deep pockets. Who is paying for your man's campaign I humbly ask?

A military coup, is not acceptable in a constitutional democracy, or a less treasonable crime because it was bloodless and/or is motivated by pompous indignation and arrogant self-righteousness. It is a crime because the constitution/law says it is. Has it not been said that "the flag is the last refuge of the scoundrel"? I add that the flag is also a refuge of political opportunists. In a democracy, citizens should choose their leaders. There is still no conclusive evidence that you man is at peace with this value. He has rejected the results of every elections that he has lost. He has challenged the results of every election he lost in court. He lost in court each time. Those are not the ways of a reformed autocrat. He seems to believe that every election he lost was rigged, and only elections he won were free and fair. He will only accept the result of an election if he is declared the winner. Those are the ways of a closet autocrat.

It is unwise and very risky to ignore an autocrat's past as he seeks new high political office. His past is a known. His future is an unknown. You claim that "he is surely not the same person that he was then- has had time to reflect and as a good Muslim to repent". That is the hope and expectation but what/where is the evidence that is the case? He may in fact be a worse person. We do not know. He is an angry man.

True repentance is preceded by acknowledgement of wrong doing and contrition. We do not know that this  has been the case with your man. As much as you admire your man, it is not for you or indeed anyone else to apologize for him. He can speak for himself but refuses to. His public posture and pronouncements strongly cause many Nigerians to believe that he wants to come back to "finish the job" he started. Your man's several failures at the polls cause me to believe that a majority of Nigerians do not want that "job" finished. Then again what job if I may ask?

I remind you that your man criticizes President Jonathan and goes home to his family and loved ones. You ask those who criticized your man when he was Head of State what happened to them after they did.

This conversation for me, is not about the President Jonathan and his stewardship. It is roundly about the legitimate concerns, doubts, and suspicions there are about your man as a possible future president of Nigeria, given what is known about his past and present. If he sincerely confronts and erases them, I might even join you as one of the faithful. Why not? I want Nigeria to work better for all Nigerians.

Thank you again and good bye.

 oa

From: usaafric...@googlegroups.com [mailto:usaafric...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Cornelius Hamelberg
Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2014 9:33 AM
To: usaafric...@googlegroups.com
Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Oga Ogugua Anunoby , so what if the APC under whatever leadershwins the next presidential election?

 

 

Guilty: The long-windedness is mine.

Mine is probably a lone voice in the wilderness. Anyway for the record, in the name of difference or diversity and freedom of opinion, I hope that this one gets through.

I notice that in your review of military governments and their strongmen, General Ojukwu does not come under your purview.  Of course that could be a separate issue altogether, if by military governments you mean all military governments including insurrectionist ones.

Here's a short list . I had feared that you were going to quote Wole Soyinka on Buhari. I'll tell you this: Alagba Soyinka is not my infallible authority and he too is entitled to all his opinions and even prejudices, if he has any.  Having lived so long with Igbos, in Nigeria, I know that when the Igbo man says "Hausa man" he means Muslim. I now that in that regard, he makes no distinction between Hausa and Fulani, for him North is North and Muslim is Muslim, no matter the tribe.  Just as with one of my close Yoruba Brethren, as far as he is concerned, I am not Cornelius Adebayo, and that's why he calls me " Menahem ". Not Menahem Adebayo, just Menahem (in Bangladesh every male Muslim has Mohammed as their first name - usually abbreviated Md.)

My good Sir, according to the doctors of political science, "Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely". You probably don't know personally (smile) - lack the experience to know that it takes some discipline to resist the temptation of corruption, when you are in power ( I mean real power). To resist the temptation which leads some to believe that the national treasury is part of their campaign treasure chest and that they can do with it as they please...

 I hope that this did not escape your notice: Nigeria: Opting Out of an Insurgency

One thing that you cannot accuse Muhammadu Buhari of is that unlike some democratically elected politicians holding high office, he Muhammad Buhari did not "illegally and generously line his pockets." Aren't you happy that for a change, such a son of the soil has that kind of moral backbone?  You misplace words when you ascribe a brutal role to those who carried out a bloodless coup.  He was no El-Sisi. If only he could have been given the time necessary to arrange and supervise an election!

Comfortably sitting on your high horse, your polemical response is merely a long indictment of military coups. I sympathise with some of your general critique.  I too have witnessed and lived through a few, including the one that took place in Nigeria on 31.12.1983. Commissioner of Police Mr. Efebo politely declined the offer of being military governor of Rivers State after that coup. (I should have known that something was cooking when mastermind coordinator Sani Abacha turned up in Port Harcourt a few weeks before that, and a week before the coup all the international telephone lines were cut, apart from the only one I had access to at Scanastra – I had thought that it was because of the Christmas traffic.)  Yes, there are tomes of critiques of military coups in Africa and other parts of the world. Flight-Lieutenant Jerry Rawlings too has left a controversial legacy (just ask Kwabena Akurang-Parry) - but sometimes, in the life of a nation, a man has to do what a man has to do.

"There is a tide in the affairs of men.
Which, taken at the flood, leads on to fortune;
Omitted, all the voyage of their life
Is bound in shallows and in miseries"

Nearly all that you say about our Muhammadu Buhari is about his past, some thirty years ago. He is surely not the same person that he was then- has had time to reflect and as a good Muslim to repent, regularly.  It's called "Tauba".  You seem to be less obsessive, less judgemental about the present political dispensation and that too is understandable since "absence never lets the heart grow fonder "this is true of many of us and you too, as you live and breathe not in Nigeria but in far away North America. I suppose that you are one of Dr. Chika Onyeani's good fellows who made the Goodluck Jonathan Appreciation Day such a resounding a success over there in the United States of America.  A similar manifestation in Nigeria would probably be a little less successful even if there would be more local sycophants who can see no evil, hear no evil or do no evil when it comes to praising their Goodluck Jonathan and his good government. So, if you are going to write about what's happening in Nigeria today please don't make my man the sole target of your wrath – even if what's beginning to look like a  witch-hunt all the anti-Goodluck Jonathan governors are impeached for whatever real or trumped up charges.  

 Talking about WAI - six months of arrears in salaries were paid to Rivers States Civil servants a week after Buhari-Idiagbon took over the reins of government; the mountains of garbage from which mango trees had taken root and were reaching for the sky, those mountains were cleared away in no time at all so that we could all breathe some fresh air again in the environs of Mile One Market in Port Harcourt. The formerly unpaid civil servants started turning up for work on time – this too was achieved without the threat of "brutal force", corporal punishment, imprisonment or threats of sending anyone to Jahannam.

 As yester day slips into becoming the past, I wonder whether or not you are as obsessive about forgiving of all that has occurred since Dr. Jonathan took office. My man, Muhammadu Buhari is criticising what he and many including me, see as some shortcomings and you say that he doesn't have a right to say anything - because he too is not Jesus Christ, is not the Messiah perhaps, oh son of man, could it be that your attitude is induced by the scripture which says, "Let him that is without sin, throw the first stone"?

 The Nigerian constitution may be holy - it may even be made holier by those who would like to amend some parts of it , maybe create a few more states, and thereby bring a few more powerful governors into being - governors who preferably should support the powers that be and not bite the hand that feeds them (like that Shakespeare line

"How sharper than a serpent's tooth it is

To have a thankless child"

 You lament the Nigerian Military overthrowing the democratically elected Shagari government, "as bad as the Shagari government might have been". Gaza's Hamas government was democratically elected too – bad as they can be - and it looks to me that the IDF would like to overthrow that government, right there in Gaza, it what increasingly looks like a bloody coup...

So, ( back to Nigeria)  what is so holy about a government that is "democratically elected "– if it evolves into a government of looters and a government that rigs what you call "democratic elections" – as indeed the NPN rigged the 1983 elections, called it "NPN Magic". I was there.  They were already dancing outside the Rivers State minister of agriculture Levy Braide's house, by 3 pm  on election day , by which time everybody had finished voting in Bakana – when it was time for counting the ballots they threw away the surplus votes that had been cast ( in excess of the registered voters) , into the river. You see, since the criminals could not be overthrown through the ballot box, the army came to the rescue. The same kind of criminals surely rigged future elections in Nigeria as a result of which my man fared less successfully than he would have if those elections had been completely free and fair - free, and without  blackouts or the disappearance of ballot boxes en route to the  counting houses or during the counting.   Goodluck Jonathan's predecessor, Umaru Yaradua confessed to the extent of the rigging in the election which brought him to power.

Talking about treason, what do you think about this Palestinian MP in the Israel Knesset? We are talking about a real democracy aren't we? Not a make belief one.

As Always,

Wishing the best for all Nigerians,

We Sweden

 

 

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the "USA-Africa Dialogue Series" moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin.
For current archives, visit http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
For previous archives, visit http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue-
unsub...@googlegroups.com
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the "USA-Africa Dialogue Series" moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin.
For current archives, visit http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
For previous archives, visit http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue-
unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the "USA-Africa Dialogue Series" moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin.
For current archives, visit http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
For previous archives, visit http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue-
unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the "USA-Africa Dialogue Series" moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin.
For current archives, visit http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
For previous archives, visit http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue-
unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the "USA-Africa Dialogue Series" moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin.
For current archives, visit http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
For previous archives, visit http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue-
unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

No comments:

Post a Comment

 
Vida de bombeiro Recipes Informatica Humor Jokes Mensagens Curiosity Saude Video Games Car Blog Animals Diario das Mensagens Eletronica Rei Jesus News Noticias da TV Artesanato Esportes Noticias Atuais Games Pets Career Religion Recreation Business Education Autos Academics Style Television Programming Motosport Humor News The Games Home Downs World News Internet Car Design Entertaimment Celebrities 1001 Games Doctor Pets Net Downs World Enter Jesus Variedade Mensagensr Android Rub Letras Dialogue cosmetics Genexus Car net Só Humor Curiosity Gifs Medical Female American Health Madeira Designer PPS Divertidas Estate Travel Estate Writing Computer Matilde Ocultos Matilde futebolcomnoticias girassol lettheworldturn topdigitalnet Bem amado enjohnny produceideas foodasticos cronicasdoimaginario downloadsdegraca compactandoletras newcuriosidades blogdoarmario arrozinhoii sonasol halfbakedtaters make-it-plain amatha