RE: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Ancient Egyptian Pharaohs related to Ugandans?

according to Davidson and some others, the relationship was dialectical, from Nubia to Kemet, from Kemet to Nubia.

Respectfully,  Mario Fenyo

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From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com [usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com] on behalf of awori [awori.achoka@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, July 31, 2015 8:58 AM
To: USA Africa Dialogue Series
Cc: chambi78@yahoo.com
Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Ancient Egyptian Pharaohs related to Ugandans?

Not being a historian of any kind---I would not hazard to give a factual response to the views below. I however would like to raise issues that the author and others could consider. When you refer to ancient Egypt---what exactly do you mean? What was ancient ancient Nubia---what distinguishes ancient Nubia from the so called ancient Egypt?  Finally according to archaeological and scientific findings---what was the progression of the Nubia/Egyptian civilizations---was it from the source of the Nile--Northwards or the other way round? Answers to these questions might (probably) help answer some of the quetion.  

Awori   

On Monday, July 27, 2015 at 8:38:41 AM UTC+3, Chambi Chachage wrote:

Gloria Emeagwali et al., do you agree with Lawrence Mbogoni below?

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From: "'Mbogoni, Lawrence' mbog...@wpunj.edu [Wanazuoni]" <Wana...@yahoogroups.com>
To: "Wana...@yahoogroups.com" <Wana...@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, July 27, 2015 12:29 AM
Subject: RE: [Wanazuoni] Ancient Egyptian Pharaohs related to Ugandans?

 

Wanazuoni,

I am joining this dialogue rather late. But as a historian of Africa I feel bound to answer Mr. Makakala's concerns about the relationship of ancient Egypt/Nubia and the rest of Africa. Makakala begins with the view that:  "the current North Africa has been shaped mainly by forces which are foreign to the continent. Hence, the fact that the North has produced many scholars for centuries has more to do with the cultures that influenced it rather than [the rest of] Africa." The observation is true to a certain extent. For centuries ancient Egypt was a part of the Mediterranean world and Egypt influenced at the same time it was itself influenced parts of this region especially what is today Israel/Palestine and Greece. Ancient Egypt was an imperial power whose influence extended to the southern fringes of Assyria. Some evidence even suggests that one of the pharaohs conquered and briefly ruled ancient Greece. However, ancient Egypt's imperial endeavors beyond Nubia were thwarted partly by geographical factors and partly by resistance especially along the Red Sea toward Puntland (northern Somalia). Evidently, had ancient Egypt's imperial endeavors succeeded its influence would have been far afield south of Nubia. That said, as part of the Mediterranean world Egypt learnt as it taught neighboring peoples many things. Alexandria was for centuries a center of learning in the region that attracted especially ancient Greek scholars. Herodotus, reputed to be the father of history, deemed it necessary to visit Egypt and left us a very interesting account of his experience of the people and their achievements. In short, scholarly achievements in Egypt and North Africa were/are not just the result of influences from other cultures but are also indigenous to ancient Egypt.

 

Makakala wonders how ancient Egypt and Nubia could have developed so far ahead while none of that development did not leak to the rest of the continent. My response is had ancient Egypt's imperial endeavors southward succeeded its influences would have extended beyond Nubia. But even where Egyptian imperialism was extended, such as in the Levant, there is very little in evidence about Egyptian achievements. There are no pyramids in Lebanon, Israel or Jordan although these areas were once subject to Egyptian imperialism. As for evidence of permanent buildings from anywhere else in Africa comparable to Egypt's there is none except the stone citadels of ancient Zimbabwe. But by permanent buildings I believe Makakala is referring to the Egyptian pyramids. However, most Egyptians built and resided in mud structures. The three pyramids we see today were presumably funerary structures although most if not all pharaohs were buried in underground tombs (Pharaoh Cheops, the builder of the biggest of the threes was not even buried in it).

 

Furthermore, Makakala queries why Africa is considered the exception when it comes to diversity characteristic of Europe and Asia. I wonder who is guilty of his accusation since historians of Africa have highlighted its diversity in peoples, cultures, languages, climates, forms of worship, lifestyles, etc. for quite a while now. Any introductory text about Africa begins with its geographical, cultural, linguistic, and ethnic/racial diversities (Cf. textbooks by Robert July; Robert Collins). No historian worth the name would insist Africa to be uniform.

 

Moreover, I find it interesting that Makakala equates sedentary life with permanent buildings. Rather, it is the rise of agriculture that was the genesis of permanent human settlements not just in Africa but elsewhere in the world. Tending to crops required people to stay put in one place unlike tending to livestock, hence the difference between agricultural and pastoralist societies. Be that as it may, urbanization was not only unique to ancient Egypt on the continent. For an historical account of the process of urbanization in Africa south of the Sahara Makakala can refer to Catherine Vidrovitch's book entitled *Urbanization in Africa.*

Finally, it is puzzling how Makakala equates scripts (i.e. the written word) with sharing of knowledge, skills and innovations and hence development. The privileging of the written word and hence written records as the only sources of history was conclusively debunked by Jan Vansina in his book entitled *The Oral Tradion.* That said, if having a written language is that important, how does one explain the lack of development and political vulnerability of Arabs and the Chinese who, like the Africans, were easily conquered by Europeans despite having written languages of their own?

 

Kila la kheri.

 

Mbogoni

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