Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Moderator's Caution: Lives Matter

oa,

The generality of the people means in the context it was used in relation to the constitution, that worth its salt all the processes it passes through the representatives of the people before it becomes a document that warrants its legitimacy as law of the country. In other words, it would have passed through the State Assembly of each State and it would have got input from different interest groups and sometimes a referendum would be necessary to confirm acceptability of various sections of the draft document. Once it has the approval of the elected representatives in the final analysis it becomes the document of the generality of the people. The idea of generality of the people does not connote majority of the populace. It is akin to 'simple majority'. 

I was in the US when the presidential ecru on took place. Of course, I believe in the leadership of President Buhari. So far he has not disappointed me. 
Prof. Segun Ogungbemi

On Oct 29, 2015, at 12:26 AM, "Anunoby, Ogugua" <AnunobyO@lincolnu.edu> wrote:

Thank you SO.

My concern at this time, is not how Nigeria's constitution came about. It is the constitution under which Buhari was elected president. You support Buhari I believe. You voted for him I presume. You may not pick and choose when the constitution is acceptable to you and when it is not.

The constitution in democratic countries, is usually put together by representatives of the people. There is never a time the "generality of the people of the country" congregate to write it. In Nigeria's case, representatives of the people, met over many months, and put  a draft together. The presumption must be that the  representatives must have taken into account the many and different customs, ethnicities, and traditions of all the Nigerian people in the many discussions that produced the draft document. The draft document was the subject of many and vigorous debates. The compromise document that is now the constitution emerged after.

The constitution is very unlikely to be a perfect document. There will always be things about it to gripe about. The way forward in my opinion, is not for one or more citizens/groups to violate any part of the constitution for the furtive reason of custom and tradition. The way forward should be to always be in compliance with it- make it work. If one or more persons or groups are unhappy with any parts of the constitution, they should work to amend it, not violate that part.

 

so

 

From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com [mailto:usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Segun Ogungbemi
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2015 2:48 AM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Moderator's Caution: Lives Matter

 

oa,

Where does the constitution get its legitimacy if not from people? People make culture and customs their distinctive identity which they preserve as legacies. 

Nigeria is a cluster of ethnic groups of different cultures and customs. The diversities of cultures, customs, traditions and institutions in Nigeria have become a problem for the elites and intellectuals to waive together and make it a nation. 

The current constitution that is often referred to in part as amended is not by the people of Nigeria. 

What I mean by the people of Nigeria is that it does not have the input of the generality of the people of this country to command its respect.

No constitution that worths its salt in Nigeria will ignore the peculiarities inherent in the diversities of our cultures, customs. and traditions. 

The concept of in "brotherhood we stand" that was echoed in the first national anthem captures the intended nationhood originally envisioned which the military jettisoned. 

The true nature of our collective existence as a country is different from of that of the United States of America. And any time the diasporans equate Nigeria system with that of the United States of America it does not add up. 

Our federalism recognizes the regional ethnicities for instance, the Yoruba in the South Western Nigeria including their kith and kin in Kwara and Kogi States. They have a common language, culture, customs and traditions although there may be some variations. A Yoruba man who leaves his original home for another Yoruba town knows that he has to respect the institutions in that place. He cannot claim to be Yoruba and violate the customs and traditions of the town that are considered sacred. If he goes contrary to the norms of the society, he will be called to order. 

I believe it is the same in other parts of the country. 

To live in peace, harmony and unity, it becomes imperative to go back to the concept of brotherhood, recognizing our differences and respects traditions and institutions of our host communities. 

The true nature of a republic is what the people have agreed together in its constitution, which of course is in tandem with their cultures, customs , traditions and institutions. 
Prof. Segun Ogungbemi

On Oct 27, 2015, at 9:17 PM, "Anunoby, Ogugua" <AnunobyO@lincolnu.edu> wrote:

I do not know that anyone supports the disrespect or subversion of any aspects of the custom and tradition of any part of Nigeria in which they choose to live. The issue for me is whether custom and tradition trumps the laws of the Republic of Nigeria, and also whether communities/groups can pick and choose which laws of the republic they would abide by based on any conflicts and contradictions that custom and tradition may pose. My considered view is that the constitution is the supreme law. All accommodation including custom and tradition must be within and not outside it if the constitution is to mean anything. That seems to me to be the choice that Nigeria have made. All Nigerians should be faithful to that choice.

If I understand it correctly, the Nigeria project is about building and growing an achieving, competitive country that works for all law abiding citizens at all times, in spite of Nigeria's diversity spectrum. A bloody war was fought over many years to keep the country together- uphold the constitution not custom and tradition. That this conversation is taking place in this forum is a wee bit uncomfortable for me. The primacy of the constitution in my opinion, and unalloyed respect of it in spite of different customs and traditions, is the best guarantee of fulfillment of Nigeria's purpose and promise

 

oa.  

 

 

From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com [mailto:usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Rex Marinus
Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2015 12:39 PM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Moderator's Caution: Lives Matter

 

Dear Professor Falola:

With due regard to the sentiments that you have reflected here, I'd like to ask you that very simple question that Soyinka asked some nearly two decades ago "when is a nation"? Humane scholarship, as I understand it, permits us to ask the hard and difficult questions, and to give real ambit to our most enlightened conscience. So, let me draw an analogy with some of our experiences here: because the Ku Klux Klan has history and is sacred to some people,  must we therefore never question, or attempt to organize in areas where they hold sway, because it would offend those who find the KKK an important part of their "culture" and "heritage"? Better still, you realize that the foundation of the Nazi idea and of Mussolini's exactly asks us to do very exactly what you have proposed, almost inadvertently? And I'm certain you neither identify with Nazism or Fascism ideologically, although its local variety seems to escape your scrutiny, it seems to me, in the penumbra of  the protective sheets which you now advocate we must wear around the critique of the modern nation in Nigeria.

 

Nations have never been built on these terms. Every right we enjoy today, in the comforts of our current location was gained by blood and sacrifice; by people who were insistent on breaking down the barriers you want us to protect/preserve in Nigeria. It did not come by easy acquiesence.  If they had followed your thinking, sir, you would never mount the distinguished chair you sit upon quite easily and legitimately today in Austin, Texas. There will certainly be no interest in African history in those places. Our particular identities do not foreclose, and need not detain us to the past. Let me give a particularly recent example about why we must not be sucked into the defence of these strange institutions. I do not know if you agree with image of the just dead Ooni of Ife, with his foot resting on his court or ritual slave, who traveled with him t Harvard. As a sign of culture and indication of majesty, the slave knelt before Ooni Olubuse as he sat, while he was a guest of a conference on African Religions in Harvard about five years or so ago. It was a horrifying scene, but there are those who defend it as tradition.

 

If we are unwilling to defend the constitution that grants equality between the Ooni and his ritual slave, by placing limits which it does not place on the individual, simply on the premise that it questions the Ooni, at what point do we then stop talking about the travesty called Nigeria? Why should e worry that corruption exists? Because everytime the Nigerian intellectual talks about democracy, and still defends the rights of the monarchy, they defend a corrupt order. They are either unclear about the conceptual meaning and significance of the terms they use, or they are just being hypocritical. The trouble in Nigeria has remained the limits we are prepared to place on its development as a modern, progressive state; the extreme disregard of its laws by the self-interested elite, and the complicity of the intellectuals who have mostly been willing tools, because they tolerate, accommodate, and perpetuate the most conservative and tyrannical order on that society, sometimes of the lamest excuses: "it is too dangerous to shift the apple carts," we say.

 

 My favorite Nigeria is also the Onigbongbo model. Anybody who likes to go and prostrate to Onigbongbo has the supreme rights. But whoever wants to drink beer in front ofclass=MsoNormal> My favorite Nigeria is also the Onigbongbo model. Anybody who likes to go and prostrate to Onigbongbo has the supreme rights. But whoever wants to drink beer in front of the mosque should be free to do so, for as long as it is not inside the mosque. It should neither the business of the imam or the Onigbongbo to decree on whether beer is to be sold or not. If they as much as attempt to disrupt the common life of those who choose to drink beer either in Onigbongo or in Sokoto, the Federal government has the duty and the obligation under our laws to protect the secular convictions of citizens, whether they have lived in Onigbongbo all their lives, or just came to town by bus, that night. It should not matter because that is the basis of our rule of law. When we become selective on which law to defend, or place abstract limits on the rights already guaranteed the citizen, we give leverage to disorder, and to tyranny. I salute you, professor.

Obi Nwakanma

 

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From: toyinfalola@austin.utexas.edu
To: USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Moderator's Caution: Lives Matter
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 13:09:01 +0000

Scholars:

 

As you make your arguments, be aware that statements that can generate violence and loss of lives are outside the bounds of scholarly engagements and individual rights. Indeed, such statements are irresponsible. Citizenship has its limits. Freedom has its limits. Rights are not limitless.

 

We cannot be in the comfort of our relocated spaces and not know that we have our brothers and sisters in  Enugu, Sokoto, Makurdi,  Ibadan and other places whose lives deserve to be protected.

 

Localism, irrespective of one's "federalist" position, remains powerful in Africa. You cannot wish away overnight, Zulu identity, even if we make arguments that it was a 19th century creation. Igbo, Yoruba etc. as presently constituted as political identities have not always been with us. But you can no longer wish them away overnight. I cannot go to Benue State and be disrespectful to the Idoma because of modernist arguments.

 

I cannot walk to Sokoto and say that the Sultan is not important, and his right to the Sokoto throne qualifies me to set up what the Sultan will regard as a threat to his throne. There is a history to his throne, and there may be a history to mine as well, but wisdom means that I must be careful as I may not even have the number to fight the Sultan.

 

I am not from Ile-Ife, but I cannot walk to Ife to ask them not to accord respect and dignity to their Ooni. Who am I? Citizenship in most African countries remain connected to places of birth, and I am sure that it will not always be so in the years ahead. You and I do not know when. 

 

Meanwhile, we must protect lives, and not be talking about death to people, in so casual a manner.

 

A mob can be generated within minutes in many places, and the police and army cannot do that much to protect lives, usually of the poor. 

 

Onigbogbo is my favorite joint in Nigeria. I was there last week. Here is the model that works, Muslims and Christians, poor and not so poor, Tiv, Igbo and Yoruba living their lives without1.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Onigbogbo is my favorite joint in Nigeria. I was there last week. Here is the model that works, Muslims and Christians, poor and not so poor, Tiv, Igbo and Yoruba living their lives without many of the arguments we make here. My joint is actually in front of the palace of the Onigbongbo. Indeed, after the Friday mosque, some Muslims joined us to drink beer. The Onigbongbo people see lives differently from the way some of the scholars see things.

 

Exercise caution. 

 

Life is sacrosanct. One life should not be lost because of temporary political exigencies in a country that was cobbled together and where secular institutions remain either weak or not functioning well.

 

CAUTION

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