Yes of course WACO is in Texas, everybody knows that. I well remember the day, first the breaking news on CNN in which (check it out) the nation of Islam was the prime suspect - it was the same day that Mattias Gardell 's disputation for his doctoral thesis on the nation of Islam was held at the main auditorium at Stockholm University and I was there with Umar Harris (African American brutha). I asked Dr. Gardell two questions, one of which was directly linked to the breaking news. As you may know Dr. Gardell's Brother Jonas Gardell is a comedian and that probably, partly explains the focus of his answer to my second question – in essence that according to the nation of Islam, his exact words "The Black man is god!" and with some delight added, "That's what I call positive faith!" (Umar, an orthodox Sunni Muslim left after that)
There's the facticity of WACO, Texas to be contrasted with the hypothetical Waco in Kansa State, which like Sugarcandy Mountain may or may not exist in reality either before or after we die. That's the whole point of an hypothesis (imagine)
In the case of the real WACO in Texas - I said that Uncle Sam bombed the barn and just in case anyone takes that too literally and is wondering where/ what/ which barn, this is exactly what happened
On Friday, 8 August 2014 16:25:35 UTC+2, Kenneth Harrow wrote:
wait a minute, waco is in texas. doesn't work
anyway, to be serious, i'd at least begin by asking, what's their problem, and try to address it, resolve it. i believe the problem w gaza and israel lies in the stranglehold in which israel holds gaza, a virtual blockade, and the really deleterious conditions under which they are living.
ken
On 8/7/14 6:30 PM, Anunoby, Ogugua wrote:
..."What would happen - or, more directly , how would you feel if year after year a bunch of Christian terrorist nut heads in Waco, Kansas State kept on firing their primitive missiles (primitive by US military standards ) at the Pentagon?" .
ch
I refer you to your assertion below on the "pitfalls inherent in making analogies". It seems to me that it is a grossly misleading simplification to try to understand Hamas' resistance to Israeli occupation by referencing a hypothetical "Christian terrorist" group in Kansas State. Palestinian Arabs are under a brutal Israeli occupation and continue to lose their land, and lives. Your "Christian terrorist" are not, and never likely to.
Hamas has a legitimate case in the minds of many Palestinian people, and many non-Palestinian people paying attention. Al Qaeda is a violent group in search of a cause. Hamas is a political party with a military wing fighting the occupation of her homeland. Al Qaeda is nothing of the sort.
Hamas duly won an election that was forced on her. The proponents and some critical supporters of that election rejected the result. One would have thought that they would accept it and work with Hamas. Depending on their outcome, democratic elections in Palestine can be an encumbrance for some people and governments.
Hamas militancy is mostly a reaction to extant and continuing circumstance. Many people seem to have forgotten why Hamas came into existence. Remove the circumstance and enabling conditions and Hamas in its present form, will be surplus to requirement. Hamas uses the occupation to justify her existence. Israeli occupation has become Hamas' most effective recruitment tool. Many Israelis know this to be so.
The Jamaican Reggae Great, Peter Tosh, reminds us in one of his celebrated songs that people are crying for peace but he is crying for equal rights and justice. Mr. Tosh makes a good point with some exaggeration. He is not alone in crying for equal rights and justice.
oa
From: Cornelius Hamelberg [mailto:corne...@
gmail.com ]
Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2014 5:33 AM
To: usaafric...@googlegroups.com
Cc: Anunoby, Ogugua
Subject: Re: FW: USA Africa Dialogue Series - In Gaza, International Law Is Up in Flames
An aside: For better or worse, as we all know, there are the usual pitfalls inherent in making analogies, citing disparate situations, such as a fallacious, flawed, incorrect, and imperfect, some would say an untenable and useless analogy about Gaza - posing a question, as far-fetched as
"What would happen - or, more directly , how would you feel if year after year a bunch of Christian terrorist nut heads in Waco, Kansas State kept on firing their primitive missiles (primitive by US military standards ) at the Pentagon?" .
In the case of Waco, they (the Pentagon) bombed the barn.
How is the Hamas method different from al-Qaeda's , Sir ? ( By all means, please feel free to go ahead and justify terrorism, Boko Haram, violence and mass destruction, who do you think is or could be standing in your way?
Oga Ogugua,
O how I love these lines by Nigeria's Shakespeare (with a wink in his eyes)
Lakunle: That is what the stew pot said to the fire.
Have you no shame – at your age
Licking my bottom? But she was tickled
Just the same?
Sidi: The school teacher is full of stories
This morning. And now, if the lesson
Is over, may I have the pail?
On Monday, 4 August 2014 16:43:31 UTC+2, Anunoby, Ogugua wrote:
There seems to me to be a weakness with the World War 11 analogy. The Resistance then had friends, powerful friends. The Nazis were not defeated by the Resistance only but with the assistance of powerful friends like the United States that planned and led the invasion of Europe. The Palestinians have practically no friends. They are mostly on their own except for humanitarian aid that is compelled by the Israeli occupation, and sketchy military assistance.
Israel withdrew from Gaza nominally. Her iron-clad blockade of Gaza makes the withdrawal practically meaningless. Israel withdrew from most of the West Bank earlier. She has been seizing Palestinian land there since. Who is to say the same was not going to happen in Gaza.
Hamas may seem stupid attacking Israel today but there is an area parallel. The establishment of the state of Israel is believed to have been hastened by the armed attacks on British Administration and Army by Jewish terrorists. The "worst" of the attacks was the bombing in 1946 of the King David Hotel- headquarters of both the British administration and army in Palestine and Transjordan, by Jewish "terrorist" led at the time by Menachem Begin- a Polish Jew and a future prime minister of Israel.
While one may not support the desperate armed attacks of Hamas and other Palestinian resistance against Israel, one understands their despair and frustration with the worsening state of their daily existence in their homeland. We remember "Give me liberty or give me death" credited to the United States' Patrick Henry. For some Palestinian Arabs, death is becoming preferable to living under an Israeli occupation that arguably has no equivalent anywhere in the world in 2014. Hamas has said over and over again in current cease fire negotiations that she will not accept a ceasefire without a lifting of the Israeli blockade albeit supervised, on Gaza. That for me say everything.
oa
From: Anunoby, Ogugua
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2014 9:31 AM
To: usaafric...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: USA Africa Dialogue Series - In Gaza, International Law Is Up in Flames
There seems to me to be a weakness with the World War 11 analogy. The Resistance then had friends, powerful friends. The Nazis were not defeated by the Resistance only but with the assistance of powerful friends like the United States that planned and led the invasion of Europe. The Palestinians have practically no friends. They are mostly on their own except for humanitarian aid that is compelled by the Israeli occupation, and sketchy military assistance.
Israel withdrew from Gaza nominally. Her iron-clad blockade of Gaza makes the withdrawal practically meaningless. Israel withdrew from most of the West Bank earlier. She has been seizing Palestinian land there since. Who is to say the same was not going to happen in Gaza.
Hamas may seem stupid attacking Israel today but there is an area parallel. The establishment of the state of Israel is believed to have been hastened by the armed attacks on British Administration and Army by Jewish terrorists. The "worst" of the attacks was the bombing in 1946 of the King David Hotel- headquarters of both the British administration and army in Palestine and Transjordan, by Jewish "terrorist" led at the time by Menachem Begin- a Polish Jew and a future prime minister of Israel.
While one may not the desperate armed attacks of Hamas and other Palestinian resistance against Israel, one understands their despair and frustration with the worsening state of their daily existence in their homeland. We remember "Give me liberty or give me death" credited to the United States' Patrick Henry. For some Palestinian Arabs, death is becoming preferable to living under an Israeli occupation that arguably has no equivalent anywhere in the world in 2014. Hamas has said over and over again in current cease fire negotiations that she will not accept a ceasefire without a lifting of the Israeli blockade albeit supervised, on Gaza. That for me say everything.
oa
From: usaafric...@googlegroups.com [mailto:usaaf...@googlegroups.
com ] On Behalf Of kenneth harrow
Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2014 10:47 PM
To: usaafric...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - In Gaza, International Law Is Up in Flames
i do not believe israel is interested in land in gaza. it withdrew all its settlements from there 9 years ago.
what should hamas do? i don't know really, but firing rockets at an infinitely stronger enemy, knowing the kind of response it will provoke, seems very nihilistic and wrong to me.
i like to repeat this: the Resistance in world war 2 knew that if they assassinated a nazi, there would be a disproportionate response. the nazi policy was to exterminate villages in response to actions taken by the Resistance. so the Resistance had to calculate whether the price of an assassination would be too high.
that's what hamas had to have done. if they imagined it was worth it to have 2000 palestinians dead, i'd like to know for what??
i am sympathetic with their cause, but find th
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