Dialogues: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series

Dear all,

I will bring my ''grain de sel'' into this discussion.

Although the rethoric is common, it is unfair or at least partial to say that the traditional rulers sold their children to the Barclays, Newtons, etc. When one historicizes the relations between European nations with Africa at least from the eve of western modernity (ie 15th century) one can grasp what happened.

For instance, Georges Balandier in his book The daily life in the kingdom of Kongo (1968), explained what happened with Portuguese missionaries in the 15th century when they went into relations with the Kongo. From cordial relations that led to sending ambassadors to Lisbon and vice versa, the king of Kongo started sending young boys to Lisbon to study. It is in that context that the first indigenous bishop was trained and rule the diocese of Kongo in 1504-1506 (circa). This was the context when Christopher Columbus went to the America and that later bishop Las Casas plead for the replacement of America's indigenous people with Kongo people that used to be sent to Lisbon and other nations.

Another argument is that when we look through the constitutions of African empires and kingdoms (the Mande chart or 51 laws of Huegbadja in Danxome, etc.), there is no place for slave in the sense of what happened during the transatlantic deportation. A contrario, Colbert in France was the one who theorized on the status of the Black man in order to justify the deportation. So, we Africans should stop perpetuating this idea that our ancestors sold their children. The fact was far more complex and Western nations also erased or hided a lot of documents that could help bring light into this dark part of our common history.

Dr Emery Patrick EFFIBOLEY

Assistant Professor,

Department of History and Archaeology, University of Abomey-Calavi

Andrew W. Mellon Postdoctoral Research Fellow, University of the Witwatersrand,Johannesburg,(2014-2016)

www.researchgate.net/Profile/Emery_Effiboley

Le mardi 30 juin 2020 à 20:50:13 UTC+1, 'Michael Afolayan' via USA Africa Dialogue Series <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> a écrit :

I am an "Omo Ode"; missiles are my toys (a polite way of saying, bring it on, Gloria).

Mr. Barclays, Mr. Yale, Fr. Newton, etc., are not my folks. I'll let their own people deal with them. I am at liberty to talk senses to the skulls of my people, am I not? Yep, the last I heard, it was not a "Not-for-profit" NGO business for those Yoruba Obas either. They better pay - serious restitution money I'm talking about here, because they sold their folks to the Barclayses, the Yales, and the Newtons. Some of us are ashamed of their deeds and regardless of what their apologists say about them, we still hold them equally accountable; after all, if they did not create the cracks on their walls, those lizards could not crawl in and haul their folks away.

Just my protest. My in-laws are a part of the culprits.

MOA

===

On Tuesday, June 30, 2020, 1:31:17 PM EDT, Emeagwali, Gloria (History) <emeagwali@ccsu.edu> wrote:

Oh my! A missile is more effective than a rock-

and a boomerang could always inflict the sender.

So children of Obas should pay for the huge

profits made by Mr. Alexander Barclays, Mr Yale,

and the "gracefully amazing" Right Reverend Father John Newton and his likes.Well I would agree with you if you can establish the following:

1. That the Obas placed ads in Europe advertising for "buyers."

2. That the Obas owned the pickup ships that

plied the Atlantic.

3. That the Obas were aware of the enormity of the activities and systematic, sustained forced labor and psychological terror that ensued on the other side of the Atlantic.

4. That the Obas gained resources and profits commensurate with that of the European traffickers.

5. That inter generational wealth transfer has accrued in the African regions thus involved, at the scale of the recipient countries.

6. That all the Obas consented to this activity without force, intimidation, and divide and rule

strategies being applied and that no Oba

resisted the traffickers.

Professor Gloria Emeagwali
Prof. of History/African Studies, CCSU
africahistory.net; vimeo.com/ gloriaemeagwali
Recipient of the 2014 Distinguished Research
Excellence Award, Univ. of Texas at Austin;
2019 Distinguished Africanist Award
New York African Studies Association

From: 'Michael Afolayan' via USA Africa Dialogue Series <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2020 11:09 AM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - To In Excelsis Gloria :

Please be cautious: **External Email**

At the risk of getting rocks thrown in my direction, I still think those who should pay the bulk of the reparation should be children of Yoruba Obas along the Atlantic Coast, who sold their folks to the Whiteman out of their wanton greed and self hate!

MOA

On Tuesday, June 30, 2020, 9:14:54 AM EDT, OLAYINKA AGBETUYI <yagbetuyi@hotmail.com> wrote:

OU.

You struck the nail right on the head.

Some smart Alec musician in 2004 once asked me a similar question on a flight from the US to London.

I said to him the communities where slaves were taken should be beneficiaries of reparations.

If we cannot deny children their inheritance simply because the person who worked for the wealth is no longer here we cannot deny liabilities for the source of the wealth if the wealth is fraudulently acquired.

This is why there is contemporary money laundering laws.

If slave reparations are unrecoverable then the Abacha loot should be unrecoverable and his children should have the right to keep the loot since they stole no money. Never mind that the loot originally belonged to other people whose name is not Abacha.

OAA

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.

-------- Original message --------

From: 'Okechukwu Ukaga' via USA Africa Dialogue Series <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>

Date: 30/06/2020 04:59 (GMT+00:00)

To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - To In Excelsis Gloria :

This message is eligible for Automatic Cleanup! (usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com) Add cleanup rule | More info

One possible reason is inheritance. People do inherit the assets and liabilities of their forefathers.

On Jun 29, 2020 8:27 PM, "Cornelius Hamelberg" <hamelbergcornelius4@gmail.com> wrote:

Please, short of spitting fire and venom, how does one begin to approach this question :

Why should people who never owned slaves give money to people who never were slaves?

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Tuesday, June 30, 2020

Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - To In Excelsis Gloria :

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