S.Kadiri
From: AnunobyO@lincolnu.edu
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2015 09:48:19 -0600
Subject: FW: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Today's Quote
CH,
Yakubu Gowon was never married to Edith Ike Okongwu. He married Victoria who is not Igbo. Gowon denied the paternity of Musa, a son by Edith for many years. This assertion that Edith was ever married to Gowon is a sordid misrepresentation of Gowon's life story. It is sickeningly uncharitable to Victoria, Gowon's wife of many years with whom he has children. Worse still, It is shamefully disrespectful of the very accomplished Edith Okongwu who paid a very high personal price for her relationship with Gowon. I am not surprised by the conflation of Edith and Victoria ( two women) into one woman married to Gowon, to make an obnoxious partisan point.
You must know by now as many in this forum do already, that a lot of very blatantly opinionated falsehood is retailed here as facts, in some cases as historical facts. Thank you for siding with right in spite of the allure of the alternative- prejudiced posturing.
oa
From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com [mailto:usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Cornelius Hamelberg
Sent: Friday, November 20, 2015 10:42 AM
To: USA Africa Dialogue Series
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Today's Quote
I'm not playing to any gallery. Which gallery? Certainly not the gallery of USA-Africa series jurors.
Ogbeni Kadiri might be very pleased with himself and and very happy with you praising the usual venom in his hate-filled drivel and all the mucous in his anti-Biafra spittle as nothing less than "cool factual morning dew"
Some Lawyers are liars and some liars are lawyers. Half-truths are said to be complete lies. Do you agree? I am not deceived. I know that it's your profession, the way you make your daily bread, oftimes defending the wicked.
And what's this about "Half-Yoruba"? A person is either Yoruba or not. Next, on the Biafra question someone will be telling us about that improbable creature Mr. In-Between, the perfect equilibrium of being "Half-Yoruba & Half-Igbo", but even that cannot guarantee neutrality when it comes to standing up for the truth (the whole truth and nothing but the truth).
In my world you either are or you are not. No half anything and no Frank Yerby Octroons. I can see that like Ogbeni Kadiri you are also a stickler for definitions, this time the genetic and the cultural in the big world music. But this is not a time for half-truths, and talking about purgatory I notice that your Pape says that even atheists are redeemed by their good works.
You talk about "all the Igbo who genuinely owned properties in Port Harcourt" whilst Ogbeni Kadiri says that "Before the Federal forces captured Port Harcourt in May 1968, Igbo people in the town fled with all their moveable trade-wares called businesses"
Ogbeni Kadiri, Igbos also had shops or did they move their shops, carted them off in wheelbarrows, as part of "their moveable trade-wares called businesses" so that you could add with unchallenged impunity that "and as such, there were no *Igbo businesses* to confiscate."?
I have not taken "the trouble to research issues in-depth" but I take Sam Mbakwe's peoples' word about what I have stated. If I were Ogbeni Kadiri, just like him I would ask you to produce the documentary evidence," the case file number, name of presiding judge and court" etc. - but even that would not be enough for me to accept your "I rest my case" when so many houses were auctioned off.
As to identity politics, Ogbeni Kadiri exonerates Gowon on the basis of " he married his Igbo wife":
"Truly, Gowon might have been a military dictator but he was the most humble military ruler Nigeria has ever had. During the war, he married his Igbo wife, Victoria Edith Ike Okongwu"…etc ( Ogbeni Kadiri)
Big deal, so Gowon married an Igbo. And the Prophet of Islam ( S.A.W.) married a Jew . This did not save the Jews of Khyber ...
My questions: Suppose the papers had been burned (arson) or had otherwise disappeared? Or the whole exercise was being conducted in an atmosphere of fear? You think that it's justice that a man has to re-buy his own house/ houses at an auction?
BTW, I was last in Freetown and only for ten days in 1970. I have often toyed with the idea of travelling to Freetown to reclaim some of my little empire of coconut trees and sand, but I know that I would get into a whole lot of trouble and that someone (maybe some politicians have already erected their mansions on my beach land, so if it's your money or your life, I will always choose my life and if it's your money or your wife, I will always choose my wife…
And there you have it - the Igbo man having to choose between his life and claim his looted property in very dangerous circumstances, chooses life
By the way that move you house from my land happened to my grandfather Louis Hamelberg who had built his house at Fort Street, Tower Hill, the highest point in Central Freetown. I believe the lease for the land was up and the landowner told him that he wanted his land back and for Louis to kindly move his house from the land … or? Or? OR Things Fall Apart...
Oh justice!
Cornelius
After the Sabbath, I'm going to make a couple of definitive statements about the terrorism situation and Sweden here:
We Sweden
On Friday, 20 November 2015 14:45:05 UTC+1, ibk wrote:
My dear half Yoruba and quarter Jewish Menahem Hammelberg of Freetown,
You are playing to the gallery with a great deal of ignorance and propaganda that you package as facts. Please take the trouble to research issues in-depth before you jump with both legs into hungry crocodile infested shallow river of Biafra. Half of what you hear the Biafrans say is propaganda, a quarter are outright lies, and the last quarter hover between the lies and the propaganda.
Salimonu Kadiri,
Thank you for factually destroying the house of lies built with Biafran spit with your cool factual morning dew. Sam Mbakwe came to prominence after the civil war in January 1970 as the lawyer who pleaded the Igbo cause and represented almost all the Igbo who genuinely owned properties in Port Harcourt and he either got compensation for their properties or he got the properties back.
For his exertions he became the first civilian Governor of Imo State.
Let the gullible continue to lap up lies! They shall be confronted by the truth and the truth if they love the truth shall set them free. For those who love lies, they will remain in perpetual damnation and end in purgatory.
Cheers.
IBK
On 19 November 2015 at 21:00, Salimonu Kadiri <ogunl...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Menahem Hamelberg, wearing snakes as necklaces to hugg Igbo with lies is not a demonstration of love. Mildly stated, it is hypocrisy and worst, it is wicked. That is my understanding of the following written by you, "The confiscation of Igbo assets in Port Harcourt - more precisely the confiscation of Igbo-owned businesses, houses and other properties in Port Harcourt which were said to have been 'abandoned' and therefore auctioned away at FIVE NAIRA a piece..." The dangerous kiss of Igbo with lies contains three unrelated key words - confiscation, abandoned and auctioned. Before the Federal forces captured Port Harcourt in May 1968, Igbo people in the town fled with all their moveable trade-wares called businesses and as such, there were no *Igbo businesses* to confiscate. Were houses belonging to Igbo confiscated in Port Harcourt after the war? The answer is capital NO. In Port Harcourt, houses were not owned collectively by Igbo but individually. Therefore, individual Igbo house owner in Port Harcourt who did not return to claim his/her house after the war had such house declared, abandoned. The then Rivers State government which included present day Bayelsa State, did not want abandoned houses to dilapidate and therefore decided to sell them on auctions at affordable price of, as you put it, FIVE NAIRA to the inhabitants of Port Harcourt. Igbo were not excluded from partaking in the biddings for the houses. That no Igbo person came forward to claim the houses could be that their owners had died during the war. In fact, if any house was illegally declared abandoned, the owner had the option of going to court with a proper documents of ownership to reclaim his/her house. A house cannot be confiscated from a ghost owner but it can be declared abandoned by the authorities and be compulsorily administered under the law.
As for your speculation about *the spectre of looting Igbo-owned assets and properties located outside of Igboland* after Biafra might have been born, I find this incongruent to commonsense because the reasons given by the Igbo for seeking a sovereign state of Biafra out of Nigeria are that they, the Igbo, are discriminated, persecuted, oppressed and marginalised in Nigeria. Under these political and economic conditions that the Igbo say they are fleeing from in Nigeria, they should not and could not have acquired any assets or properties in Nigeria to be looted after their departures. It is just obvious that if the Igbo have Biafra as their motherland, they should suck the breasts of mother Biafra and not the breasts of mother Nigeria. So the question to your pal about what becomes of Igbo properties in Nigeria after the birth of Biafra is extravagant and unnecessary. Since you claimed that your question was "motivated by the unconstitutional and shameful theft by the Yakubu Gowon dictatorship of the private property of some of his fellow citizens," I will be very grateful, if you can inform me about the unconstitutional and shameful theft of private properties of Nigerians perpetrated by Yakubu Gowon. Truly, Gowon might have been a military dictator but he was the most humble military ruler Nigeria has ever had. During the war, he married his Igbo wife, Victoria Edith Ike Okongwu, with whom he had a son, Musa Jack Ngonadi Gowon. When Gowon was overthrown in 1975, the wife relocated to USA with the son, where she was reported to have died
later, while Gowon was granted asylum in the UK. Probably, you are not an extremist but your views below, to me, are immoderate.
S.Kadiri
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2015 10:00:40 -0800
From: cornelius...@gmail.com
To: usaafric...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Today's Quote
Lord Anunoby,
You are on target: Bullseye: my first question is "motivated by the unconstitutional and shameful theft by the Yakubu Gowon dictatorship of the private property of some of his fellow citizens".
"They" might still be celebrating what they believe was "the spoils of war" or "War Booty" but which, all things fairly considered is tantamount to nothing less than Theft : The confiscation of Igbo assets in Port Harcourt - more precisely the confiscation of Igbo-owned businesses, houses and other properties in Port Harcourt which were said to have been "abandoned". It's the first piece of news that I saw first-hand in my first week in Port Harcourt : Igbo owned houses were pointed out to me that had been allegedly "abandoned" and therefore auctioned away at Five Naira a piece to some of the hungry egg eaters. The Nazis committed similar crimes such as the looting of Jewish property
The wicked one says, "What's mine is mine and what's yours is also mine"
Have the Igbos been compensated for these losses?
It's most worrying that we have seen the same arguments being advanced in and out of this forum, as if the looting of Igbo assets is a precedent that should be followed in the eventuality of Biafra being born by referendum and constitutionally – that the spectre of looting Igbo-owned assets and properties located outside of Igboland should act as sufficient deterrent to thwart any such moves by those who would like to see a peaceful Biafra.
CH
We Sweden
On Wednesday, 18 November 2015 16:02:38 UTC+1, Anunoby, Ogugua wrote:
Good questions CH.
I neither intend nor presume to speak for Biafra.
As hypothetical as your questions are, I dare to think aloud. There are models for resolving borders, citizenship, and property and other assets related issues when a country breaks up. People may choose which country to belong to for example. The private property rights of individual would usually be respected. That a country breaks up is not to say that the countries would not get along- live with each other. The U.S.S.R., Yugoslavia, and Indonesia and East Timor, are recent examples. The parties negotiate with each other at some point on such matters as compensation and restitution among others. Citizenship in modern states is usually bestowed by birth (not blood I must add) or naturalization. I do not see why any new country's will be different.
Is your first question motivated by the unconstitutional and shameful theft by the Yakubu Gowon dictatorship of the private property of some of his fellow citizens a few decades ago if I may ask?
Thank you CH.
oa
From: usaafric...@googlegroups.com [mailto:usaafric...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Cornelius Hamelberg
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2015 5:08 PM
To: USA Africa Dialogue Series
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Today's Quote
Amended:
Lord Anunoby,
Verily, as you so succinctly state it," welcoming strangers is one of a few truly universal values. It has been for millennia. I do not know of a culture that at its core, does not believe in welcoming strangers even when it is reluctant to practice it. All religions as far as I know advocate it.
There are at least two good reasons for this shared value. People always moved around. In some cases they do not return to where they moved from because they cannot or choose not to. Everyone can imagine the pain of rejection because the one is different. People who move expected therefore to be welcome in their new home. They know therefore to reciprocate when the shoe is in the other foot."
The ger/ stranger occupies a very special position in Jewish ethics; It is one of 613 Mitzvoth /Commandment and one of the positive commandments: "To bear affection for a ger (stranger, convert, and proselyte)" I was amazed when I started attending regular Sabbath services in 1996 what I felt was the extraordinary kindness shown to me – the rationale of the Almighty who created everybody is stated in the Torah : "For you were once strangers in the land of Egypt"
Jesus of Nazareth emphasises this commandment that's lodged in the Torah and in the hearts of those of those who study it: Leviticus 19: 18 : "You shall neither take revenge from nor bear a grudge against the members of your people; you shall love your neighbour as yourself. I am the Lord."
I once asked a rabbi (arabbi) whether or not the Pals were neighbours. You can imagine his answer.
I asked my Palestinian friend the same question, adding "don't forget the Jews are your cousins!"
His reply: "The Israelis are our enemies." That's the impasse.
I should like to point out that at no time did I feel discriminated in Nigeria , not me, not my Better Half or my son (although my son did not like being called "Oyibo" and my Better Half sometimes got preferential treatment at the Supermarket ( it was assumed that I was her "Chauffeur" or her " Man Friday" servant - another reason why Sergeant Brown turned up the day after I had invited him to dinner, to request that he take my Better Half out, to the Cinema – something that he believed was a common cultural practice in Sweden, that you can just turn up at your acquaintance's home the day after your first invitation to dinner , to take the man's wife to the cinema. The man? Oh I guess that he should do the baby sitting whilst the two of them are having a good time at the cinema. So I called out "Ebba! Sergeant Brown is at the door. He says that he is here to take you to the cinema!" And that was the end of that. You see, whilst I the galley slave was busy in the kitchen preparing the dinner for four, Sergeant Brown had been chatting pleasantly enough with Better Half, and I guess that he must have thought that she was the president and that I was merely the Butler ( a misunderstanding) I should have put him in his place from the very start during the dinner , when he had told me not to interrupt Madam when she was talking - or reported him to my friend the Deputy Commissioner of Rivers State Police , Mr. Effebo. All said and done I came to the conclusion that if charged, at worst Sergeant Brown would only plead guilty of wanting to actualise some "love your neighbour as yourself", with the emphasis on love for his neighbour's wife. Like a character from Joyce Cary's Mister Johnson.
(At this point I'm impelled to share some personal good news with you: Oh Happy Day! Thirty years later, I've hooked up again with man of God, Titus Akanabu who was my good friend in Nigeria, 1981-1984 and in correspondence before he disappeared from orbit when the Nigerian postal system must have collapsed. The Almighty has done mightily with him and he is now Bishop Titus Akanabu. Significantly, both of us are now in another country! We may soon be singing together, "By the Rivers of Babylon)
But back to your posting – and then (your profession) you delve into the economic aspects of interdependency. My part of Europe has much in common with what you say about Japan: "declining birthrate- her population is aging, the labor force is shrinking, and demand at home is shrinking too. International trade is more competitive" - Many studies have shown that Sweden's economy would do a lot better with more immigration – but it's a truth that's a hard-sell to many Swedish nationalists whose perception is that our beautiful Sweden, Swedish culture and the Swedish way of life is increasingly under threat of being swamped / overrun by foreign immigrant cultures. This is one of the causes of xenophobia.
Thinking of Donald Trump just now, thinking about him and the phenomenal Ogbeni Kadiri's goose that lays the golden eggs and the hungry egg-eaters. As Brother Malcolm said, you can't have capitalism without racism
And bringing it all back home to the possibilities of good governance and good neighbourliness in Nigeria, I should like to ask you or John Mbaku Esq these questions:
1. Should Biafra come into being what then would be the legal status of properties owned by Igbos in various parts of Nigeria?
2. The legal status of persons. Would Biafran Citizenship be coterminous with Igbo ethnicity or can a person (e.g. yours truly) opt to be a Biafran or a Nigerian?
Yours sincerely,
CH
We Sweden
On Tuesday, 17 November 2015 17:03:52 UTC+1, Anunoby, Ogugua wrote:
Good questions CH.
Canada, Japan and any other sovereign country may have immigration policies of their choice. Some, like race based policies may only be in their short term interest. I believe welcoming strangers is one of a few truly universal values. It has been for millennia. I do not know of a culture that at its core, does not believe in welcoming strangers even when it is reluctant to practice it. All religions as far as I know advocate it.
There are at least two good reasons for this shared value. People always moved around. In some cases they do not return to where they moved from because they cannot or choose not to. Everyone can imagine the pain of rejection because the one is different. People who move expected therefore to be welcome in their new home. They know therefore to reciprocate when the shoe is in the other foot.
Competitive economics and politics, and misguided nationalism cause some people/countries to depart from the millennia old accepted practice of welcoming strangers. They cause them to seek temporary advantages they assume would be maintained if they excluding especially those they believe, they do not share kinship with or disagree with. Unenlightened politicians exacerbate the exclusion by fanning embers of hatred of those who "do not look like us" to win elections. Margaret Thatcher played the xenophobia card shamelessly. It helped to win her two general elections in Britain in my opinion. Some on the right in U.S.A. politics are merchants of this hatred too. Many countries have politicians who ply the same trade.
It was reported yesterday that the Japanese economy is again in recession. The experts say the recession may have to do with Japan's declining birthrate- her population is aging, the labor force is shrinking, and demand at home is shrinking too. International trade is more competitive today. Home generated demand is more necessary than ever before. Japan is no longer the world's # 1 exporter nation. Experts recommend that Japan relaxes her immigration policies. Will they? Immigration policies based on race can be bad economics.
Are immigration polices based on race morally objectionable? I would answer yes. Unequal treatment of any people based on race is an injustice to the victims of unequal treatment. No one chooses their race. Race is imposed on everyone. No one therefore should suffer injustice because of their race. The perpetrator of the injustice may deny that it is but they know it is. Slave masters knew slavery was wrong. They carried on with anyway because they could until they could no longer. Ditto the Nazis and the holocaust. No slave master or Nazi w
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