Beautiful-
'No more will the manifestation of Godhead be consigned to the back burners but integrated into the fabrics of contemporary modern everyday living and into the foreseeable future....
Myth as history; myth as religious affirmation of the present.'
Olayinka
On Fri, Aug 3, 2018 at 6:06 PM OLAYINKA AGBETUYI <yagbetuyi@hotmail.com> wrote:
--First of all immense appreciation to Ayodele Ogundipe for focusing unflinching (no matter what angle or perspective from which it is viewed) on the deity Esu-Elegbara. It now seems a century ago when it was really 2 decades ago when perusing a volume edited by Bisi Folayan of OAU Ile-Ife In the 80s where philosopher Moses Makinde lamented if only a practical use could be divined for the treasure trove of epistemic thought contained in Ifa Corpus particularly the mathematical calculus. I vowed to myself as long as I lived it was a wish I would help make true. We never relented since In keeping the agenda on the front burner.
As opposed to those days when the only place you could find a respectable engagement with the topic was among African Americans who wanted to underline their difference in Ifism (with the glaring exception of the Awise) and most respectable scholars from the native birth place of the Ifa institution would rather speak in hushed dismissive tones in order not to compromise their ' enlightened' evangelical credentials, Ifa studies have decidedly incrementally left the margins to the extent that university scholars could proudly announce themselves unabashedly as 'Omo Esu" with no fear of any opprobiums. We can now unequivocally announce to Professor Makinde that we HAVE-delivered!
From generating pathways to the epistemic revaluation to the re- insertion into the digital zeitgeist and repositioning Esu- Elegbara the communications God as the fount of all musical compositions as communication strategies through the Octavian revelation of the divine will of the First Octavian we can now insist that we have- delivered! No more will the manifestation of Godhead be consigned to the back burners but integrated into the fabrics of contemporary modern everyday living and into the foreseeable future....
Myth as history; myth as religious affirmation of the present.
OAA
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
-------- Original message --------From: "Harrow, Kenneth" <harrow@msu.edu>Date: 02/08/2018 22:15 (GMT+00:00)To: usaafricadialogue <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Esu Elegbara: Change, Chance, Uncertainty in Yoruba Mythology by Ayọdele Ogundipe - Publication of a Long Awaited Work in Yoruba Studies and the Trickster Motif in World Mythology
i second the praise for robert ferris thompson, a great art historian. all his work is amazing
From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju <toyin.adepoju@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 2, 2018 4:23:29 PM
To: usaafricadialogue
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Esu Elegbara: Change, Chance, Uncertainty in Yoruba Mythology by Ayọdele Ogundipe - Publication of a Long Awaited Work in Yoruba Studies and the Trickster Motif in World Mythology--thanks for that, Gloria.
i am yet to read that book I have recurrently seen is highly recommended.
your words motivate me to make sure i read it as soon as possible.
toyin
--On Tue, 31 Jul 2018 at 20:17, Emeagwali, Gloria (History) <emeagwali@ccsu.edu> wrote:
--Yes. I think this is what Robert Farris Thompson does in Flash of the Spirit: African & Afro American Art & Philosophy - a wonderful 1983 text by the Yale Art historian that captures the vision.
Incidentally I am hoping that Random House will bring out a second edition of that highly- rated, brilliant text of 1983-
that effectively grasps the fundamentals and brilliance of Black cultures with a focus on Yoruba, Kongo, Haitian,
Mandinka and African American examples. I wonder why they have not done so as yet.
We can comfortably modify the subtitle of Flash of the Spirit, to "African & Afro-American Art, Philosophy, Mythology and Theology."
Professor Gloria EmeagwaliProfessor of History
From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju <toyin.adepoju@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2018 8:02 AM
To: usaafricadialogue
Cc: tvoluade@gmail.com; Yoruba Affairs
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Esu Elegbara: Change, Chance, Uncertainty in Yoruba Mythology by Ayọdele Ogundipe - Publication of a Long Awaited Work in Yoruba Studies and the Trickster Motif in World Mythologysuperbly put Ken.
i particularly like this - 'i would say, take the "myth" the "theology" and build on it, not so much through a belief system, but rather a system that enables us to see the world through the vision they provide.'
in my spiritual practice i have used both the myths of established religions and the myths created by imaginative writers, as in j.r.r. tolkien's silmarilion and i have had rich experiences with both kinds.
thanks
toyin
--On Tue, 31 Jul 2018 at 12:40, Harrow, Kenneth <harrow@msu.edu> wrote:
--hi toyin,
so, i suppose one could say, it's just a myth, meaning you don't have to believe it, whereas for theology, you have to believe or not believe it, and to disparage it you'd say, it's just a myth. that issue was crucial for christian studies years ago when bultmann and others tried to invent a term like myth that still admitted of the respect in claiming that christ existed, that the events described in the evangelical writings described something real etc. we could say for any tradition, like my jewish one, that the encounters with god and moses or the israelites could also be real in some quasi-truthful reading.
my own view, in answer to your comment, is that there is no difference between myth and belief or theology, as you describe it, in the sense that both are grounded in ways we make sense of things, of the world, of narratives, etc. the need to establish reality and truth is a universal human need, and weakness, that we read through the lens of such narratives we construct about the past--or even the present, as seen in the continuing construction of "divinely" inspired figures as prophets, serignes, and so on. i am actually not disparaging this creation of figures like Ahmadou Bamba. one of my favorite authors who evokes that figure is Alan Roberts whose book onthe profit is nothing short of amazing. i would say, take the "myth" the "theology" and build on it, not so much through a belief system, but rather a system that enables us to see the world through the vision they provide.
[it goes without saying that when "theology" insists on its way as the only way we open the door to monstrous acts, like those committed by fundamentalists of ALL stripes, without exception, from Sri Lankan buddhists to brooklyn ultra-orthodox jewish sects, to christian evangelicals and muslim djihadists. Before praising theology and belief you have to be able to condemn these abhorrent extensions of it and account for them. and i include eurocentric beliefs that extended to colonial discourses and their aftermath in this same world-construction of extremist monstrosities. if we don't figure out what the need for belief generates, we won't really understand the positive and negative sides of belief]
sorry for the length of the ratiocinations
ken
From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju <toyin.adepoju@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2018 1:35:25 AM
To: usaafricadialogue
Cc: tvoluade@gmail.com; Yoruba Affairs
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Esu Elegbara: Change, Chance, Uncertainty in Yoruba Mythology by Ayọdele Ogundipe - Publication of a Long Awaited Work in Yoruba Studies and the Trickster Motif in World MythologyOne would need to red the text to see how she interprets those terms and their interrelationships.
Mythology becomes theology, in my view, when the mythology is part of a belief system and religious practice.
But, can't one describe a belief system as mythology, which religions often are, without necessarily addressing it as theology?
thanks
toyin
toyin
--On Tue, 31 Jul 2018 at 02:24, Emeagwali, Gloria (History) <emeagwali@ccsu.edu> wrote:
--
Professor Gloria EmeagwaliProfessor of History
History DepartmentCentral Connecticut State UniversityGloria Emeagwali's Documentaries onAfrica and the African Diaspora8608322815 Phone8608322804 Fax
From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju <toyin.adepoju@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2018 10:26 AM
To: usaafricadialogue; tvoluade@gmail.com; Yoruba Affairs
Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Esu Elegbara: Change, Chance, Uncertainty in Yoruba Mythology by Ayọdele Ogundipe - Publication of a Long Awaited Work in Yoruba Studies and the Trickster Motif in World Mythology
Kwara State University Press
' Esu is arguably the least understood of all the numerous deities in Yoruba pantheon, despite his being venerated by the devotees as the Yoruba gatekeeper god, messenger of the deities, and close associate and errand boy of Ifa, god of divination; one who brings both fear and joy to his devotees, because he brings both blessings and trouble to them. Ayodele Ogundipe's objective in this insightful book has been to provide a better understanding of the ubiquitous deity in Yoruba pantheon, an objective which is brilliantly achieved. The author's extensive fieldwork involved close interactions with the leaders and votaries of the Esu cult, particularly in two major Yoruba cities where the cult traditions are kept alive. The author also extends the coverage to Esu traditional worship in the Yoruba Diaspora, particularly in Dahomey, now Benin Republic and Brazil. Several praise poems in the original Yoruba language, aptly translated into English by the author, as well as several mythological stories about the deity, told by the worshippers and reliable informants, form part of this work. The author, Professor Ayodele Ogundipe, currently teaches in the Department of Sociology, Covenant University, Ota, Ogun State'.
Is Prof. Ayodele Ogundipe speaking about theology or mythology? Are these two concepts synonymous and interchangeable in this text?
GE--
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