Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Obituary: Binyavanga Wainaina

Encouraging priests to marry women is a good idea - except for those who decided to join the  Catholic priesthood fraternity BECAUSE they were gay.
Marriage of fellow male priests may be an option beyond the dictates of the religion but should be considered.



Professor Gloria Emeagwali
Prof. of History/African Studies, CCSU

---

From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> on behalf of OLAYINKA AGBETUYI <yagbetuyi@hotmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2019 5:32:26 AM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Obituary: Binyavanga Wainaina

 

The reason Catholic priests are said to be 80% gay is not divorced from what I suggested earlier: they trained and lived in a monosexual institution as indeed the convent Sisters ( perhaps by design from a Church that wanted to ensure that priests do not in the privacy of the confessional seduce other people's wives.).  In gay orientation that results secondary sexual organisation has resulted in only partial sublimation by substitution the sex object through compromise formation.( If the ultimate goal of the Church was realized then FULL sublimation would have occurred and the libido would have been transmuted into total devotion to God and pastoral duties.) 

This is why some have been clamouring for the Church to allow the priesthood to marry because of this psychosomatic failure in many priests which defeats the Church's goal.

The fact that a priest is gay does not mean they will resort to paedophilia though.  Responsible priests know the dividing line.  In all professions not everyone is responsible and the priesthood is not different.

OAA.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.

-------- Original message --------

From: "Emeagwali, Gloria (History)" <emeagwali@ccsu.edu>

Date: 29/05/2019 10:28 (GMT+00:00)

To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Obituary: Binyavanga Wainaina

I believe that at the end of the day  a person's sexuality should be a private issue. The victims of pedophilia matter, though.

Frederic Martel's "In the closet of the Vatican- Power, Homosexuality and Hypocrisy "(2019) suggests that about 80 percent of Catholic priests are gay, inclusive of the Vatican.
Is this figure accurate for Africa at the present time?

What percentage of these priests are pedophiles, if any? Is this figure statistically significant? If yes, what have been the impact of their actions on their victims? Have their activities led to the contraction - or the expansion of same- sex constituencies?

The New York Catholic diocese has paid $228 million dollars to victims of sexual abuse between 2017 and 2019? Have the victims of abuse in Africa received
Compensation?

I am not aware of any conferences on this issue but  we should probably work on some and  make sure that they do not deteriorate into fist fights and misinterpretations. Same sex relationships before colonialism and
interconnections between same sex relationships and Islam in Nigeria are big enough issues to warrant independent conferences.

This is as far as I would go for now.
I continue to learn from those who are generous enough to share their perspectives.

BTW Ken, I am also disappointed at your distortion of my statements.
The sentiment is mutual.

GE





Professor Gloria Emeagwali
Prof. of History/African Studies
________________________________
From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Abidogun, Jamaine M <JamaineAbidogun@MissouriState.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2019 12:22:32 PM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Obituary: Binyavanga Wainaina

Dear Shola,

Thank you for the academic reference.  In my research and experience over the past 25 years plus; one major issue I see in this discussion is that everyone seems to default to a Western construct of sexual orientation as well as to its socio-political parameters.  A more Afrocentric perspective, as experienced before the great evangelicals of the twentieth century promoted anti-gay policy in Africa, might help to refocus this discussion.

In all the writings and lived experience (as I take hundreds of oral histories in my work and plant myself as a participant observer); is that sexuality (and sexual orientation as a part of it) is much more fluid in most African civilizations.  While the words may not parallel Western concepts; the lived experience, in my small opinion, demonstrates a much more nuanced understanding of human affection, physical attraction and attachment. This doesn't mean that there is no instances of homophobia or discrimination in African history, but as you so rightly pointed out; the topic is in the shadows – but things like female husbands or long life friends who cohabit are acceptable in many areas. While sexual relations is not attributed to either of these two examples; there is no reason to think that it is never part of the relationship. And further that within many African societies, sexual relations are personal and not for public consumption within polite society. As in it is not my business who you have relations with as long as you are civil to me, then I am civil to you and respect your privacy.

These are just observations over decades of living, researching and working in West Africa. Gender is one of my areas of expertise, but I do not claim to be an expert on LGBTQ historical experiences or trends in Africa; only an observer of people.  Thank  you again for the reader; I will add it to my knowledge.

Cheers,
Jamaine Abidogun

From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Shola Adenekan
Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2019 3:37 AM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Obituary: Binyavanga Wainaina

Dear All,
This is a forum for scholars and thinkers. We deal with facts. So, instead of just indulging in beer parlour banters, let us deal with facts. If people care enough about the subject of African homosexuality and its history, they'll read Queer African Reader. There are also several journalism articles and scholarly works on the subjects. Use Google. It's your friend.

By the way, 8 years ago, I reviewed an article for a scholarly journal. The anonymous author argues that the Yoruba people accepted the reality of homosexuality, but that heterosexuality is privileged. Yoruba people, he says, historically, do (did) not condone homophobia, instead same-sex desire is reduced to a spectre - a shadow of history.

In my research, I see similar trend in many West African cultures. Historically, in some pre-colonial societies in today's Congo and Angola, studies have shown that homosexuality was seen as a symbol of mystical power.

Anyway, here is an excerpt from the peer-reviewed article, on same-sex desire in Yoruba culture:

"This is depicted in the excerpts below taken from Ifá literature, Ìwòrì-wòfín and Ìwòrìwòdí respectively.
Epo ṣeé jẹsu
Iṣu ṣeé jepo
Àkàsọ̀ ló dùn ún gàká
Obìnrin ṣe é basùn jọkùnrin lọ
Ọkùnrin ṣe é sùn tì jobìnrin lọ-5
Bọ́kúnrin bá ń bọ́kùnrin ín sùn
Bí i kókó, bí i oówo ni
Bí ikù, bí àgbáàrín
Bóbìnrin bá ń bóbìnrin ín sùn
Bí èpẹ̀tẹ̀, bí òórùn-10
Bí ẹrọ̀fọ̀, bí èérí
Bọ́kúnrin bá ń bóbìnrin ín sùn
Bóbìnrin bá ń sùn tọ́kùnrin ín
Bí ẹni ń fọlá yunpun ni
Bí ẹni ń fọlá yunra ni-15
Igi Ọ̀fún-Rẹtẹ̀ ló ró gangan-òlèlè
A díá fún Àpọ́n-Àko
Níjọ́ tí ń lọ lèé fỌ̀lẹ́lẹ́ ọmọ Ọlọ́fà ṣaya
Àpọ́n p'Ọ̀lẹ́lẹ́ kò jẹ́ o!
Kò ju ohun t'Ífá ń ṣe lọ-20
Àpọ́n p'Ọ̀lẹ́lẹ́ kò jẹ́ o!
Kò ju ohun t'Ẹ́bọra ń ṣe lọ.[1]

(Boiled yam is good to be eaten with palm oil
Palm oil is good to be eaten with boiled yam
Ladder is good to climb a barn/rafter
It is pleasant for a man to have sexual intercourse with a woman
It is pleasant for a woman to have sexual intercourse with a man-5
If a man is having sexual intercourse with another man
It results into lumps, boils and yaws
It results into various diseases
If a woman is having sexual intercourse with another woman
It results into murk and fowl odour,-10
It results into mud and dirt
(But) if a man is having intercourse with a woman
(Or) if a woman is having intercourse with a man
It makes them feel they are on top of the world
It makes both of them to have unlimited bliss-15
It was the penis of Ọ̀fún-Rẹtẹ̀ that became extremely turgid and stiff
Ifá divination was made for a chronic Bachelor (Àpọ́n-Àko)
On the day he was going to propose to Ọ̀lẹ́lẹ́ the daughter of Ọlófà
Àpón-Àko proposed to Ọ̀lẹ́lẹ́ but she declined
Such a problem is not too big to be solved by Ifá-20
Àpón-Àko proposed to Òlélé but she declined
Such a problem is not too big to be solved by Ifá (Ẹbọra).

________________________________
[1] Similar Odù can be seen in "The position of Ifá on homosexuality/lesbianism", Ẹlérìí Ìpín, the Magazine of the International Council for Ifá Religion, 2006, Issue Number 2, pages 5 and 6.

On Tue, 28 May 2019 at 09:30, Ibukunolu A Babajide <ibk2005@gmail.com<mailto:ibk2005@gmail.com>> wrote:
In Yoruba language, a hermaphrodite is called "AKIRIBOTO" and there is a saying that goes thus; "akiriboto ki I l'oju awe" meaning that the Akiribito has no vaginal cleavage.

Let us distinguish between the factual natural occurrence and the social practices that may attend some behaviors that are banned in certain cultures.  In many cultures same sex romantic love is an abomination and there is no name for it and those caught at it ate practically sacrificed to the gods.  Societies like that may have no name for lesbian or gay behavior.

Cheers.

IBK


_________________________
Ibukunolu Alao Babajide (IBK)
(+2348061276622) / ibk2005@gmail.com<mailto:ibk2005@gmail.com>

AN ENGLISH NURSERY RHYME
The law locks up the man or woman
Who steals the goose from off the common
But leaves the greater villain loose
Who steals the common from off the goose

The law demands that we atone
When we take things that we do not own
But leaves the lords and ladies fine
Who take things that are yours and mine

The poor and wretched don't escape
If they conspire the law to break
This must be so but they endure
Those who conspire to make the law

The law locks up the man or woman
Who steals the goose from off the common
And geese will still a common lack
Till they go and steal it back
 -        Anonymous (circa 1764)


On Mon, 27 May 2019 at 23:29, OLAYINKA AGBETUYI <yagbetuyi@hotmail.com<mailto:yagbetuyi@hotmail.com>> wrote:
If there are no names for these conditions in African languages it means they are not sufficiently prevalent to warrant linguistic transactional currencies denominated in words.

OAA



Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.


-------- Original message --------
From: "Obinna ." <bizmen@hotmail.com<mailto:bizmen@hotmail.com>>
Date: 27/05/2019 20:48 (GMT+00:00)
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com<mailto:usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Obituary: Binyavanga Wainaina

[Boxbe]<https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.boxbe.com%2Foverview&data=01%7C01%7Cemeagwali%40ccsu.edu%7Caf8424c38f7c41054c6008d6e3899ddb%7C2329c570b5804223803b427d800e81b6%7C0&sdata=ZFyy%2B28TUiQYDG%2FSYYy%2BVA4CtBEVFFRYf6ZMCRMZa8w%3D&reserved=0>[http://www.boxbe.com/stfopen?tc_serial=49784368204&tc_rand=1478352281&utm_source=stf&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=ANNO_CLEANUP_ADD&utm_content=001]This message is eligible for Automatic Cleanup! (bizmen@hotmail.com<mailto:bizmen@hotmail.com>) Add cleanup rule<https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.boxbe.com%2Fpopup%3Furl%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fwww.boxbe.com%252Fcleanup%253Fkey%253DUDYa3pmOszAxWV3lq2swRewJPWIW9dJHSMYOw8f3stg%25253D%2526token%253DhvNUqP61kVRO9pg2jnu4TzdluInErHzqAHXXTc4zsW5shTd8C9RdBRudOOEEcv71%25252FBbi5AYsbLwh1Cy7x0cKkmeFT4neYbwtk1JjLt6urXL2UqQRdTJ%25252BT3BwEkIYU1BBL80xh8NH3Qs%25253D%26tc_serial%3D49784368204%26tc_rand%3D1478352281%26utm_source%3Dstf%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_campaign%3DANNO_CLEANUP_ADD%26utm_content%3D001&data=01%7C01%7Cemeagwali%40ccsu.edu%7Caf8424c38f7c41054c6008d6e3899ddb%7C2329c570b5804223803b427d800e81b6%7C0&sdata=P7FRZJnx6Dx5GW7mu8qeekHHwKjc3cr%2B%2BlrUeW2bvwQ%3D&reserved=0> | More info<https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fblog.boxbe.com%2Fgeneral%2Fboxbe-automatic-cleanup%3Ftc_serial%3D49784368204%26tc_rand%3D1478352281%26utm_source%3Dstf%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_campaign%3DANNO_CLEANUP_ADD%26utm_content%3D001&data=01%7C01%7Cemeagwali%40ccsu.edu%7Caf8424c38f7c41054c6008d6e3899ddb%7C2329c570b5804223803b427d800e81b6%7C0&sdata=uO15JTp0KcjzbQPC4oIkSj7H%2FCFqcwo7NE3%2B%2Fh8B07k%3D&reserved=0>
Are there indigenous names for hermaphrodite (intersex) people, pedophile, serial killer, genocide, etc in all the languages in Africa? Or they've never occurred in Africa?

________________________________
From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com<mailto:usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com<mailto:usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>> on behalf of Salimonu Kadiri <ogunlakaiye@hotmail.com<mailto:ogunlakaiye@hotmail.com>>
Sent: Monday, May 27, 2019 12:01 PM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com<mailto:usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Sv: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Obituary: Binyavanga Wainaina

​If there were homosexuals in Africa until recently, and not fake  ones, there should be in indigenous name for the practice in all the languages in Africa. Starting from your mother tongue, what name is homosexual called in that language?
S.Kadiri

________________________________
Från: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com<mailto:usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com<mailto:usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>> för Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju <toyin.adepoju@gmail.com<mailto:toyin.adepoju@gmail.com>>
Skickat: den 27 maj 2019 20:30
Till: usaafricadialogue
Ämne: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Obituary: Binyavanga Wainaina

My friend Salimonu,

Binyavanga Wainaina was very serious about his sexuality. It was no joke at all. The context of his self declaration was very serious.

Of what relevance is it to my existence if anyone things me  gay or bi-sexual?

I dont really care if anyone thinks me gay or bi-sexual bcs I once claimed to be gay and later retracted or posted Juan Philip's splendid pics. A fine physique is a fine physique. Also, all men know that a fine specimen in all aspects of the anatomy is admired by both heterosexual men and and heterosexual women.

Also, how do you know there are no homosexuals in Africa?

toyin



On Mon, 27 May 2019 at 17:16, Salimonu Kadiri <ogunlakaiye@hotmail.com<mailto:ogunlakaiye@hotmail.com>> wrote:
​Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju confessed to have falsely declared himself a *gay*on his Facebook wall in a playful mood. His confession was meant to impress on his reader's mind that that the late Binyavanga Wainaina's public declaration that he was a *gay* might have been a pretence or a play to the gallery. Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju self-declared *fake gay* reminds me of the late right wing London racist, Enoch Powell, who once said that Black people always meet every problem in life with laughter, drum-assisted song and dance. Africans, and Nigerians in particular, never take anything we do seriously. We have casual and joking approach to everything we do while constantly laughing at our own humiliation. Kenneth Harrow was correct when he observed that Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju would have been vilified in the US for faking to be a gay because people there take whatever they do seriously. A lot of Nigerians are like Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju, they love to copy everything that is bad in Europe and America while leaving good things. In the name of freedom of expression, Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju, on Thursday, 6 September 2018, posted on this forum not only a naked picture of one Julian Phillips but with an erected penis gushing out sperm. Was Mr. Adepoju pretending to be a by-sexual? The word gay or homosexual has no equivalent word in any of the indigenous languages of Nigeria just as, for examples, motorcycle or television. For instance, a gay or homosexual being a recent phenomenon would be translated descriptively in Yoruba language as ADÓ-FÙRÒ, meaning anus fucker just as their encounter with foreign introduced motorbicycle or television is descriptively called ALÙ-PÙPÙ and AMÓHÙN-M'ÁWÒRAN respectively. The plain knowledge that there are no homosexuals in Africa led the US to propagate the idea that HIV originated in Africa where it is spread heterosexually while in Europe and the US it is spread mainly among the homosexuals, drug addicts and prostitutes. Following the history of HIV/AIDS, no self-respecting African will on any serious note claim to be a Gay in other to attract the friendship of Europeans and Americans.​
S. Kadiri

________________________________
Från: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com<mailto:usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com<mailto:usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>> för Shola Adenekan <sholaadenekan@gmail.com<mailto:sholaadenekan@gmail.com>>
Skickat: den 25 maj 2019 15:00
Till: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com<mailto:usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Ämne: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Obituary: Binyavanga Wainaina

Thanks, Kenneth, for pointing this out. My apologies, Oluwatoyin, for this particular mistake.

Ire o.
Shọla

On Sat, May 25, 2019, 14:55 Harrow, Kenneth <harrow@msu.edu<mailto:harrow@msu.edu>> wrote:
shola, it wasn't oluwatoyin who wrote "vilified for pretending to be gay" but me. i said that in the west publicly writing, i am gay, and then saying, sorry, just kidding, would be regarded as slighting gays, and would incur disapprobation.
ken

kenneth harrow
professor emeritus
dept of english
michigan state university
517 803-8839
harrow@msu.edu<mailto:harrow@msu.edu>
________________________________
From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com<mailto:usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com<mailto:usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>> on behalf of Shola Adenekan <sholaadenekan@gmail.com<mailto:sholaadenekan@gmail.com>>
Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2019 6:39:36 AM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com<mailto:usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Obituary: Binyavanga Wainaina

Oluwatoyin, I don't know what in Laaroye's name you meant by " villified for pretending to be gay"!

Ire l'ọjọ gbogbo.
Shọla

On Sat, May 25, 2019, 12:12 Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju <toyin.adepoju@gmail.com<mailto:toyin.adepoju@gmail.com>> wrote:
vilified for pretending to be gay?

On Fri, 24 May 2019 at 23:33, Harrow, Kenneth <harrow@msu.edu<mailto:harrow@msu.edu>> wrote:
imagine the impact if you had done this in the states (you'd have been vilified)
two different worlds of consciousnesses
k

kenneth harrow
professor emeritus
dept of english
michigan state university
517 803-8839
harrow@msu.edu<mailto:harrow@msu.edu>
________________________________
From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com<mailto:usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com<mailto:usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>> on behalf of Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju <toyin.adepoju@gmail.com<mailto:toyin.adepoju@gmail.com>>
Sent: Friday, May 24, 2019 12:36:56 PM
To: usaafricadialogue
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Obituary: Binyavanga Wainaina

On a more playful note-

I once declared myself as gay on my Facebook wall.

I stated that I had been holding the secret inward for so long and could bear it no more.

I enjoyed myself thoroughly as people struggled to cope with my declaration.

I later stated, on the same thread, that my account had been hacked and I had reported the issue to the CIA.

All part of the fun.

I observed that a relative of mine clicked "like' on my later declaration of my account being hacked, suggesting he had been following developments on that post.

A lady who privately stated she saw me as a prospective amorous interest told me she was backing down bcs of my declaration.

I might have lost at least one Facebook friend bcs of that declaration.

The post was actually my response to a dare circulating at the time suggesting outrageous things once could do in the social media public space.

My life style then was such that such a declaration had no significant impact on my life.

That would of course be very different for such a public figure as Binyavanga Wainaina.

toyin






On Fri, 24 May 2019 at 13:22, OLAYINKA AGBETUYI <yagbetuyi@hotmail.com<mailto:yagbetuyi@hotmail.com>> wrote:
I think we should be honest in spite of empathy that he died of HIV complications if he had ttwo strokes after his disclosure.

Has anyone any statistics of percentages per population of gay communities in African countries?

My experience in the diaspora for the past 3 decades is that people from East and South Africa are more prone to declare themselves gay than other regions. This in the UK may be due to social housing issues.

 Three decades ago if you declared yourself gay you would get a jump up the housing queue to the top and be guaranteed almost immediate housing ( that was before STONEWALL which multiplied gay declarations.)  Someone actually advised me then to declare myself gay for immediate housing but I thought of the implications of maintaining the false facade indefinitely and declined.

I know that the incidence of deceitful declarations still goes on mainly from immigrants from East Africa.  I accessed the what's app profile of a former Somali young adult learner of mine only to find she declared herself F& F. (young adults with babies used to get preferential treatment in housing decades ago but govt cracked down in that leaving them in hotels nowadays for up to 3 years)
Another  homeless Somali lady after a few children confided she had declared herself gay to beat the much hardened social housing ladder saying she now has a gay ' 'partner'  This is why I am asking for the statistics.  I know writers like Ayi Kwei Armah attributes prevalence of gay culture in East Africa to  legacy of Arab enslavement of East Africans.  But his was a creative writers view and not strictly sociological.

OAA



Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
-------- Original message --------
From: Shola Adenekan <sholaadenekan@gmail.com<mailto:sholaadenekan@gmail.com>>
Date: 22/05/2019 21:22 (GMT+00:00)
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com<mailto:usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Obituary: Binyavanga Wainaina

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Dear All,
Binyavanga Wainaina is (was) a He. He was born in January 1971, and he didn't die of HIV infection. He suffered a stroke, his second in four years. People rarely survive two strokes.
I hope this helps? Please show some empathy and thoughtfulness in your comments with regard to the great man.

Ire l'ọjọ gbogbo o.
Shola

On Wed, May 22, 2019, 15:40 'Michael Afolayan' via USA Africa Dialogue Series <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com<mailto:usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>> wrote:
What a shame, and a big loss! I assume he succumbed to the HIV infection he announced courageously some four or five years ago before getting married to the Nigerian guy. May we all be comforted by this mammoth loss. Wow!
MOA




On Wednesday, May 22, 2019, 8:11:57 AM CDT, Chidi Anthony Opara, FIIM <chidi.opara@gmail.com<mailto:chidi.opara@gmail.com>> wrote:


Rest in peace brother!

I liked you but never liked your gay activism, but it was your choice and I respected that.

Peace to your creative soul brother!

CAO.

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Regards,
Dr. Shola Adenekan
African Literature and Cultures
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