Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Christian hate speech arrest in Finland

Baba Kadiri,

Are not all men equal?

Consider this list.

The Quranic references to Sodom and Gomorrah and that  Yasser Al-Habib 's views may be based on the verses you have quoted don't change the reality of homosexuality in the world, from ancient times to now. Of course, there are some orthodox rabbis such as Rabbi Avraham ben Yaakov who says more or less exactly what you say in this thread. Some years ago, using very strong language in his commentary on the Torah Portion Vayeira (which was read in all synagogues on the 16^th of November this year) he said,

 "The inhabitants of Sodom enjoyed a fabulous, green watered spa in what is the world's lowest point. They turned "G-d's garden" into a center devoted purely to the worship of self to the exclusion of all others. This finds its ultimate expression in sodomy, which was the sin of Ham when he uncovered his father's nakedness (see Rashi on Gen. 9:22). Sodomy is an extreme violation of the Covenant, which decrees that human sexuality is to be elevated to serve as the bond that brings husband and wife together in procreating and raising holy souls. Instead of this, sodomy degrades and abuses man's highest creative power, his seed, throwing it into the very gutter, the part of the body designed to expel poisonous waste and filth. Sodomy degrades both the passive partner, who is subjugated and used, and the active partner, who is turned into a selfish, lustful animal" (On the destruction of Sodom)

Which does not mean that in the Holy Land of Israel, the Land of the Bible which you quote ( consider that all the Hebrew prophets except one, only preached in the land of Israel), that Tel Aviv is about to cease being the Mecca of the Gay, for the simple reason that Israel is not a theocracy. Nor is Nigeria, the holy Nigerian Constitution notwithstanding. On the other hand, even if the Bible and the Quran serve as the moral foundations of Nigeria's legislation on private sexual practices of Nigeria's citizens, the constitution was not written in stone, is amenable to change and I guess  that it can be amended unless of course tomorrow's Boko Haram Revolution sweeps it aside altogether and imposes Sharia Law on everybody's ass including the homosexual practitioners. ( I Imagine that is someone in this forum had been focused on prominent male buttocks instead of  the female protrusion entitled  "Carrying the treasure across the road",  Baba Kadiri would have taken an even much stronger moral stand…

Apart from preaching traditional Yoruba attitudes, Bible, Quran and the Nigerian Constitution of today, and apart from feeling "pity", can Baba Kadiri suggest any plans on how to deal with that aspect of human nature, apart from the mass execution (genocide) or mass incarceration of such practitioners. As to the death penalty – imagine, a future time when such draconian measures would be repealed and the regret about those already executed who, sadly, cannot be brought back to life?

Fortunately, or unfortunately, Nigeria has not yet got to the point where there are any discussions about same-sex marriage being sanctified by church or (God forbid) in the mosque.

This is recent news:  100 Orthodox Rabbis Issue Same Sex Marriage Declaration

 

 

On Sunday, 8 December 2019 18:09:58 UTC+1, ogunlakaiye wrote:

​Rabbi Hamelberg, 

​You must have missed my post of 6 December 2019, which was in response to Professor Kperogi's post of 30 November 2019. If you have no time to read it I endeavour here to restate parts of the Quran that condemn same-sex intercourse. Surah Al-A'raf 7 :80-81 where Lut asked and told his people, "Will you persist in these indecent acts which no other nation has committed before you? You lust after men instead of women. Truly, you are a degenerate people." Surah Al-Shu'ara 26 : 165-175, Lut asked and told his people again, "Will you fornicate with males and leave your wives, whom Allah has created for you? Surely you are great transgressors." In Surah Al-Naml 27 : 55, Lut asked and told his people, "Do you commit indecencies while you see? Do you lustfully seek men instead of women? Surely, you are ignorant people." Also in Surah AL-Ankabut 29 : 28, Lut said to his people, "You commit indecent acts which no other nation has committed before you. You lust after men instead of women. You turn your very gatherings into orgies." 

​Biologically, every part of human body is designed to perform pre-determined function(s). Thus, if one feels like standing on the head to walk instead of the feet  neighbours will call the police who will take the person to the nearest psychiatric hospital for examination and adjustment to normal biological behaviour. The same reaction and treatment will face a person who feels or chooses to eat through the nostrils instead of the mouth. In plain language, the anus is not created for sexual intercourse, but for exit of faecal matters and farting. One can pity those who feel that the anus is a sexual organ and by pointing at the abnormality can never make one a homophobe or hater of the homosexuals.

S. Kadiri  

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Baba Kadiri,

Nigeria is still a secular state, although it will not be secular very much longer if Boko Haram were to have their way. Still, it's well within your right to quote Bible and Quran ( although I'm not aware of any verse in the Quran that explicitly forbids it – apart from Surah Al-Baqarah ayat 189 that says that houses should be entered through their front doors – which has been variously  interpreted to mean that anal intercourse is strictly prohibited –  on the other hand, some Shia Muslims such as Kuwaiti Sheikh Yasser Al-Habib  make big bones about it and preach hatefully and contemptuously, against homosexuality.

There is surely a difference between homophobia and homophobic hate speech, especially the kind of homophonic hate speech which wants to punish same-sex relationship by the death penalty, for example.

That distinction is somewhat complicated by the country constitutions that relegate that type of human sexual behaviour to a criminal offence punishable by imprisonment and in some case by the death penalty   

I know how you feel, but consider, some men were created or feel differently, and just as it would not be an easy task to convert you to that kind of behaviour, so too it could be difficult to convert a lesbian...

On Saturday, 7 December 2019 23:35:36 UTC+1, ogunlakaiye wrote:

​Thank you Gloria for posting the link below. I observe that Päivi Räsänen, a Christian politician and a member of Finish Parliament was only interrogated at the police headquarters in a hate speech investigation for sharing  Romans 1: 24-27 in the Bible on Social Media. Päivi Räsänen's action was premised on the participation of the Evangelical Church of Finland in the homosexual parade called Helsinki Pride in June 2019. Since June 2019, Päivi Räsänen remains interrogated and not prosecuted for hate speech and I am very certain it is going to remain as such for eternity. There was precedence, not in Finland but in, Sweden, her neighbouring country.

​In the Swedish off-shore island of Öland, a Pentecostal Church Pastor by name Åke Green, preached in a Borgholm Church in the presence of 50 people. From the pulpit, he asked his audience rhetorically, is homosexuality something one chooses? He answered self, yes. One chooses it. One is not born with it. Pastor Green continued, "Sexual abnormalities are a deep cancer torus on the body of the whole society. The Lord knows that sexually perverted people will even rape animals; By legalising partnership between man and man and between woman and woman, it is simply going to create catastrophe of unknown dimension. We see already the consequences of this. We see it genom AIDS which is spreading. Now not all AIDS afflicted are homosexuals, but it has originated on the ground of this once upon a time; It is a scandal to let innocent children be subjected to this torture. One assaults a child through adoption from parents, from mother and father, to two men or two women; and, Now   I must emphasize that not all homosexuals are paedophiles or perverted, but one opens the gate to the forbidden in violation to procreation order; Homosexuals are more inclined to have sex with children and animals. Concluding, Pastor Åke Green referred to Apostle Paul words in the Bible, Romans 1 : 26-27." The above was the sermon of Pastor Åke Green in a Borgholm Church on 20 July 2003 for which he was sentenced to six months jail on 29 June 2004 for hate speech against same sex practitioners by a Kalmar Magistrate Court. On appeal to the High Court, Pastor Green was discharge and acquitted of hate speech crime whereby the prosecuted appealed to the Swedish Supreme Court. On 29 November 2005, the Supreme Court decided that none of the speeches attributed to pastor Åke Green from the pulpit contains a direct threat or incitement to violence against the homosexuals. The Court referred to Article 9 and 10 of the European Convention that guarantees freedom of Religion and freedom of expression respectively under which the statements of Pastor Åke Green fell. Therefore, the Court concluded that the said speeches did not constitute hate speech.

​To the Christian believers, the Bible contains the words of God and his instructions to human beings. As long as the Bible is allowed to be in circulation all over the world, its contents must be cited freely without obstruction. The only option open to pro-Sodomites who want to propagate same-sex intercourse is to ban Bible and Quran from circulation. Some friendly homosexual Christans have hypocritically preached that Jesus loved everybody including the homosexuals, which was why he died on the cross to wipe away human sins. Yet when the Pharisees asked him if he had come to change the Mosaic Laws, he replied, "Think not that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfil them. Truly, I say to you, till Heaven and Earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot will change from the law until all is accomplished. Whoever changes one of the least of the commandments, and teaches men so shall be the least in the Kingdom of Heaven (Mathew 5 :17-19)" And in Luke 16 : 17, Jesus said, "Itis easier for heaven and earth to pass away, than for one dot of the law to become void." I have brought the injunctions of the Bible and Quran into the discussion because Professor Farooq A. Kperogi had inferred that the criminalization of homosexuality by the Nigerian Senate constitutes hate speech.

S. Kadiri 

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Från: usaafric...@googlegroups.com <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> för Gloria Emeagwali <gloria....@gmail.com>
Skickat: den 7 december 2019 03:38
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Ämne: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Christian hate speech arrest in Finland

 

https://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/cwn/2019/october/christian-speech-a-hate-crime-politician-faces-police-interrogation-for-posting-bible-verse

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