Which great scholars and creatives are self taught in todays world?
Your Afolayan and Falola work benefitted from the paucity of scholars willing to specialise in philosophy ( and that is why Falola is floating a prize to attract scholars to this discipline.) It does not speak of any expertise in ordinary meaning of the word.e. people who engage in scholarship postgraduation involving dozens of book on the subject. It is better than nothing so self- congratulations are in order?
Wariboko' philosophical expertise in western philosophy flows from his theological training as he and I know. These are key requirements. His knowledge of Kalabari thought is comparable to mine in Ifa. They are native. But does that make your learning comparable to his. Your knowledge of western thought is in no way comparable to mine having been steeped formally in the major fields yet I am very, very far from whom you may describe as an expert let alone a genius.
Your position is that of opportunism. But it has its limitations. Period.
OAA
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
-------- Original message --------
From: Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju <toyin.adepoju@gmail.com>
Date: 25/11/2020 23:00 (GMT+00:00)
To: usaafricadialogue <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Between a Spiral, a CircleandaStraight Line: How Do I Tell My Life's Story?
We salute Hallen and Sodipo.
Knowledge, Belief and Witchcraft, ''In the House of Inu,'' among others.
But, a lot of great scholars and creatives are self taught.
But, a lot of great scholars and creatives are self taught.
They could have formal training in one field, and achieve mastery in other fields.
Some might have no formal training at all.
Some might have no formal training at all.
So, this idea that a person has to be formally trained, by others in a discipline to attain mastery puzzles me.
You are invoking Wariboko whose degrees are in economics, business administration and theology, not Continental or Kalabari philosophy or urban thought, subjects central to the distinctiveness of his work.
Our dear Toyin Falola has all his degrees in history, but we know the multidisciplinary character of his work.
Even then, why not simply engage your interlocutor on the issues instead of insisting on traditional training?
Along with Ifa and Ogboni I am also reworking Hindu Sri Vidya, Akan Adinkra, Fulani Kaidara, Ekpe Nsibidi, Benin Olokun, Dogon Nommo thought, and the thought of Toyin Falola and Nimi Wariboko.
I can provide the relevant links to these works so you may examine them.
You busy yourself with trying to disprove Adepoju but the very masters in various fields insist on recognising him.
I can provide the relevant links to these works so you may examine them.
You busy yourself with trying to disprove Adepoju but the very masters in various fields insist on recognising him.
My essays in the Oxford Encyclopedia of African Thought, 2011 on the central Yoruba origin Orisa cosmology concepts and disciplines Ifa/Odu, Ori, Orisa and on Ghanaian Akan and Gyaman Adinkra visual symbolism, all these being areas in which I am self taught, were commissioned by the editor Abiola Irele.
My essay on art and creativity in the Palgrave Handbook of African Philosophy was commissioned by the editors Toyin Falola and Adeshina Afolayan but my degrees are in literature, not art.
My essay on the artist Owosu Ankomah in the book on him Microcron was commissioned by the artist himself, yet I am not formally trained in art criticism.
My essay in the Palgrave Handbook of African Social Ethics was commissioned by Adeshina Afolayan yet I have no formal training in that field.
My essay on Wariboko in The Philosophy of Nimi Wariboko book covers almost every aspect of his work yet I am not formally trained in the fields he is centred in.
My essay on art and creativity in the Palgrave Handbook of African Philosophy was commissioned by the editors Toyin Falola and Adeshina Afolayan but my degrees are in literature, not art.
My essay on the artist Owosu Ankomah in the book on him Microcron was commissioned by the artist himself, yet I am not formally trained in art criticism.
My essay in the Palgrave Handbook of African Social Ethics was commissioned by Adeshina Afolayan yet I have no formal training in that field.
My essay on Wariboko in The Philosophy of Nimi Wariboko book covers almost every aspect of his work yet I am not formally trained in the fields he is centred in.
My essay on developing the mystical potential of Ifa was submitted on the request of an academic editor who likes my work on classical African systems of thought, and is awaiting publication.
Is it not time you saw things differently?
thanks
toyin
On Wed, 25 Nov 2020 at 21:19, OLAYINKA AGBETUYI <yagbetuyi@hotmail.com> wrote:
--Toyin Adepoju:
I learn from anyone and everyone both my in- class students and my professors and mentors. I learn from my adult students even as at today. I was discussing with my half Igbo/ half Yorùbá young adult graduate learner during the weekend ( early 20s) and its quite rewarding what she reconfirmed as the Biafran War causes which 60 something plus neo- Biafrans on our listserv pretend not to know about the causes.
But in recognised fields and disciplines I learn from the masters. That is the only way quackery will not be passed on as expertise. This is how and why formal education thrives. In literary translation we call it authority bestowed.
You cannot, being no graduate of Ifá' transform Ifá to what is not acceptable to Ifá authority and pass it on. That is recognised as disguised fraud. The same goes for Ògbóni.
Look at it this way: All the foreign universities in which you claimed you learned, if you told them you only picked up the University of Benin prospectus and course offerings and read up all the itemised book listing as a result of which you thought you had knowledge of a university graduate and call yourself a BA holder ( having not attended the university and passed the required courses) from that same university would they not describe you as a fraudster and deny you admission for graduate studies?
Why do you choose to rate Ifá lnstitution and Ògbóni institution so low you can ride roughshod over them while pretending to do the Yorùbá a ' favour' by helping to spread their civilization? The Yoruba dont need such favours.
I refer you to one of my own philosophical mentors ( who gave me perhaps the greatest grounding in western philosoohy) Barry Hallen who for decades have done what you began within the last few years when we saw you groping in the dark unable to come to terms with or decide on what to do with your sudden premature return to Nigeria.
Barry Hallen worked closely with our HOD (late) Olubi Sodipo to understand and push the boundaries of Yoruba philosophy. He understood he could not impose Western philisoohy on Yoruba philosoohy; he understood you could not merge the two as you attempt to do. He knew he could not independently rework anything or construct ' 'universal' version of anything single- handedly. He is basically a honest man in search if no cheap pseudo heroism. This is why we accept him as a true master of philosophy.
You can see how far Nimi Wariboko has gone, coming home ( more on him later) and you can see how austere he is; not pontificating everywhere and not misallocating precious time to be spent on rigorous research, web-site- crawling looking for sensationalisms.
Where did he describe himself as genius?.....I scratch my head now because I cannot recollect...
OAA
Mr. President you took an oath to rule according to the Constitution.
Where are the schools to promote the teaching of the country's lingua francas?
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
-------- Original message --------From: Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju <toyin.adepoju@gmail.com>Date: 25/11/2020 17:42 (GMT+00:00)To: usaafricadialogue <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Between a Spiral, a Circle andaStraight Line: How Do I Tell My Life's Story?
😎😀🙄🎼🔭🍷🌐♨🌉🔥🏇
Contemplative presences from the Yoruba origin Ogboni, bottom left, Buddhism, top left, Gabon, middle,
and self portrait by French artist Paul Gauguin, bottom left.
Collage by myself
My brother Agbetuyi,
You could not have been more helpful to me than if we were collaborators.
I can be reasonably certain that you will read any composition of mine posted on this forum.
I can also be sure that your reading will pick out strategic issues that would benefit from being further clarified and elaborated upon, which you will often take pains to point out.
If not for your challenges in particular, I wonder if I would have composed my comprehensive essay on AMORC, nor the elaboration of my work on Ogboni that has flowered into a significant body of theory and practice.
You also raised some vital questions on the logic of correlating cognitive systems in my earlier post about ''The Adepoju System of Initiation into African, Asian and Western Philosophies and Spiritualities,'' questions I would have loved to answer, elaborations that would be priceless for my work, issues raised by you as insightful as if you were a critically acute book or journal editor assessing a paper.
Your latest challenges on my description of my biography are also insightful.
My only problem with your engagement is the determined hostility that the work of Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju seems to inspire in you, leading to the cloaking of critical insight in vitriol, the muddying of discourse in insults, the ad hominems that spoil what would otherwise have been beautiful debate.
I get the impression that you are challenged by what seems to be the egocentric persona of Adepoju, presuming to rework such ancient systems of your ethnic ancestors as Ifa, moving into even the ultimate Yoruba origin esoterica represented by Ogboni, and now claiming to be able to have something strategic to say about other African and even Asian and Western systems and even adding the hallowed name of Immanuel Kant to the mix.
You just have to accept this reality.
Is there any debate we have been in in which I have not demonstrated that I am adequately informed on the subject?
I would love you to refine your style of engagement with me so learning may develop that could benefit you, myself and others.
If one has not spent every day of decades in meditation for hours, not spent hours across years meditating alone in a forest, not engaged in various spiritual practices from across the world, not studied systems of knowledge across cultures, is one in a position to begrudge others who are doing so and demonstrating the fruits of their efforts?
The best one can do is engage them respectfully, learning from them as they learn from one.
One may also map a scope of achievement representing the maximizing one's potential and pursue that scope.
On account of the depth and scope of my exposure to various spiritual and philosophical systems, I am able to readily rework any spiritual system I am interested in or even create new ones.
Yet, these are ultimately exercises that fall short of the ultimate goal, that which cannot be systematised, the goal of knowledge that comes to itself with the incomprehensible One, as the Christian theologian Karl Rahner puts it, that which is best represented by silence, by pregnant non-speech, as Buddhist apophatic spirituality sees it, palpitations from beyond time and space yet sensed within the spatio-temporal coordinates of the self.
Thus, within the variousness of one's journeyings, one is aware of one's cognitive poverty.
The impossibility of unifying all of being, an insight described of Aristotle by one scholar, all I have learnt seeming like grass in the face of the Beyond revealed to me, as attributed to Thomas Aquinas, the ocean of truth lying undiscovered before me as I pick pebbles by the seashore, at times finding one shinier than the others, as famously credited to Isaac Newton, the glorious books I had written to mirror the world now revealed to me as no more than an addition to the world, as described of one of his characters by Jorge Louis Borges...
Yet, beyond such questions at the very edges of possibility is the fact that intellectual and spiritual capacity are not equivalent to the skills required to manage life in society, and the intense pursuit of abstract cognitions is not always compatible with managing social possibilities...
Yet, within such cognitive pursuits, how much can one really know?
Are the horizons of learning not endless, ever receding, a skyline that can never be reached?
Is one therefore different from the ragged, decrepit man, who is yet a beam of light from the hearth of Gueno, the Ultimate, an ultimacy closer to the human being than his jugular vein, as the Koran puts it, an ultimacy close yet distant, revealing itself only when it wishes, even when sought for across a lifetime, as described of Kaidara of the Fulani by Ahmadou Hampate Ba?
I salute you.
toyin
--On Wed, 25 Nov 2020 at 14:49, OLAYINKA AGBETUYI <yagbetuyi@hotmail.com> wrote:
--
But the 'foundational education' of Vincent Oluwatoyin Adepoju is not self generated studying under an adept Babalawo', is it? If so, our reactions would have been different
Encounter with a Babalawo by his own admission is very recent, after the events of formal education which he now misrepresents as only complementary to life long self- education, was terminated.
This seems a made up story. Studying under Babalawo takes years of commitments before one graduates to be on their own, which the referent is unwilling to undergo, yet is eager to misrepresent as having accomplished, as he makes up things as he goes.
Intellectual honesty is the bedrock of the virtues of scholarship.
Formal education was terminated overseas at the behest of the host country. This is not unheard of.
Parallel educational institutions abound in his own country and he has forgotten he narrated an aborted attempt at continuity with Professor Ademola Dasylva.
Why take to the internet to weave a self- confusing tale of heroism?
Approaching independent scholarship through a different route has been genuinely successful by others who are forthright, and who acknowledged those to whom they are beholden, with their expressly sought and given authority (and not skirting round avoidance of such acknowledgement in thinly disguised plagiarisms.)
OAA
Mr President, you took an oath to rule according to the Constitution.
Where are the schools to promote the teaching of the country's lingua francas?
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
-------- Original message --------From: Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju <toyin.adepoju@gmail.com>Date: 25/11/2020 07:19 (GMT+00:00)To: usaafricadialogue <USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com>, WoleSoyinkaSociety <WoleSoyinkaSociety@yahoogroups.com>Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Between a Spiral, a Circle and aStraight Line: How Do I Tell My Life's Story?
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--Between a Spiral, a Circle and a Straight Line
How Do I Tell My Life's Story?
Oluwatoyin Vincent AdepojuCompcrosComparative Cognitive Processes and Systems"Exploring Every Corner of the Cosmos in Search of Knowledge"
A scholar's biography is often an account of a linear progression, a movement from one level of schooling to another, from one academic job to another based on the kind of schooling received, their publications mapping cumulative contributions to knowledge over the years.
But what if the scholar's foundational educational development is self generated, with the academic training being complementary yet formative, the academic and the self generated education enhanced by learning within a classical African educational system, studying with a babalawo, an adept of the Yoruba origin Ifa system of knowledge?
Instead of a forward movement across academic systems, this scholar's journey is marked by recurrent dropping out of that system, returning to the self education that is his deepest orientation.
How may the pain and confusion represented by those journeys be distilled, anguish emerging from trying to be what is different from one's deepest self but which is the norm one has been socialized to try to adapt to?
Scholars' biographies often highlight their publications in academic fora, but the work of the scholar in question, though also evident in academic platforms, is more represented by self publication in social media and other online platforms, taking a path he finds congenial, and possibly gradually working his way towards developing his own knowledge network, consisting of his own publications and perhaps those of others, the platforms he uses in presenting these and the social media groups he has created under the inspiration of his guiding interests.
Reworker of classical African knowledge systems, Ifa, Ogboni, Ekpe and Olokun, writer in female centred aesthetics, explorer of intersections between the visual and verbal arts, philosophy, spirituality and science, worker in comparative cognitive processes and systems, are how I describe myself as I survey what I am doing, creativity that is more impulsive than planned, its configurations understood only after they have emerged under the compulsion of the daemon that is my true nature, slave master and inspirer, a nature partly understood by myself, a force outside the boundaries of social integration and biological imperatives, a consuming fire.
To what degree is my life's story a spiral, returning to the same orientations suppressed by the drive to adapt to expectations, developing them at deeper levels partly enabled by the synergy between my self developed skills and the skills gained from the social systems I struggled to adapt to?
To what degree is my life's story a circle, seeking an ultimate centre of knowledge, beyond space, time and biology but integrative of them, the pursuit of which I struggle to actualize in a circle of activity unique to myself, the tension between this quest for uniqueness and the pull towards social adaptation being the story of my learning journeys up till now?
How far is the image of the straight line relevant here?
A line of aspiration, luminous through various detours, flaming under the activities one did not want to engage in but was compelled to so as be part of how things are conventionally done, the insistent voice that cannot be denied no matter how painful it is to be guided by it.
Is it possible to be possessed by a demon of knowledge?
A force that has no interest in the well being of its host, something whose drives have no relation to human biological or social interests?
Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju is a writer at the boundary of a quest for ultimate meaning and a world centred in more immediate values, a tension that has been the matrix of his life in search for structures of knowledge with which to engage this ultimacy, from various religions and philosophies to the visual and verbal arts, integrated within undergraduate and graduate studies in English and Comparative Literature from the Universities of Benin, Kent, SOAS and UCL, a quest presently constituted by reworking classical African systems of knowledge in terms of vehicles for the search for the core of what is and how best to live.
Written under the inspiration of being asked to submit my biography for the book on the scholar Nimi Wariboko to which I contributed.
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