More about Libya and Slavery
GE
africahistory.net
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2017 12:39 PM
To: usaafricadialogue
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - BREAKING: Zimbabwe's President Mugabe Resigns
Hi Gloria
In contrast with obi, I believe firmly the Arab Spring was one of the important moments in courageous indigenous democratic revolt against autocracy—as was tinnamen sq in china. The leader of the uprising was Tunisia, followed by the incredible moment in tahir square in Egypt. Libya was one of many that followed.
I believe these were genuine revolts of the masses trying to overthrow dictatorships. The dictatorships had many supporters, not least of which were the u.s. and Saudi arabia. The people in the streets were protestors, not dupes of the west. They were "le peuple" in the best sense of the word, the best sense of demos, the best sense that Gramsci or marx would have understood.
That's my view of it.
I agree hilary's rhetoric was abhorrent; she was angling for a conservative center, distancing herself from the left. Ugly statement, but irrelevant; not a nugget of truth, not a nothing. It was not the only statement she made during the campaign that was bad. So what, she was a trillion miles better than our current monstrous leader, and I can't get excited about her judgment in using we killed him. I agree with you about its awfulness, but in the larger context, it didn't really matter.
Also, on Obama, he was budged by the Egyptian uprising, despite himself. he was a cautious man—syria proved it. He didn't want involvement, despite assassinating bin laden, using drones etc; he tried to back out of engagements in the middle east, and found it harder than he thought. But ghaddafi's fall was an outgrowth of the revolt against him, ultimately with u.s. and French support.
IS tried, and so far has failed, to replace him, and to replace assad. Thanks to the russie, assad remains to slaughter his people; Libya is unstable.
That's how I see it for now.
I am not sure where precisely we might disagree on this. perhaps on my belief that the arab spring represented a genuine uprising of the masses, and that where it has succeeded more or less in Tunisia, has not succeeded in Egypt and Libya, and I would aattach the word yet to both those cases, and would bet that the story is far from over.
ken
Kenneth Harrow
Dept of English and Film Studies
http://www.english.msu.edu/people/faculty/kenneth-harrow/
From: usaafricadialogue <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> on behalf of "Emeagwali, Gloria (History)" <emeagwali@ccsu.edu>
Reply-To: usaafricadialogue <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Date: Tuesday 28 November 2017 at 10:05
To: usaafricadialogue <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - BREAKING: Zimbabwe's President Mugabe Resigns
Ken, you don't build historical knowledge by wonderful sounding, pie-in -the sky declarations, pronouncements and convoluted statements, either.
The Arab Spring sounds nice and tantalizing but what did it mean for Libya on the ground?
A secessionist movement was brewing.
Al - Qaida and ISIS were on the doorstep setting up shop.
Gadaffi actually warned about the al - Qaida/ISIS factor. That was ignored. Gadaffi was no
angel but he was not the worst. It seems that Sarkozy wanted to cover up some of his financial dealings with Gadaffi, too.
Obama, generally uninformed about Africa, decided to toe the line.
The ghoulish, macabre ridicule of the death of Gadaffi was one of the greatest blunders of Hillary Clinton.
This went beyond the pale for a world leader, Ken. I am surprised that you are not bothered by this.
Well here is another version of the episode - remix.
Gloria
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