RE: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: OBAMAM-NATION: Africa Can’t Let Old Traditions Stand in the Way of Progress, Warns Obama

It would seem that to accommodate homosexual practice as long as sub-culture behaviour is OK as long as such a minority culture does not threaten the rest of the community or violate any of your rules of engagement made in the community's self-interest. The general fear is that such a sub-culture could spread and if that sub-culture is glorified, could in time even displace the erstwhile dominant heterosexual culture.
With regard to 'accommodation' many of my homosexual friends tell me that society has to pass beyond tolerance to acceptance ...- Cornelius Hamelberg.
 
Long before our contacts with Euro-Arab's world we have languages in Africa. In the Yoruba language in which I grew up, every part of human body was biologically and physiologically given name and functions. Therefore, we have a name for a female and a male person, a woman and a man, a husband and a wife, a father and a mother, and a girl and a boy. What distinguishes a girl from a boy at birth is the sexual organ in between the legs. From the time immemorial marriages in Africa have been between female and male persons and means to procreate or regenerate. For Africans, children are insurance against old age. Marriage in the good old days in Africa involved relatives of both the bride and bridegroom who set up joint intermediaries to ascertain that the would be husband and wife are from good families. Before the pollution of Africa by the slave traders, virginity stood for purity and it was a thing of pride amongst young women. A woman who on her wedding night got deflowered by her husband usually received praises from people. As a sign of appreciation, the husband's family would take a full pack of matches, a full keg of palm-wine and the blood-stained white cloth used for deflowering to the bride parent's home. That depicts that the child was well-trained. The bride's parents with shoulders high would receive the gift and thus call for celebration. Pre-slavery era in Africa was a period when males and females were brought up with the knowledge that sexual organs were not ferrous metals that would oxidise if not used regularly. Sexual intercourse was restricted within marriage between a male and a female. Although there was polygamy, there were no prostitutes as women preferred to share a husband than being unmarried.

 

Whereas in Yoruba language, in which I was brought up, there are equivalent words in Yoruba for man, woman, boy, girl, male, female, husband, wife, penis and vagina, there are no equivalent words for homosexual and lesbian as these words were recently introduced into Africa through the influence of Europe and America. Descriptively, homosexual and lesbian will be translated into Yoruba language as ADÓFÙRÒ and AL'OKÓ L'ÒBÒ respectively. In that wise, ADÓFÙRO` is named an anus-fucker while AL'OKÓ-L'ÒBÒ who is thought to possess both penis and vagina is named a self-fucker or masturbator. Contrary to the Yoruba translation of the words homosexual and lesbian, it is a taboo to talk about what happens in same-sex intercourse which is vaguely reduced to loving anyone you want. The anus, homosexuals say, is not inferior to vagina as a receptor for the male penis, implying that anus is equal to vagina. Thus, they conclude that homosexuality is as natural as heterosexuality. Yet, biologically and physiologically, there is difference between the tissue construction of the male urethra and the rectum and the female vagina. While the female vagina is constructed of tough plate-like cells that resist rupture and infectious agents, and naturally designed to withstand the motions of penis penetration and child-birth, the male urethra and rectum are constructed primarily of columnar cells which tear or rupture easily. The rectal mucosa and its supporting tissues are relatively fragile and designed for excretory matters and not for intrusive activity with the penis in particular. During normal vaginal intercourse, the male ejaculates into the female vagina, whereby the sperm swim through the woman's cervical fluid into the blood-lined wall of the cervix, unless the penis is enveloped in a condom. For a male's ejaculation into the rectum of another male (or female) the sperm will be deposited into the rectum if not prevented with condom. Even without anal intercourse, too-frequent normal penis-vaginal intercourse to which prostitutes subject themselves becomes abnormal sex because of perineum-trauma involved. The perineum is the area in front of the anus extending to the vulva in the female and to the scrotum in the male.

 

Whatever religious and cultural/traditional laws say about marriage, family and sexual behaviours are not essential while discussing homosexual/lesbian practice but the biological and physiological functions of different parts of the human body. The liberal view, as expressed by Cornelius Hamelberg, is that two adult-males should be free to marry and engage in anal intercourse as long as no harm is caused to other people. The act is glorified as sexual preference. Should a man who stands on his head to walk instead of his feet be appraised for his *walking preference?* Resentment against homosexuality is not because, as Cornelius Hamelberg put it, the dominant heterosexual fear being eventually displaced by the homosexuals but because it is an acquired behaviour against normal natural law. In 1993, Dean Harmer announced that he has analysed the genetics of male homosexuality and found a particular region on the X-Chromosome that seemed to correlate with being homosexual. That implied that same sex sexual attraction is a function of genes and therefore natural. The scientific world was excited that time because if one could locate a gene that causes homosexuality, one should be able to locate genes that cause stealing, fraud etc. in humans. Many prisoners in the world would have to be released because the crimes for which they were convicted were genetically and naturally induced. Harmer's finding could not withstand the test of time because every human being is a product of heterosexuality including the self-acclaimed homosexual. Since an acclaimed homosexual has a father and a mother, from where then has a homosexual inherited his *homo gene*? If the *homo gene* is not inherited, then, the gene causing a person to be homosexual must have been deformed and consequently homosexuality must be abnormal. The homosexual world did not want to see themselves as containing deformed genes.

 

Before Barack Obama can come to Africa as a Homosexual Apostle, he should first repeal the Defence of Marriage Act passed by the US Congress and signed into law by President Bill Clinton on 1st September 1996. By that Act, the US Government defines marriage as a legal union between one man and one woman. It should be noted that Section 3 of the Defence of Marriage Act does not recognise same-sex marriage for all federal purposes, which include family insurance benefits for employees of the US Government, Survivors' benefits from Social Security, and joint tax fillings. At a time when Africans are dying because of poverty (impoverishment), lack of education, lack of health care, lack of potable water, mass unemployment, bad housing and sanitation, it is absurd to elevate same-sex marriage as Africa's foremost fundamental human right worth propagating and fighting for.  

 

 

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Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2015 08:17:48 -0700
From: corneliushamelberg@gmail.com
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
CC: vincentotuonye@msn.com; africanworldforum@googlegroups.com; isholawilliams@yahoo.com; isholawilliams@gmail.com; naijaobserver@yahoogroups.com; nigerianworldforum@yahoogroups.com; USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com; OmoOdua@yahoogroups.com; NaijaPolitics@yahoogroups.com; nigerianID@yahoogroups.com; alukome@gmail.com
Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: OBAMAM-NATION: Africa Can't Let Old Traditions Stand in the Way of Progress, Warns Obama

"What custom wills, in all things should we do't,
The dust on antique time would lie unswept,
And mountainous error be too highly heapt
For truth to o'er-peer" (Coriolanus, Act 2, Scene 3)
VC Aluko,
Your prescriptive criteria present a challenge to finding accommodation or a way out, a possible exception that does not necessarily fulfil or violate your criteria. Ama not here to argue, just to make a few observations about respecting one's own and other cultures.
 For example, the local culture of self-feeding by hand in lieu of knife and fork.  Many a time I've heard the apology " please excuse me using my hand"  and my response has always been , as I joined in ( with hand)  in perfect Nigerian English, "no problem" . Eating with hand does not hurt self or others, to wit, the Saro people are prone to spelling spoon with the fingers of the right hand.
 In  Northern Nigeria where  Islamic culture dominates  it is the Sunnah to eat with the right hand ( and in appreciation and  as a sign of thanksgiving  to lick the fingers thereafter ) it is good to know that using the left hand is taboo, the left hand usually being reserved  for performing clean ups, ablutions  ( with water)  after visiting the toilet.
 It would seem that to accommodate homosexual practice as sub-culture behaviour is OK as long as such a minority culture does not threaten the rest of the community or violate any of your rules of engagement made in the community's self-interest. The general fear is that such a sub-culture could spread and if that sub-culture is glorified could in time even displace the erstwhile dominant heterosexual culture  – it's also scientifically suggested  that  in some of the most vociferous homophobes  lurks the suspicion that they themselves  are latent homosexuals as in "methinks thou doth protest too much…"
With regard to the "accommodation" many of my homosexual friends tell me that society has to pass beyond tolerance to acceptance  -  such a change of course is a process and that acceptance is slowly but surely on its way, when you observe  that  same-sex marriage won the day at Ireland's referendum, to many people's surprise, Ireland  at least in our imagination, being the bastion of Roman Catholicism even if  His Holiness the Pope is still lagging behind the times , with the dictates of Church doctrine which so far continues to define  marriage ( holy matrimony)  as  a special relationship  between  a man and a wo-man…
Throughout my sojourn in Nigeria the main objection to even the most tolerant form of Christianity (Roman Catholicism, the inquisition notwithstanding) was that it should not interfere with local culture and the emphasis was that it should not interfere with the ancient practice of Solomonic polygamy…
More troubling than polygamy is the phenomenon of witchcraft and the victimisation of alleged witches. This is one of the thorny issues that has to be addressed, not least, by the government….
Over here in Sweden they are still making a lot of noise about FGM . I don't think that it will become a widespread practice in Sweden any time soon…
It's true; Rome wasn't built in a day. I wish that I could add
 "And there you have it"
Cornelius,
We Sweden
 


On Thursday, 30 July 2015 03:45:40 UTC+2, Bolaji Aluko wrote:

Ken Asagwara:

Let me refine my earlier tests:

(1). Does a particular tradition victimize an individual and/or community, or destroy the environment?  Then discard it.  (I have in mind here any tradition that hurts or destroys vulnerable or defenseless individuals or things, particularly infants, children, wome, the old and the poor.)

(2). Does a particular tradition promote the happiness of an individual and/or community, or protect the environment?  Then retain it. (I have in mind here the promotion of self-esteem as a human being or living thing, or the sustenance of life).

(3). If a particular tradition is neutral to victimization or happiness, then retain it - it serves a historical and cultural differentiation purpose - but do not ostracise those who discard it if they consider it inconvenient.  However, those who discard it must be prepared to forgo any benefits that accrue to those who practice it.  (I have in mind here many monarchy, marriage, birth, death, elder-respect, etc traditions here.)

At the end of the day, culture and tradition are what an aggregation of individuals in any one community have agreed to do.  If however they interact with other individuals from other communities, including allowing them into their midst eg to even give a speech - then they must be open to suggestions.  Only conquerors IMPOSE their tradition and culture on others.  (I do not believe that Obama came to Africa as a conqueror, but as an "Omowale"  - a son/child returned home.)

And there you have it.

Bolaji Aluko

On Thursday, July 30, 2015, Vin Otuonye <vincent...@msn.com> wrote:

Prince KC:
 
There is nothing wrong in listening to those from the outside. A cultural practice that hurt an individual, no matter how lowly placed that individual is in society should be done away with.
 
Vin Cool Breeze Otuonye
 

---

From: Ken.Asagwara@gov.mb.ca
To: africanworldforum@googlegroups.com; isholawilliams@yahoo.com; isholawilliams@gmail.com
CC: naijaevent@googlegroups.com; NaijaObserver@yahoogroups.com; alukome@gmail.com; nigerianworldforum@yahoogroups.com; naijapolitics@yahoogroups.com; nigerianID@yahoogroups.com; OmoOdua@yahoogroups.com; nidan-group@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Re: [africanworldforum] OBAMAM-NATION: Africa Can't Let Old Traditions Stand in the Way of Progress, Warns Obama
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2015 21:44:43 +0000

General I. Williams:

 

I believe you and me are on the same wave length on this issue. Culture is relative; and belief systems and values that work in one society may not work or be acceptable in another. Any changes that may occur in any culture should not be imposed from outside.

 

Cheers.

 

Mazi KC Prince Asagwara

 

From: africanworldforum@googlegroups.com [mailto:africanworldforum@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Ishola Williams
Sent: July-29-15 11:35 AM
To: africanworldforum@googlegroups.com
Cc: NaijaEvent@googlegroups.com; NaijaObserver@yahoogroups.com; Mobolaji Aluko; nigerianworldforum@yahoogroups.com; naijapolitics@yahoogroups.com; nigerianid@yahoogroups.com; OmoOdua; NiDAN
Subject: Re: [africanworldforum] OBAMAM-NATION: Africa Can't Let Old Traditions Stand in the Way of Progress, Warns Obama

 

KA,I stand by my own view that it is not an outsiders business to tell me which culture I should let go just as it is not my business which of their culture they should let go.There is no world culture and that is why there are different cultural practices.iw

 

 

On Wed, Jul 29, 2015 at 11:38 AM, Asagwara, Ken (EAL) <Ken.Asagwara@gov.mb.ca> wrote:

Bolaji Aluko, VC: 

While it may be true that the four "tests" you outlined are relevant when evaluating the usefulness of any culture(s) in contemporary times, I believe among the African cultures that President Obama would want let go, for instance, is the culture of Polygamy. Polygamy as an African cultural institution served and continues to serve useful purposes from time immemorial.  

In place of an African culture of Polygamy, President Obama would want Africans to accept the western world contemporary times culture of Homo Sexualism and Lesbianism which African countries and many other countries of the world consider abnormal behavior, un-natural in human societies, even in the wild kingdom. How can any reasonable person advocate that Africans abandon their old tradition of Polygamy which has never stood in the way of progress and if anything, had fostered progress in most African societies for the anathema called Homo Sexual and Lesbians, a way of life that both in the short and long run will destroy the institution of marriage and family as God/Nature created it?  

I do not know, if it is obvious to you and the other readers that among the old African traditions that President Obama would want done away with is the African culture that rejects Homo-Sexualism and Lesbianism. For him, in order that it be that African countries have joined the modern and contemporary times, they should accept western world's disgusting and abominable culture of man and man marriage and woman and woman marriage. Mbanu; that can't be. 

Cheers. 

Mazi KC Prince Asagwara

 

From: africanworldforum@googlegroups.com [mailto:africanworldforum@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mobolaji Aluko
Sent: July-29-15 9:24 AM
To: africanworldforum@googlegroups.com
Cc: nigerianworldforum@yahoogroups.com; naijapolitics@yahoogroups.com; nigerianid@yahoogroups.com; OmoOdua; NiDAN
Subject: [africanworldforum] OBAMAM-NATION: Africa Can't Let Old Traditions Stand in the Way of Progress, Warns Obama

Joe Onuoha: 

May your tribe increase! 

Obama is indeed right:  tradition, whether African, or Asian, or European, or American, should not be used to foster ignorance, pain and  wickedness of any sort. 

The tests are simple: 

(1). First, there is no BLANKET tradition:  rather, it is a series of beliefs and practices, each of which can be questioned for current relevance, commensurate with a balance between the rights and responsibilities of the INDIVIDUAL and his/her COMMUNITY. 

(2). So -.Does the PARTICULAR tradition make the target individual human being - man, woman, old, young, rich, poor, able-bodied, not-so-able, etc - happy?  If not, re-evaluate it to ensure same. 

(2) Does the PARTICULAR tradition THREATEN the survival of the target Community, including its amity with surrounding Communities?  If it does, re-evaluate same to avoid same. 

(3). Finally, does the PARTICULAR tradition threaten the ENVIRONMENT - land, water and air - in which the Community lives?  If Yes, then re-evaluate it. 

By the way, I have stayed away here from spiritual or religious matters, because any religion that makes its adherents or Community unhappy, or threatens the Environment, is not worth adhering to. 

And there you have it. 

Bolaji Aluko

 

 

 

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Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2015 13:07:50 +0000
From: africanworldforum@googlegroups.com
To: africanworldforum@googlegroups.com; nigerianworldforum@yahoogroups.com; naijapolitics@yahoogroups.com; talkhard@yahoogroup.com
Subject: Re: [africanworldforum] Africa Can't Let Old Traditions Stand in the Way of Progress, Warns Obama

 

Gen Williams et al:

 

Obama is right: a nation that allows culture handed down to them from people that never saw how the future would look like is doomed to remain down. Such is the case with African countries. Culture is something one continuously assesses and re-assesses and in doing so, pick and sustain what is important for the current generation and put in museum, what is no longer needed. Africans have remained tied to the culture (most of which are wicked, sexist, degrading and dehumanizing!)

 

With regard to fighting acculturation:It is pretty late to fight the "acculturation", wouldn't you say?  Here is my point:

• You send your children away to their schools (and ofcourse loose them forever! A great loss to a nation!) because you refuse to build and support good schools in your country. The few you have are loaded with teachers who refuse to teach and who demand sex, money and other favors from the gullible students  

• You take your country's money and dump in their banks while your people suffer.

• You buy just about everything and anything you use or eat from them. Farming, etc is no longer appealing and is in fact lowly-rated

• You reject the blackness of your skin and thus buy Ambi, Satina, etc (they made for you) to destroy your skin.

• You put in your churches symbols that show black as bad and white as good (and in doing so, destroy the psychic of your current and future generations of your people who subsequently grow with inferiority complex!)

• You travel to them to get medical treatment because out of pure wickedness, ignorance and stupidity, you dump billions of your money in their banks instead of using the money to build good hospitals (as they have done!). You actually hail and glamorize your leaders who announced how much public they just put in their banks and address them as "His Excellency"!

• You no longer want to use Naira for transactions within your country, you prefer Dollars, Pounds, soon Yen, etc! A pure rejection of self which has severe ramifications for the people and for a nation! 

• Look at the names you give to your children: how many of them represent "you"?

So, what acculturation are you now fighting for? You might as well "join them since you cannot fight them! You do not even fight due to incapacitation and cowardice! For if you fight, you will demonstrate against your people (your leaders in government, business, religion, academia, etc) who ignore their responsibilities to their people and the country. You will not allow them to drive down on their exotic cars, parade their mansions or even seat on your head table! You will not even accept their so-called "donations" (which will actually make some of them re-think!) But out of your gullibility, greed and foolishness, you take such money. It is hard to eat your cake and have it back. Africans will either use their brains to think so as to learn or continue to enslave themselves, while waiting for god/God to come do for them what they ought to do for themselves! Until they do, fighting the "acculturation" is a waste of time!

 

Joe.

 

 

---

 

 

P/S.    From: batokkinc <batokkinc@att.net>
To: africanworldforum@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2015 7:12 AM
Subject: Re: [africanworldforum] Africa Can't Let Old Traditions Stand in the Way of Progress, Warns Obama
 

 

Thanks,  General

 

 

Sent from my MetroPCS 4G Android Device

-------- Original message --------
From: 'ishola williams' via AfricanWorldForum
Date:07/28/2015 12:50 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: africanworldforum@googlegroups.com,Cameroon Politics ,Njong Cultural Group ,Ambasbay CamerGoogleGroup
Subject: Re: [africanworldforum] Africa Can't Let Old Traditions Stand in the Way of Progress, Warns Obama

Who determines the old traditions that we must let go?He or we Resident- Africans?Have we not acculturated enough?Are we going to be follow-follow all our lives?

When do religious beliefs become subsumed under Human Rughts?

There is a LIMIT.iw 

_________________
Ishola Williams
Maj-Gen. (Rtd)

Exec Sec

PANAFSTRAG

Lagos
E-mail: isholawilliams@yahoo.com
isholawilliams@gmail.com
panafstraginternational@yahoo.com

08056210960

website: www.panafstrag.org

 

 

On Tuesday, July 28, 2015 11:50 AM, 'Pa Fru Ndeh' via AfricanWorldForum <africanworldforum@googlegroups.com> wrote:

 

 Africa Can't Let Old Traditions Stand in the Way of Progress, Warns Obama

				Africa Can't Let Old Traditions Stand in the Way of Prog... President Obama was welcomed by the African Union's chairwoman as "one of their own"
				View on time.com	Preview by Yahoo

 

 

 

Africa Can't Let Old Traditions Stand in the Way of Progress, Warns Obama

·         Aryn Baker / Addis Ababa @arynebaker

  10:42 AM ET

    

President Obama was welcomed by the African Union's chairwoman as "one of their own"

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United States President Barack Obama wrapped up his four-day visit to Africa on Tuesday July 28 with a rousing address to the African Union, at its headquarters in Addis Ababa, Ethiopia. Calling for the empowerment of African youth and women, for an end to the "cancer of corruption" and greater economic ties between Africa and America, Obama told the 54-nation body that "It is long past time to put aside old stereotypes of an Africa forever mired in poverty and conflict."

The African Union was established in 2001 to achieve greater unity between African countries and a better life for African people. Over the past decade it has gained strength and respect in the international arena as it wields its political and military tools to solve thorny African problems, from civil conflict to terrorism and obstacles to trade. By becoming the first U.S. leader to address the A.U., Obama ensured that his praise, his exhortations to do better and his promise of partnership reached every corner of the continent, on what is likely to be his last visit to the region as President.

Welcomed by the African Union's first chairwoman, Dr. Nkosazana Dlamini-Zuma, who introduced him as the President of the United States of America, the first to address the A.U., and "one of our own," Obama took the podium to sustained applause, cheers and whistles. In a

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