Dear Professor Harrow,
Just on this one point , some people might get the wrong idea when you say, "consider the last supper, as an example of his adhering to jewish practice to the end."
Any such wrong impression has to be corrected. Since both cannibalism and the eating and drinking of blood is strictly forbidden in today's Judaism and in the Judaism of Jesus' times, one can only conclude that the account of the Pesach Seder / Passover dinner - the exodus from Egypt which Jesus is supposed to have celebrated with his disciples as "the Last Supper " and at which the Jewish Jesus departed from the traditional Jewish norm, must have been a later interpolation to justify or support some later theological positions taken by e.g. Paul, Christianity's foundation theologian. According to Matthew:
26While they were eating, Jesus took bread, spoke a blessing and broke it, and gave it to the disciples, saying, "Take and eat; this is My body." 27Then He took the cup, gave thanks and gave it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you. 28This is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins."
I wonder if the so called " Messianic Jews" also celebrate this primitive, heretical, non-Jewish rite as is done in the Catholic Church – known as "the holy communion" and known by the church as transubstantiation or the doctrine of transubstantiation by which the bread and the wine are transformed into the living body and blood of their Lord Jesus – is a heinous innovation and not at all Jewish , not even symbolically speaking even if through replacement theology the adherents of Jesus believe themselves to be the true Israel or the real Israel or the New Israel.
Even this Muslim Sheikh ridicules the idea. (Papal Bull – Shaykh Dr. Abdalqadir as-Sufi ) :
"The little ex-Hitler Youth, Pope Someone the Something had just returned from his African Holy-day. He made one important announcement for a continent crippled with the doctrines of bankism, poverty, genocide, and sexual anarchy with its pandemic disease. Africa, he declared, had to cure itself of witchcraft and the practices of magic.
He then celebrated the primitive magical rite which is the foundation of his claim to fame. Wafer biscuits were served to the people and goblets of red wine were elevated before a large cross and drunk by the initiate priests. Only he and priests ritually initiated by his Cardinals and Bishops were able to perform this magic act. For, it was claimed, this bread and wine were transformed, transubstantiated in their special language, into the flesh and blood of the Lord Jesus who lived two thousand odd years ago. It was not, as the rebel protestants claimed, consubstantiation – that is, it both is and is not the flesh and blood of Jesus. Nor was it, as the extreme protestants claimed, nonsubstantiation – that is, not changed from bread and wine, merely a commemorative act of the 'Last Supper'. The 'Hic est corpus' of the Roman Mass – 'This is my body' – was already by the Middle Ages being mockingly called 'Hocus pocus', which became the synonym of fraud."
But there again, both Judaism and Islam have to recognise Christianity as another religion , with it's own exclusive claims, magical rites, priests, doctrines, ideas of salvation, saints , eschatologies ..
On Thursday, 13 September 2018 14:53:32 UTC+2, Kenneth Harrow wrote:
hi gloria
perhaps the expertise of cornelius would be better in answering your challenge. "jesus rejected judaism" is probably wrong. jesus was a jewish religious figure who sought to reform judaism, as many other jewish leaders had done. i don't believe he renounced judaism, but rather sought to change/reform it. consider the last supper, as an example of his adhering to jewish practice to the end.
if he was condemned by a jewish court, that represented the sanhedrin sect that was ruling at the time; judaism didn't reject him, a political faction under the romans did so. other jews were his followers.
lastly, i am a skeptic of religious "truths," like you, and prefer to ask historians about these matters
ken
kenneth harrow
professor emeritus
dept of english
michigan state university
517 803-8839
From: usaafric...@googlegroups.com <usaafric...@googlegroups.com > on behalf of Emeagwali, Gloria (History) <emea...@ccsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2018 12:53:35 AM
To: USA Africa Dialogue Series
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: THOUGHT FOR TODAY:. OnJesus rejected Judaism and Judaism rejected him, and still does so. Correct me if I am wrong on that. As for Islam,
the Imams and other religious scholars want proof that Jesus was a son of God, and not just another
charismatic prophet claiming divinity. Apparently, nail scars, levitation, empty tombs, and fish banquets don't impress these doubting jezebels- destined to hell fire. Needless to say that hell, for me, is -20 degrees on a really cold day in Connecticut.
It's a complicated world.
Professor Gloria Emeagwali
From: usaafric...@googlegroups.com <usaafric...@googlegroups.com > on behalf of Cornelius Hamelberg <cornelius...@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2018 2:51 AM
To: USA Africa Dialogue Series
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: THOUGHT FOR TODAY:. OnProfessor Aluko ,
Cornelius Ignoramus is eternally grateful to you ; for all I know I would have gone into my grave still believing that Bar Abbas was one of the two thieves crucified with Jesus. Let's hope that Mahmoud Abbas does not meet with the same fate, because that would only strengthen anti-Semitism in both the Christian, the Arab and the Muslim world. (Buddhists are not anti-Semitic; I cannot vouchsafe for all Hindus because since beef is not halal or kosher for the Hindus , Hindus must be in despair of other religionists killing their holy cows "in the name of God" and having their steaks and other body parts for dinner. Eating meat makes people more aggressive. Vegetarians are more highly regarded; vegetarians are less prone to violence, more non-violent. Paradoxically, Mister Hitler was a vegetarian?)
Still eternally grateful for the link that has caused me to be impressed by Cornelius ( the God-fearing Roman centurion ) especially because he wanted to observe all of the commandments.
There is some confusion about fearing God - as in "The beginning of wisdom is the fear of HASHEM" // "The beginning of wisdom is the fear of the Lord" - fear in the form of awe
Did Jesus reject Judaism? Have only read the Four Gospels. Have still not read Acts of the Apostles or Paul's Letters or the other epistles. Or the Apocrypha . Does everything have to be so difficult? Still ignorant.
In the meantime, I'm listening to this Rabbi
On Tuesday, 11 September 2018 19:10:41 UTC+2, Bolaji Aluko wrote:
Professor Cornelius:
Well, keep on giving us your insights, as Cornelius in the Bible, brief as he appeared, did:
By the way, the Penitent Thief (Dismas, according to the apocryphal Gospel of Nicodemus, or Demas, etc) is a Catholic Church saint:
So one man's revolutionary is another man's thief, and one man's thief is another man's saint!
Wanders will never seize!
Bolaji Aluko
On Tuesday, September 11, 2018, Cornelius Hamelberg <cornelius...@gmail.com> wrote:
It's refreshing to know that one man's freedom fighter can be regarded as the other man's rebel, murderer and terrorist such as the Jihad clan known as Boko Haram...
It's so interesting, following this discussion between dear Bolaji and dear Biko, the professor of criminology who wants to decriminalise and de-colonise the justice system and our professor of chemical engineering – an avid political commentator - about the the faith (and belief ?) of the revolutionary nationalist freedom fighter Barabbas the zealot , one of the two other persons crucified along with Jesus , that day promised , "Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise!"
I read of other zealots here on the way to paradise or to the other place...
As to our difficulties with the Greek Testament, like the Bard, knowing "little Latin and less Greek" I occasionally consulted with Brother Akonte Braide (self-taught New Testament Greek scholar) and ( I'll never forget) this was not too long after being nearly drowned by my fanatical Igbo Christian Brethren in what they called " Full Immersion Baptism " in that river in Umuahia. They must have been fancying themselves as some kind of John the Baptiser of the new dispensation and that their local river was flowing with the same holy water as the River Jordan in Jesus' Israel
Now, years later one has come to learn and understand that the Greek of the "New Testament" ( so called) is in fact some kind of pidgin Greek (like pidgin English) – just as today's Italian could be properly or improperly regarded as "pidgin Latin" by the same Stiff upper lip Nigerian English Language police and twenty-first century language purists who say today, "not even the Buckingham Palace classical Greek of the Greek philosophers" by whom some of the Diaspora culture Jews like Saul turned Paul had obviously been deeply affected – as a result of which we got the Biblical exegesis of Chapter 1, verse 1 of the Gospel according to John (King James Version) :" In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God... And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us " (Jesus) – what's translated as " The Word " is the Greek term Logos ( and all the ramifications thereof
Food for thought : I'm still chewing on Baba Kadiri saying that if the Almighty wants to talk to him, He had better do so in Yoruba. I suppose that the Hebrew Faithful invoke the same argument when objecting to any real, fake or purported revelations from Him to them , not communicated to them via the Holy Tongue , especially after he point when with Malachi the Prophetic cycle had already come to an end.
Claude Kayat did considerable research when writing "The Thirteenth Disciple" ("Den trettonde lärjungen") and more than once, has recommended to me Understanding The Difficult Words of Jesus - for a better understanding of the Gospels...
On Tuesday, 11 September 2018 15:51:00 UTC+2, Bolaji Aluko wrote:
Biko:
Moses is recorded to have killed only one person in Egypt - a mistake, a manslaughter crime of passiom rathsr than a premeditated first degree mutder. He regretted it and ran away from his privileged royal-Egyptian position, and had forty years to repent in Midian before returning to lead his Jewish people out of bondage..
Just to correct that record...I was there (in spirit).
Bolaji Aluko
On Tuesday, September 11, 2018, 'Biko Agozino' via USA Africa Dialogue Series <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
Bolaji
It shows how influential the KJV remains under imperialism.
It will be good to hear from those who know Greek what they were translating from to arrive at so much liberty with words that mock rebels against Rome and revolutionaries as bad men, thieves, robbers, murderers, and bandits just as Jesus was represented as a criminal by the Romans and Mandela was officially labeled a terrorist by the West.
The unrepentant Moses was shown grace after killing so many in Egypt because grace is not earned through repentance or tithing.
In the history of knowledge, the majority does not always carry the vote.
Biko
On Mon, Sep 10, 2018 at 11:42 PM, Mobolaji Aluko<alu...@gmail.com> wrote:
Biko:
There you have it is all I can say from these 101 translations. Thieves, robbers, outlaws, criminals, bandits, rebels, revolutionaries, insurrectionists, murderers - bad guys both!
But one became penitent on the Cross next to Christ and landed in Paradise - a prime example of unbaptize
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