This is a correction of an earlier posting.
Thank you BA.
In all honesty, there are times I want to believe that culture and tradition are being elevated to the status of the figurative albatross- a societal load that if not well managed, becomes a scourge. They have become lame excuses for people who do not want to make progress- move forward and ahead, or do not know that they should. You know what they say about enemies of progress, they are forever looking backward.
oa
From: Mobolaji Aluko [mailto:alukome@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, July 31, 2015 2:06 PM
To: Anunoby, Ogugua
Cc: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com; vincentotuonye@msn.com; africanworldforum@googlegroups.com; isholawilliams@yahoo.com; isholawilliams@gmail.com; naijaobserver@yahoogroups.com; nigerianworldforum@yahoogroups.com; OmoOdua@yahoogroups.com; NaijaPolitics@yahoogroups.com; nigerianID@yahoogroups.com
Subject: - Re: OBAMAM-NATION: Africa Can't Let Old Traditions Stand in the Way of Progress, Warns Obama
Ogugua Anunoby:
May your tribe increase.....very eloquently put.
Culture and traditions are unwritten Constitutions of a particular people. Like all Constitutions, they are not immutably cast in stone, and various of their "sections" are revised, updated or discarded as necessary as times change, and as times have always changed from time immemorial.
Finally, is there an African tradition or culture? No, there are traditions and culture in Africa - hundreds of thousands of them, as you multiply the number of distinct communities by the number of sociological considerations (life, living, death, dying, etc). The only real threat to traditions and cultures are the rise of multicultural/multi community modern states which necessarily have to construct some measure of homogenizing written Constitutions, whose aim must be to lift up the entire Community and promote amity and justice for for all.
And there you have it.
Bolaji Aluko
,
On Friday, July 31, 2015, Anunoby, Ogugua <AnunobyO@lincolnu.edu> wrote:
There was neither culture and tradition in the beginning. They are both societal constructs. Culture and tradition were developed over time based on a people's collective life and living experience and needs. They change/evolve albeit slowly. That many deny that they do or should, not does not alter this fact. The point is that they are never cast in stone. It is fact that some aspects/elements of culture and tradition do become outdated with time.
Ever thought of their essence? What is their purpose at the end of the day? Their value must be measured by how well they serve a people in changing times rather that how old they are. The case for them should be utility not heritage.
What is often times forgotten is that today's culture and tradition have been shaped by changes in yesterday's culture and tradition. Like a country's constitutions, they must be subject to change- amendment, repeal, and revision as necessary. Culture and tradition after all are the original constitution- they precede modern states' constitutions as the basis for communal existence and interaction. Is it any surprise therefore, that the more modern/industrialized a country becomes, the more it is constitution bound and the less it is culture and tradition bound. Increasingly, the constitution- codified consensual aspirations and body of laws is supplanting culture and tradition in more countries of the world. This it seems to me, is the irreversible way of the future.
Cultom are. They should not make people who they should not be, or need not be. They are not ordained by a supreme being in spite of the spurious claims that may be made for them. Some of their aspects/elements are grounded in some cases, on fear, ignorance, and superstition. This is the information/knowledge age. Societies develop culture and tradition to generally serve their members better collective interests that include justice, order, peace, and prosperity. When times change, some aspects/elements of culture and tradition may become superfluous- past their sell-by dates. They may even become problems more than they are solutions. Because they are usually creations of past for the most part, it is necessary that they be revisited from time to time and "updated". They should make a people's lives better not worse. They should not blind a people to necessary or urgent changes that must happen if their present and future are to be better than their past.
When aspects/elements of culture and tradition become encumbrance and hindrance, they will need to be recognized as such. They should be changed or discarded as necessary. In my considered opinion, culture and tradition can be dangerous. They may retard development and advancement if they are undiscerningly accorded the imperial status of untouchable rigidities.
President Obama made a lot of sense when he warned that Africa cannot (not should not) let culture and tradition stand in the way of progress. Not I might add, if Africa expects grants, loans, and other assistance from countries that have not let culture and tradition stand in the way of their progress. Obama was not telling anyone what they might not have known. It is a shame that it was necessary for Obama to publicly call the attention of Africa's leaders and their people to a reality that is self-evident.
From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com [mailto:usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Cornelius Hamelberg
Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2015 10:18 AM
To: USA Africa Dialogue Series
Cc: vincentotuonye@msn.com; africanworldforum@googlegroups.com; isholawilliams@yahoo.com; isholawilliams@gmail.com; naijaobserver@yahoogroups.com; nigerianworldforum@yahoogroups.com; USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com; OmoOdua@yahoogroups.com; NaijaPolitics@yahoogroups.com; nigerianID@yahoogroups.com; alukome@gmail.com
Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: OBAMAM-NATION: Africa Can't Let Old Traditions Stand in the Way of Progress, Warns Obama
"What custom wills, in all things should we do't,
The dust on antique time would lie unswept,
And mountainous error be too highly heapt
For truth to o'er-peer" (Coriolanus, Act 2, Scene 3)
VC Aluko,
Your prescriptive criteria present a challenge to finding accommodation or a way out, a possible exception that does not necessarily fulfil or violate your criteria. Ama not here to argue, just to make a few observations about respecting one's own and other cultures.
For example, the local culture of self-feeding by hand in lieu of knife and fork. Many a time I've heard the apology " please excuse me using my hand" and my response has always been , as I joined in ( with hand) in perfect Nigerian English, "no problem" . Eating with hand does not hurt self or others, to wit, the Saro people are prone to spelling spoon with the fingers of the right hand.
In Northern Nigeria where Islamic culture dominates it is the Sunnah to eat with the right hand ( and in appreciation and as a sign of thanksgiving to lick the fingers thereafter ) it is good to know that using the left hand is taboo, the left hand usually being reserved for performing clean ups, ablutions ( with water) after visiting the toilet.
It would seem that to accommodate homosexual practice as sub-culture behaviour is OK as long as such a minority culture does not threaten the rest of the community or violate any of your rules of engagement made in the community's self-interest. The general fear is that such a sub-culture could spread and if that sub-culture is glorified could in time even displace the erstwhile dominant heterosexual culture – it's also scientifically suggested that in some of the most vociferous homophobes lurks the suspicion that they themselves are latent homosexuals as in "methinks thou doth protest too much…"
With regard to the "accommodation" many of my homosexual friends tell me that society has to pass beyond tolerance to acceptance - such a change of course is a process and that acceptance is slowly but surely on its way, when you observe that same-sex marriage won the day at Ireland's referendum, to many people's surprise, Ireland at least in our imagination, being the bastion of Roman Catholicism even if His Holiness the Pope is still lagging behind the times , with the dictates of Church doctrine which so far continues to define marriage ( holy matrimony) as a special relationship between a man and a wo-man…
Throughout my sojourn in Nigeria the main objection to even the most tolerant form of Christianity (Roman Catholicism, the inquisition notwithstanding) was that it should not interfere with local culture and the emphasis was that it should not interfere with the ancient practice of Solomonic polygamy…
More troubling than polygamy is the phenomenon of witchcraft and the victimisation of alleged witches. This is one of the thorny issues that has to be addressed, not least, by the government….
Over here in Sweden they are still making a lot of noise about FGM . I don't think that it will become a widespread practice in Sweden any time soon…
It's true; Rome wasn't built in a day. I wish that I could add
"And there you have it"
Cornelius,
On Thursday, 30 July 2015 03:45:40 UTC+2, Bolaji Aluko wrote:
Ken Asagwara:
Let me refine my earlier tests:
(1). Does a particular tradition victimize an individual and/or community, or destroy the environment? Then discard it. (I have in mind here any tradition that hurts or destroys vulnerable or defenseless individuals or things, particularly infants, children, wome, the old and the poor.)
(2). Does a particular tradition promote the happiness of an individual and/or community, or protect the environment? Then retain it. (I have in mind here the promotion of self-esteem as a human being or living thing, or the sustenance of life).
(3). If a particular tradition is neutral to victimization or happiness, then retain it - it serves a historical and cultural differentiation purpose - but do not ostracise those who discard it if they consider it inconvenient. However, those who discard it must be prepared to forgo any benefits that accrue to those who practice it. (I have in mind here many monarchy, marriage, birth, death, elder-respect, etc traditions here.)
At the end of the day, culture and tradition are what an aggregation of individuals in any one community have agreed to do. If however they interact with other individuals from other communities, including allowing them into their midst eg to even give a speech - then they must be open to suggestions. Only conquerors IMPOSE their tradition and culture on others. (I do not believe that Obama came to Africa as a conqueror, but as an "Omowale" - a son/child returned home.)
And there you have it.
Bolaji Aluko
On Thursday, July 30, 2015, Vin Otuonye <vincent...@msn.com> wrote:
Prince KC:
There is nothing wrong in listening to those from the outside. A cultural practice that hurt an individual, no matter how lowly placed that individual is in society should be done away with.
Vin Cool Breeze Otuonye
From: Ken.Asagwara@gov.mb.ca
To: africanworldforum@googlegroups.com; isholawilliams@yahoo.com; isholawilliams@gmail.com
CC: naijaevent@googlegroups.com; NaijaObserver@yahoogroups.com; alukome@gmail.com; nigerianworldforum@yahoogroups.com; naijapolitics@yahoogroups.com; nigerianID@yahoogroups.com; OmoOdua@yahoogroups.com; nidan-group@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Re: [africanworldforum] OBAMAM-NATION: Africa Can't Let Old Traditions Stand in the Way of Progress, Warns Obama
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2015 21:44:43 +0000
General I. Williams:
I believe you and me are on the same wave length on this issue. Culture is relative; and belief systems and values that work in one society may not work or be acceptable in another. Any changes that may occur in any culture should not be imposed from outside.
Cheers.
Mazi KC Prince Asagwara
From: africanworldforum@googlegroups.com [mailto:africanworldforum@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Ishola Williams
Sent: July-29-15 11:35 AM
To: africanworldforum@googlegroups.com
Cc: NaijaEvent@googlegroups.com; NaijaObserver@yahoogroups.com; Mobolaji Aluko; nigerianworldforum@yahoogroups.com; naijapolitics@yahoogroups.com; nigerianid@yahoogroups.com; OmoOdua; NiDAN
Subject: Re: [africanworldforum] OBAMAM-NATION: Africa Can't Let Old Traditions Stand in the Way of Progress, Warns Obama
KA,I stand by my own view that it is not an outsiders business to tell me which culture I should let go just as it is not my business which of their culture they should let go.There is no world culture and that is why there are different cultural practices.iw
On Wed, Jul 29, 2015 at 11:38 AM, Asagwara, Ken (EAL) <Ken.Asagwara@gov.mb.ca> wrote:
Bolaji Aluko, VC:
While it may be true that the four "tests" you outlined are relevant when evaluating the usefulness of any culture(s) in contemporary times, I believe among the African cultures that President Obama would want let go, for instance, is the culture of Polygamy. Polygamy as an African cultural institution served and continues to serve useful purposes from time immemorial.
In place of an African culture of Polygamy, President Obama would want Africans to accept the western world contemporary times culture of Homo Sexualism and Lesbianism which African countries and many other countries of the world consider abnormal behavior, un-natural in human societies, even in the wild kingdom. How can any reasonable person advocate that Africans abandon their old tradition of Polygamy which has never stood in the way of progress and if anything, had fostered progress in most African societies for the anathema called Homo Sexual and Lesbians, a way of life that both in the short and long run will destroy the institution of marriage and family as God/Nature created it?
I do not know, if it is obvious to you and the other readers that among the old African traditions that President Obama would want done away with is the African culture that rejects Homo-Sexualism and Lesbianism. For him, in order that it be that African countries have joined the modern and contemporary times, they should accept western world's disgusting and abominable culture of man and man marriage and woman and woman marriage. Mbanu; that can't be.
Cheers.
Mazi KC Prince Asagwara
From: africanworldforum@googlegroups.com [mailto:africanworldforum@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mobolaji Aluko
Sent: July-29-15 9:24 AM
To: africanworldforum@googlegroups.com
Cc: nigerianworldforum@yahoogroups.com; naijapolitics@yahoogroups.com; nigerianid@yahoogroups.com; OmoOdua; NiDAN
Subject: [africanworldforum] OBAMAM-NATION: Africa Can't Let Old Traditions Stand in the Way of Progress, Warns Obama
Joe Onuoha:
May your tribe increase!
Obama is indeed right: tradition, whether African, or Asian, or European, or American, should not be used to foster ignorance, pain and wickedness of any sort.
The tests are simple:
(1). First, there is no BLANKET tradition: rather, it is a series of beliefs and practices, each of which can be questioned for current relevance, commensurate with a balance between the rights and responsibilities of the INDIVIDUAL and his/her COMMUNITY.
(2). So -.Does the PARTICULAR tradition make the target individual human being - man, woman, old, young, rich, poor, able-bodied, not-so-able, etc - happy? If not, re-evaluate it to ensure same.
(2) Does the PARTICULAR tradition THREATEN the survival of the target Community, including its amity with surrounding Communities? If it does, re-evaluate same to avoid same.
(3). Finally, does the PARTICULAR tradition threaten the ENVIRONMENT - land, water and air - in which the Community lives? If Yes, then re-evaluate it.
By the way, I have stayed away here from spiritual or religious matters, because any religion that makes its adherents or Community unhappy, or threatens the Environment, is not worth adhering to.
And there you have it.
Bolaji Aluko
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2015 13:07:50 +0000
From: africanworldforum@googlegroups.com
To: africanworldforum@googlegroups.com; nigerianworldforum@yahoogroups.com; naijapolitics@yahoogroups.com; talkhard@yahoogroup.com
Subject: Re: [africanworldforum] Africa Can't Let Old Traditions Stand in the Way of Progress, Warns Obama
Gen Williams et al:
Obama is right: a nation that allows culture handed down to them from people that never saw how the future would look like is doomed to remain down. Such is the case with African countries. Culture is something one continuously assesses and re-assesses and in doing so, pick and sustain what is important for the current generation and put in museum, what is no longer needed. Africans have remained tied to the culture (most of which are wicked, sexist, degrading and dehumanizing!)
With regard to fighting acculturation:It is pretty late to fight the "acculturation", wouldn't you say? Here is my point:
- You send your children away to their schools (and ofcourse loose them forever! A great loss to a nation!) because you refuse to build and support good schools in your country. The few you have are loaded with teachers who refuse to teach and who demand sex, money and other favors from the gullible students
- You take your country's money and dump in their banks while your people suffer.
- You buy just about everything and anything you use or eat from them. Farming, etc is no longer appealing and is in fact lowly-rated
- You reject the blackness of your skin and thus buy Ambi, Satina, etc (they made for you) to destroy your skin.
- You put in your churches symbols that show black as bad and white as good (and in doing so, destroy the psychic of your current and future generations of your people who subsequently grow with inferiority complex!)
- You travel to them to get medical treatment because out of pure wickedness, ignorance and stupidity, you dump billions of your money in their banks instead of using the money to build good hospitals (as they have done!). You actually hail and glamorize your leaders who announced how much public they just put in their banks and address them as "His Excellency"!
- You no longer want to use Naira for transactions within your country, you prefer Dollars, Pounds, soon Yen, etc! A pure rejection of self which has severe ramifications for the people and for a nation!
- Look at the names you give to your children: how many of them represent "you"?
So, what acculturation are you now fighting for? You might as well "join them since you cannot fight them! You do not even fight due to incapacitation and cowardice! For if you fight, you will demonstrate against your people (your leaders in government, business, religion, academia, etc) who ignore their responsibilities to their people and the country. You will not allow them to drive down on their exotic cars, parade their mansions or even seat on your head table! You will not even accept their so-called "donations" (which will actually make some of them re-think!) But out of your gullibility, greed and foolishness, you take such money. It is hard to eat your cake and have it back. Africans will either use their brains to think so as to learn or continue to enslave themselves, while waiting for god/God to come do for them what they ought to do for themselves! Until they do, fighting the "acculturation" is a waste of time!
Joe.
P/S. From: batokkinc <batokkinc@att.net>
To: africanworldforum@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2015 7:12 AM
Subject: Re: [africanworldforum] Africa Can't Let Old Traditions Stand in the Way of Progress, Warns Obama
Thanks, General
Sent from my MetroPCS 4G Android Device
-------- Original message --------
From: 'ishola williams' via AfricanWorldForum
Date:07/28/2015 12:50 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: africanworldforum@googlegroups.com,Cameroon Politics ,Njong Cultural Group ,Ambasbay CamerGoogleGroup
Subject: Re: [africanworldforum] Africa Can't Let Old Traditions Stand in the Way of Progress, Warns ObamaWho determines the old traditions that we must let go?He or we Resident- Africans?Have we not acculturated enough?Are we going to be follow-follow all our lives?
When do religious beliefs become subsumed under Human Rughts?
There is a LIMIT.iw
_________________
Ishola Williams
Maj-Gen. (Rtd)Exec Sec
PANAFSTRAG
08056210960
website: www.panafstrag.org
On Tuesday, July 28, 2015 11:50 AM, 'Pa Fru Ndeh' via AfricanWorldForum <africanworldforum@googlegroups.com> wrote:
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