USA Africa Dialogue Series - FW: More on Ancient Egypt

Apologies for not replying before now. I was at the airport on my way to
Trinidad when this was sent. I am still here but decided to check messages today.


I want to emphasize that the numerous architectural wonders of Ethiopia, including
obelisks and underground chambers and about 500 magnificent churches should be included in
any discussion about ancient structures. Two months ago I stared at a 52- roomed complex
of Aksum, constructed initially around 1000 BCE.

We know also that the largest stone structure of antiquity was done in Ethiopia,
that is one of the famous obelisks. I hope you see the connection between the Washington Monument
and the original Northeast African obelisks that probably served as models.
I hope you see also the connection between the 13 storey Ethiopian obelisk with fake
windows and doors and the concept of the skyscraper. And if you think that the ancient Aksumites
were not Black Africans you are delusional and cannot be saved.

I notice no mention of Nubia's 200 pyramids. The eurocentrics usually downplay all these
structures and pretend they do not exist. Are you falling into the trap?

I should add also that Africans invented about a dozen writing systems and scripts so although
we don't want to glorify writing there is no need to pretend that these scripts did/do not exist.


I emphasize also that Egypt influenced the growth of other civilizations significantly so it
is the other way around. Aristotle and other Greek philosophers were honest enough to admit that.

Egypt would not have existed without the water resources and nutrients of the Blue Nile of Ethiopia.
that gave it 75 to 85% of its water and irrigation facility. Egypt itself contributed not even
a pint of water to the Nile.Ancient Burundi, Rwanda and Uganda supplied the other 15% approximately.

This is not to downplay Egypt's significance but to emphazise another aspect of its
very African identity.

Talk about an African crosswords- close to Ethiopia, Nubia (that probably preceded it)
and other Africa regions including the Congo whence it also got resources and even its deities.

Think about its deity Bes and focus on an interactive developmental model with
Africa at the center.

I guess that people hear about Great Zimbabwe but have not visited this complex that straddles over
hills and vales. You see a single row of stones that the Camera focuses on and you think that
you have seen it all. Wrong.

Think of Great Zimbabwe as one of about three hundred enclosures in
the Southern African region. Don't look at the tail of the elephant. Look at whole magnificent
creature. In fact you have to see Great Zimbabwe as part of a complex that flourished at Mapungubwe
South Africa. You have to link it with gold mining technology as well because that
nourished the civilization. We are yet to get the real starting point but I see Blombos as a
an important precedent- and that is about 100,000 BC.


By the way Zulu spears were effective
enough to demolish the British at the Battle of Isandlwana .Why honor and
celebrate Samurai Japanese spears and insult those of the
Zulus!



Professor Gloria Emeagwali
History Department
CCSU. New Britain. CT 06050
africahistory.net
GEproductionsllc.com
________________________________________
Professor Gloria Emeagwali
History Department
CCSU. New Britain. CT 06050
africahistory.net
vimeo.com/user5946750/videos
Gloria Emeagwali's Documentaries on
Africa and the African Diaspora
________________________________________
From: Chambi Chachage [chambi78@yahoo.com]
Sent: Monday, July 27, 2015 6:17 AM
To: Emeagwali, Gloria (History)
Subject: More on Ancient Egypt

Do you agree?

----- Forwarded Message -----
From: "Charles Makakala Jr makakalajr@yahoo.com [Wanazuoni]" <Wanazuoni@yahoogroups.com>
To: "Wanazuoni@yahoogroups.com" <Wanazuoni@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, July 27, 2015 1:04 PM
Subject: Re: [Wanazuoni] Ancient Egyptian Pharaohs related to Ugandans?


Glad to have a real historian joining us in this discussion.

It might be that Dr. Mbogoni is rather nice, but I feel like his post simply elaborates my assertions rather than critique them. For the most part at least.

1. By arguing that Egypt's stature was raised by its proximity to other civilisations I do not discount the Egyptians' own contributions to their development. Indeed, these must be numerous since the Pharaohs' Egypt was the apex of human development at its time. The point I wanted to make is that Egypt's geographic position at the cross-roads of three continents accelerated its rate of development. This is also true of all the other civilisations that developed in the Middle East or along the Mediterranean coast. Had SSA had similar geographic advantages it would have progressed very that fast too.

2. Even for a historian, the development gap between Egypt/Nubia vis-a-vis the rest of Africa must be considered significant. Rarely in history do we have such a disparity. If you take China, you will definitely find comparable societies somewhere nearby. But not for Egypt/Nubia. For me I attribute that mainly to the desert. Between modern day Khartoum and the heart of Nubia there are at least 300 km of desert which must have looked daunting except to the most determined of ancient travellers.

3. I am aware of the Great Zimbabwe ruins. While the ruins must be considered as a step forward development-wise, but, compared to where the rest of the world was at the time, we have to discount the Zimbabweans' work as infantile. First, 1200s AD is not that ancient in historical time scales. Second, considering the technology used (actually the lack thereof) that cannot be compared to other works. Even the ancient Egyptians knew how to use some kind of bricks and mortar. The Greeks and Romans took construction technology to a completely new level, a marvel even by modern standards. By the Ancient Greeks' standards Zimbabwe's ruins were simply a pile of stones. And that is how I consider them.

Moreover, by using 'permanent buildings' as a yardstick one is not claiming that everyone in those ancient civilisations was living in permanent buildings. We are simply comparing where those societies had reached development-wise. There are ongoing excavations in Nubia uncovering an ancient city today. As far as African history is concerned, that is a very rare activity. But one could go to Damascus- reputedly the oldest continuously inhabited city in the world- and uncover ancient buildings still. Similarly Jerusalem. Actually throughout that part of the Middle East. The lack of Pyramids in other parts has no bearing in this argument. Proofs such as the evidence for the Solomon's temple or ancient city of Petra are enough to show the use of highly advanced construction technologies which the whole of SSA lacked.

4. With respect to the non-uniformity of Africa I am glad that we are in agreement here. Afrocentrists tend to argue the opposite. I assert that the North and SS Africa are remarkably dissimilar. But when you zoom into SSA- despite some ethnic, political and cultural differences- one could argue that SSA looks very uniform even today.

5. I agree with Mbogoni's wordings of the agriculture issue. While I touched on the issue of agriculture, it is true that it is agricultural revolutions that first led to permanent settlements and not vice versa. However, while we have many rivers and lakes on the continent, the fact that we find no 'permanent' structures along those rivers must be disturbing. This suggests backwardness technology-wise. Moreover, when we talk of African urbanisation, are we still restricting ourselves to 'ancient' times? Because even I am aware that by the start of the 2nd millenium CE urbanisation had started in a number of places in SS Africa. Before that I am not sure...

6. About scripts- let me make it clear that scripts don't fight wars, they simply facilitate the efficient transfer of knowledge, including the 'art of war' (oral traditions notwithstanding.) While the Chinese and Arabs were colonised like Africans, they definitely were not as defenseless as we were. The Arabs (Muslims?) had conquered Spain, Byzantine Empire, and moved further north up to Vienna a while back. In the East, during Admiral Zheng He times China was a superpower which later took a wrong strategic turn (isolationism) leading to its subsequent decline. However, only the industrial revolution made it possible for the Europeans to overpower the Ottomans and the Chinese. The rest of Africa was simply caught in a terrible historical nightmare. While the Chinese and Arabs had guns, gunpowder and cannons, the great Zulu leader Shaka was still using spears to defend his people in 1820s. Unfortunately, he, like all of Africa, was on the wrong side of historical events.

It is always a pleasure to be talking history. 'History is so great(?) because it makes you cry', Mrs. Masumbuko once said. (Rf. Sarafina.)

Charles.



On Monday, July 27, 2015 12:30 AM, "'Mbogoni, Lawrence' mbogonil@wpunj.edu [Wanazuoni]" <Wanazuoni@yahoogroups.com> wrote:



Wanazuoni,

I am joining this dialogue rather late. But as a historian of Africa I feel bound to answer Mr. Makakala's concerns about the relationship of ancient Egypt/Nubia and the rest of Africa. Makakala begins with the view that: "the current North Africa has been shaped mainly by forces which are foreign to the continent. Hence, the fact that the North has produced many scholars for centuries has more to do with the cultures that influenced it rather than [the rest of] Africa." The observation is true to a certain extent. For centuries ancient Egypt was a part of the Mediterranean world and Egypt influenced at the same time it was itself influenced parts of this region especially what is today Israel/Palestine and Greece. Ancient Egypt was an imperial power whose influence extended to the southern fringes of Assyria. Some evidence even suggests that one of the pharaohs conquered and briefly ruled ancient Greece. However, ancient Egypt's imperial endeavors beyond Nubia were thwarted partly by geographical factors and partly by resistance especially along the Red Sea toward Puntland (northern Somalia). Evidently, had ancient Egypt's imperial endeavors succeeded its influence would have been far afield south of Nubia. That said, as part of the Mediterranean world Egypt learnt as it taught neighboring peoples many things. Alexandria was for centuries a center of learning in the region that attracted especially ancient Greek scholars. Herodotus, reputed to be the father of history, deemed it necessary to visit Egypt and left us a very interesting account of his experience of the people and their achievements. In short, scholarly achievements in Egypt and North Africa were/are not just the result of influences from other cultures but are also indigenous to ancient Egypt.

Makakala wonders how ancient Egypt and Nubia could have developed so far ahead while none of that development did not leak to the rest of the continent. My response is had ancient Egypt's imperial endeavors southward succeeded its influences would have extended beyond Nubia. But even where Egyptian imperialism was extended, such as in the Levant, there is very little in evidence about Egyptian achievements. There are no pyramids in Lebanon, Israel or Jordan although these areas were once subject to Egyptian imperialism. As for evidence of permanent buildings from anywhere else in Africa comparable to Egypt's there is none except the stone citadels of ancient Zimbabwe. But by permanent buildings I believe Makakala is referring to the Egyptian pyramids. However, most Egyptians built and resided in mud structures. The three pyramids we see today were presumably funerary structures although most if not all pharaohs were buried in underground tombs (Pharaoh Cheops, the builder of the biggest of the threes was not even buried in it).

Furthermore, Makakala queries why Africa is considered the exception when it comes to diversity characteristic of Europe and Asia. I wonder who is guilty of his accusation since historians of Africa have highlighted its diversity in peoples, cultures, languages, climates, forms of worship, lifestyles, etc. for quite a while now. Any introductory text about Africa begins with its geographical, cultural, linguistic, and ethnic/racial diversities (Cf. textbooks by Robert July; Robert Collins). No historian worth the name would insist Africa to be uniform.

Moreover, I find it interesting that Makakala equates sedentary life with permanent buildings. Rather, it is the rise of agriculture that was the genesis of permanent human settlements not just in Africa but elsewhere in the world. Tending to crops required people to stay put in one place unlike tending to livestock, hence the difference between agricultural and pastoralist societies. Be that as it may, urbanization was not only unique to ancient Egypt on the continent. For an historical account of the process of urbanization in Africa south of the Sahara Makakala can refer to Catherine Vidrovitch's book entitled *Urbanization in Africa.*

Finally, it is puzzling how Makakala equates scripts (i.e. the written word) with sharing of knowledge, skills and innovations and hence development. The privileging of the written word and hence written records as the only sources of history was conclusively debunked by Jan Vansina in his book entitled *The Oral Tradion.* That said, if having a written language is that important, how does one explain the lack of development and political vulnerability of Arabs and the Chinese who, like the Africans, were easily conquered by Europeans despite having written languages of their own?

Kila la kheri.

Mbogoni


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