Prof. of History/African Studies, CCSU
africahistory.net; vimeo.com/ gloriaemeagwali
Recipient of the 2014 Distinguished Research
Excellence Award, Univ. of Texas at Austin;
2019 Distinguished Africanist Award
New York African Studies Association
Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2020 10:19 AM
To: usaafricadialogue <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Toyin Adepoju is a genius!
Please be cautious: **External Email**
Are you mistaking the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, a magical school of the Western esoteric tradition, which is what I am referring to, with The Popular Association-Golden Dawn, a far-right Greek political party?
Thanks
TA,--You have to be careful about Golden Dawn given its neo -Nazi and fascist credentials.
GE
On Dec 10, 2020, at 07:10, Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju <toyin.adepoju@gmail.com> wrote:
I had earlier posted a response to Agbetuyi which has not been posted.
I am resending it.
Food for thought, OAA.
We don't agree but we are understanding each other better.
I don't think the notion of ese ifa as necessarily divinely inspired is sustainable nor the idea that only Yoruba hunters can compose Ijala or that only initiated Ogboni can construct new Ogboni systems,. doing all these effectively.
All these structures are systems of thought whose cognitive essence transcends their cultural and institutional origins.
Even if one is arguing for divine inspiration as guides on these activities, Orunmila, Odu, Esu and other spiritual powers associated with Ifa are best understood as cosmic forces, powers beyond human circumscription but expressed in particular ways in the Yoruba cultural matrix, a cultural expression demonstrating links of greater or lesser similarity with other perspectives around the world.
The same goes for Ogboni, centred on what is perhaps one of the oldest human venerations, of nature as centred in Earth, the Great Mother.
Thus, these forces may be approached by anyone using the symbols developed in Yoruba culture or using them in tandem with others.
To those forces, if they exist, the human race is an emergence of the equivalent of one minute so far within the vast spans of cosmic time in the context of eternity.
Why should the squabbles of such recent emergents as human beings be their problem?
Spirits are interested in relationships with humans with our various spiritualities being means of effecting such relationships, not of reifying the identity of a reality we don't fully understand, in my view.
Golden Dawn Western esoteric school superbly uses ancient Egyptian religious symbolism and ritual, in tandem with others from different cultures in developing a great system.
Such efforts inspire me, English people taking forward African spiritualities in ways different from the creators did.
So, Universal Ogboni it remains. Universal Ifa too perhaps
Along with demonstrations of how to adapt Yoruba and other African spiritual and artistic systems according to the interests of the adapter.
Great thanks.
Toyin
--On Thu, 10 Dec 2020 at 12:36, 'Pamela Smith' via USA Africa Dialogue Series <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> wrote:
--Dear Olayinka:
Bravo! A gigantic task you have undertaken here, indeed with Job's patience, on behalf of Toyin Adepoju!
You hit the nail on the head SQUARELY, as these last two responses have laid out, as would a good, kind, caring Dissertation Director/Chairperson would (if one is lucky enough to find such a being). I do hope Toyin heeds these suggestions and harnesses the energy in and with which these excellent, substantive suggestions have been laid out -- title and substance ideas included – and run with them (acknowledging your assistance, of course, in the Preface to the next series of essays or BOOKs he will author and publish soon).
The tiresome exchanges (especially Toyin's responses to his critics) which often remind me of acrimonious PhD committees' responses, have been irksome and tortuous, akin to the kind of tug-of-war scenarios that often play out on some such committees that more often break than make PhD candidates. That, of course will not happen to Toyin since he will ensure that it doesn't by choosing not to subject himself to the test of the sometimes agonizing rigors of FORMAL academic training and exposure. Each on to his own – and he should be indeed encouraged to produce what he professes in preparation for critical overview, as long as he is able to GROUND his ideas and pronouncements in SOLID, SELF-DEVELOPED THEORIES/PRAXIS.
You have been a true and loving friend to Toyin, indeed the kind of friend who knows and practices the art of "tough love" much more than not.
Ku ise o! Kuu suuru!
Cheers,
Pam
From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of OLAYINKA AGBETUYI!
Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2020 1:40 AM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com; usaafricadialogue <USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: RE: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Toyin Adepoju is a genius!
ADDENDUM
For the avoidance of doubt ( criticisms need to be constructive to be effective) you stated the work is already, and I say its only half done.
To claim ownership of your work and avoid shooting yourself in the foot with future potential litigations and wasted efforts, consider a name change: Esę Ìpínyà ( footprints to a separate path) seems to be a summation of what you claim to have done and not Ęsę Ifá, which is the product of another guild. Ògbóyà ( courageous departure) seems to be the right summation of what has been titled Universal Ògbóni.
These titles suggest original products which could be explained to have been inspired by the existing institutions but not identical to them.
This might tempt the Agbetuyi of this world to consider queuing in front to get a copy for comparative analysis.
OAA
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
-------- Original message --------
From: OLAYINKA AGBETUYI <yagbetuyi@hotmail.com>
Date: 10/12/2020 01:51 (GMT+00:00)
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com, usaafricadialogue <USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: RE: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Toyin Adepoju is a genius!
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Toyin Adepoju.
My last word on this thread.
1. You do not need my permission for any creative act as I stated in my last post nor anyone's. But what you propose needs a new name because it is not in the same mode and category to the creation it inaccurately mimics and you have been shown the reasons why.
2. It is well you are comparing Ęsę Ifá with Ìjálá etc. But you are comparing apples with oranges. Ìjálá was not composed directly under the guidance of any God as part of case study brought by any member of the society: Ęsę ifá is!
3. I have not seen anyone composing Universal Ìjálá as scholarly activity. All they do is study what is composed by Ìjálá hunters. Your proposed activity is therefore different and is therefore illegitimate scholarly activity compared to what Ìjálá scholars do. No one is opposed to you studying extant Èşę Ifá. Hordes of scholars do! (Including yours truly) They do not compose a single line in addition because they are not fit and proper persons to do so. Neither are are you nor I. That is an illegitimate scholarly activity.
4. It is true that different worshippers and religious leaders exercise the right to express a different take on their religious observances. This was what led to the creation of America by the Pilgrim Fathers. But are you an Ifá worshipper or scholar? When did you become an Ifá priest? ( I averted to the case of Àdùnní Olórìşà the Yorùbá priestess because she started out as Òşun worshipper and ended up consecrated as Òşun priestess having been initiated by Yorùbá priests and priestesses like her and not as a result of self-initiation, an illegitimate activity.) The Reformation did not happen because outsiders came to impose their views on Christiandom. A section of Christiandom initiated it based on perceived excesses of the priesthood. That is why we have the word schism in the English vocabulary.
5. You will be well advised to append the names of the traditional Ògbóni who appointed you to spear head their initiatives in subsequent publications the same way Jibrin Ibrahim appended the names of the 42 members of the Concerned Citizens on behalf of whom he and Olisa Agbakoba (SAN) issued a statement. Why the secrecy? Your whole argument revolves round the point that you are a free agent bound by no oath to anyone. That display of traditional Ògbóni names with whom you work gives your publications legitimacy and not necessarily permission from anybody.
6. I have no more interest in pursuing this thread on the path of circularity of arguments, having pressing needs on my precious time, having ensured that every gifted scholar in this forum now understands the issues involved and can come to an informed judgement. That is my main goal and it has been achieved.
7. I leave you to your own devices.
OAA
.
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
-------- Original message --------
From: Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju <toyin.adepoju@gmail.com>
Date: 09/12/2020 07:23 (GMT+00:00)
To: usaafricadialogue <USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Toyin Adepoju is a genius!
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Thanks, Femi and OAA.
I stated I am happy to engage others in connection with my work but approval by others is not what motivates my writing.
That is why I do so much writing without operating within a reward system for that writing.
I shape my writing in order to touch my audience but even if the audience does not respond, I would still write.
As for quality control, the character of a person's work speaks for itself.
One can establish one's own working standards without depending on an accrediting community.
Along those lines, anyone who wants to respond to the values demonstrated by a work needs to justify their opinions.
Anything else has little value.
I read some people on this group responding as if their consent is significant in accrediting my work.
It is not, particularly since their objections are not backed by analytical justifications or as with Agbetuyi, I have responded adequately to his critiques when he has presented them as different from uncritical condemnation.
When I started Universal Ogboni, some Ogboni members and one Ogboni leader threatened me.
I told them they were wasting their time.
With those who presented reasoned objections free of threats, we were able to discuss.
As of now, having been so advised by a person who identifies with my vision, I created and run, with another admin, a Universal Ogboni Philosophy and Spirituality group on WhatsApp composed of both members of traditional Ogboni and non-members of traditional Ogboni, such as myself.
We discuss traditional Ogboni, as far as the traditional members can go within the limits of their inititation oaths, we discuss the new Universal Ogboni and other esoteric and non-esoteric spiritualities.
It is not an inititiatory group like traditional Ogboni but it demonstrates the potential for openness to new ways of relating to the Ogboni idea.
Religious innovations are often adopted by people outside the approval of established authorities, so there's not much point waiting for anyone to approve your innovations,so you just get on with it and let anyone who wants to get on board do so.
I see the objections of people on this group to the creation of new ese ifa as misguided.
Why so?
We need to add ese ifa to the globally studied genres of literature, like ofo and ijala, other Yoruba literary forms, should be so added.
They should be studied like we study lyrics and sonnets.
People should be trained in their study and construction.
They can also be used to explore relationships between the sacred and the secular in art, along the lines of Abiodun's evocation of the relationship between meaning and context represented by the Yoruba expression which suggests that emotionally charged contexts may transform an innocent song into a proverb.
Ese ifa are often entertaining, at times ribald, dealing with the everyday or the cosmogonic, long or short, rich in superb wordplay- wordplay not always rendered in translation, though.
Such beauties should be taught as the verbal art they are and the relationship between verbal art and the sacred in Ifa within the wider religious and other contexts which are not explictly religious but also sacred, also explored.
Ifa, as an artistic heritage of universal significance, is better served that way than insisting on keeping it locked in a traditionalist silo.
I recall the visionary Abiola Irele advocating Ifa literary study.
I'm for the study of it's literary qualities, study of it's conjunction of the sacred and the secular in content and context-the latter referring to it's use in sacred action-the training in it's construction and and it's use as a philosophical and spiritual resource transposing the traditional Ifa context in new ways.
We need flexibility and greater penetrative scope in Yoruba origin cultural forms so their intrinsic dynamism may be better unleashed for greater influence across the world.
Thanks.
Toyin
On Tue, Dec 8, 2020, 21:28 OLAYINKA AGBETUYI <yagbetuyi@hotmail.com> wrote:
Well said! The quality control assurance of traditional Ifá is well established for millenia. Any new practices that do not measure up need to employ another name and not use practices that do not measure up to the standards of the trade name used to market them.
In other words Toyin Adepoju can invent practically any new thing in the world he fancies. But he needs a new name that alerts the world that it is not identical to practices and products already in circulation.
Modern quality assurance professionals call that a trade mark. Ęse ifa is the trade mark of certain professionals called Ifa priesthood. The trade mark can only be used in the contemporary world to which the modern Ifa priesthood belongs with their express consent.
I dont see how this consent will be given without quality assurance.
This was the problem genuine Ifá priests faced with early Christian missionaries who labelled Ifá 'work of darkness' because fake Ifa priests paraded themselves as real priests down the ages and their dishonesty was used to condemn all the genuine priests whom they disliked simply because they chose not to be Christians!
Once Toyin Adepoju is given the clearance, multitudes of ancillary Ęsę Ifá practitioners will spring up all over the place seeing that it is ready made way to make a fast buck thereby squeezing genuine practitioners out of existence.
OAA
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
-------- Original message --------
From: Femi Kolapo <kolapof@uoguelph.ca>
Date: 08/12/2020 19:00 (GMT+00:00)
To: usaafricadialogue <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Toyin Adepoju is a genius!
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Is it possible that we can engage in any serious professional work, especially work in intellection which they clearly direct at increasing the pool of working knowledge, without giving significant thought to some approval at least from some quarters from among other workers and practitioners? What would be the point to all this argument about Toyin's work then?
If we have no sense of the usefulness and effectiveness of our work, much of which sense depends on some sort of feedback from our community of practice or of knowledge, I doubt if there is any basis for such work. Even where it is work meant only to put food on the table, people pay for what they consider to give them value - because it entertains them, meets their need, or makes some sort of contribution to what they consider to be important to them or to society. They evaluate it before they pay for it.
We know that there are people who live by various ese ifa. If Toyin creates new ese ifa as he avows that he wants to and if we assume that people may begin to give such new ese ifa that he creates some logocentric essence by which they might order their lives, would he still say that his work has nothing to do with approval by others – including those who so decide to apply them to their lives or experiment with them? On the other hand, Toyin, people who feel negatively about the weight of your claim and aspiration to create new ese ifa and believe that the Yoruba culture is structured by Ifa for the same reason would have a right to evaluate your claims and your work – because they believe that it will affect their lives and that it has ramifications for Yoruba culture for good or for evil. I believe that all people who aspire to contribute to any system of knowledge do so within the context of audiences. Willy-nilly, therefore, these audiences, including those who challenge you, are assessors of your work and you, therefore, depend on them for "accreditation".
I believe that the challenge Toyin's type of scholarly independence faces, a scholar, as he puts it, "whose audiences are various, covering various platforms within and beyond social media" is that this remote, scattered, virtual, decentralized community of practice seems rather amorphous, at least to people who are used to clear lines and structures of determining studentship, teachership, and expertise and who believe that the knowledge items in question are of existential importance than can be left to a lone scholar who has no quality assurance structures or ethical standards to guide them.
To be able to make acceptable contributions to the community of practice/ knowledge to which Toyin's interlocutors belong, it seems that it is especially the accreditation or, at least, quality assurance structure which Toyin seems to make light of that is required. These, I think are what Ken Harrow, in one of his previous posts on this issue referred to. It may be that these are the struggles and pressures that will mold how Toyin and the people he remotely works with as independent scholars in this area of primal spirituality get to establish accreditation and quality assurance structures analogous to or in some association with conventional ones.
Femi J. Kolapo
History Department * University of Guelph * Ontario * Canada* N1G 2W1
________
From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju <toyin.adepoju@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, December 7, 2020 6:48 AM
To: usaafricadialogue <USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Toyin Adepoju is a genius!
CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the University of Guelph. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. If in doubt, forward suspicious emails to IThelp@uoguelph.ca
Truth is, I am happy for my work to be appreciated, but that is not my goal in writing.
I write beceause I need to write not because I need to be appreciated.
Academics need the accreditation of their colleagues in order to sustain their careers and livelihood.
I am not an academic and therefore I am not dependent on anybody's approval for the development of my scholarly career.
That's my own calling.
Academics have their own calling.
To each their own.
I am happy and eager to engage mutually respectful and serious discourse, in relation to my work and those of others, but have no time for uncritical responses.
Thus, the notion that one's work is nothing without approval of others does not apply to me.
Secondly, my audiences are various, covering various platforms within and beyond social media, and the squad of largely ethnic culture defenders, often more dogmatic than critical, on this group are only one part of my audience.
Great thanks.
Toyin
On Sun, Dec 6, 2020, 23:19 Harrow, Kenneth <harrow@msu.edu> wrote:
femi's points are good, but but but
there are two limits that bother me.
first, i am made uncomfortable by people who boast about themselves.
period.
and i venture to say, i am not alone in this.
secondly, i am made uncomfortable by explicit references to explicit physical parts or activities which custom has permitted us to reference by indirection. for example, a man who refers to his private parts might say my thing, or in french ma chose. there are many words we develop to accomplish this use of language with delicacy or taste or discretion.
now, i wrote a book about trash, and in it refer to books like Shit, an interesting work that deals with that subject matter, and uses the term, like me, for its shock value.
but to pretend that evocations of the private--be it your own private life or private parts--without discretion is to risk alienating your audience.
these are minor personal issues, but i believe my reticence here is shared by many others, maybe most on this list raised to appreciate a certain discretion in speech and manner.
toyin f wants us to consider another issue, which you, femi, allude to as well. here i am vaguely of two minds. first, what validates and gives prestige to someone's work, their claims, has to be based on how the audience responds. if the audience is informed, specialists in a given area, we would expect that community would have some bases for their evaluations. could be a small group of older people, who might quietly agree on the worth of what they hear from another person; might be top scholars in a field. It is not an automatic process: an article accepted for and published in a top journal might turn out to be indifferent in its worth, over time. another published in a second-rate journal might become a classic in one's field. that is because as it is discussed, commented on, etc., its merits should ultimately prevail, at least for a period of time.
so, the standards change; but the opinions and values of experts in the field should count, no matter how they express it. you can teach a text, comment on it in your publications, etc. you can be crazily innovative, or conventional, but on your own you are nothing. the reception of your knowledge is where its value emerges.
and being a genius has nothing to do with it. einstein stubbornly resisted quantum mechanics, especially entanglement, and was ultimately proven wrong--and he admitted it.
my last thought on this, and then i'll shut up. the top scholars in my field do not need to prove their grounding in the field; they don't need to solidify their arguments by evoking brilliant theorists; other scholars largely do. that is where toyin f's evoking of new thinking comes into play.
but even then, their works require an informed reception to acquire real value.
ken
kenneth harrow
professor emeritus
dept of english
michigan state university
517 803-8839
From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Chidi Anthony Opara, FIIM <chidi.opara@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 6, 2020 3:18 PM
To: USA Africa Dialogue Series <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Toyin Adepoju is a genius!
Thanks so much Femi(J. Kolapo) . A very deep one.
-CAO.
On Sunday, 6 December 2020 at 20:21:45 UTC+1 kol...@uoguelph.ca wrote:
What defines ingenuity, intellectual exceptionality and productivity, is separate from meekness, self-effacement, or any other such qualities of interpersonal behavioral relations, even if it is felt that the latter could adorn it. A genius may or may not be humble, modest, offensive, or insulting.
The production and certification of knowledge and the institutional bases that legitimize and confirm knowledge production and how or whether one is titled is being diversified along many different directions in the era of the Internet.
New non-traditional communities of knowledge completely unaffiliated with and outside of the customary institutional and traditional legitimizing parameters are emerging everywhere. But also, many of them are interlinked with traditional and customary structures and are thriving on feedback from each other and will likely continue to cross fertilize. I feel that Adepoju's intellectual path demonstrates the increasing salience of this pathway. It is a matter of time before more and more traditional structures and communities of knowledge production and dissemination are brought to engage with these new online structures and methods and are forced to appreciate (if not accept) the different but equally valid intellectuality of the new democratizing, decentralizing, and informalizing ways and structures of knowing and of distributing knowledge.
The attendant processes of legitimating, authenticating, affirming, disaffirming, and certifying the authority, authenticity, or qualifications associated with these ways of knowing are going to extend beyond what we have been used to. Not that this will always be smooth. There will clearly be frictions, competition, and even ridiculing of the new by the old and vice versa. It is even possible that the old institutions may sue the new ones over the right to certify and recognize expertise and give titles or honorifics to their learners and practitioners. As it is hinted at in some very strong responses to Adepoju's avowals and aspirations in this forum, it is going to be a big struggle between the old/traditional hierarchies and the emerging ones. I, however, expect that in a generation or less, new criteria of determining how and when a person can be formally declared an expert or indeed, a genius, would become increasingly flexible enough to accommodate non-traditional structures and methods. It is a new world out there, even as the old continues on strong.
Femi J. Kolapo
History Department * University of Guelph * Ontario * Canada* N1G 2W1
________
African History Digital Document Portal Project
_______
African Journal of Teacher Education || Review of Higher Education in Africa || Recreation and Society in Africa, Asia and Latin America
________
Book Preview: Femi J. Kolapo, Christian Missionary Engagement in Central Nigeria: The Church Missionary Society's All African Mission on the Upper Niger (Springer International Publishers, 2019).
From: usaafric...@googlegroups.com <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Ezinwanyi Adam <ezii...@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 6, 2020 4:14 AM
To: usaafric...@googlegroups.com <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Toyin Adepoju is a genius!
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Interesting....
On Sun, 6 Dec 2020, 09:48 Toyin Falola, <toyin...@austin.utexas.edu> wrote:
Sir:
Am I the only one who sees things differently here? In that case, can the accused not plead before a judge that:
If a twig lies in the water for months, even years, it can imagine itself as a crocodile?
Or
Is a groundnut not qualified to see itself as a coffin? Or the nut inside the shell not similar to a corpse inside a coffin? If you break both coffins, are the products not food?
Toyin Adepoju has a right to his credentials, just as a drum has a right to its sound. Of course, because you don't hear a broken drum does not mean it is not a drum. He has a right to the interpretation of that sound, just exactly like the amala woman sees her product as the best.
What I detest in all these arguments is that you all are assuming that Mr. Adepoju is a frog who sees two waters—one cold and one hot—and he deliberately jumps into the hot water. In that case, he becomes edible. I disagree, he jumps only into the cold water, but you confuse the splash with the steam.
You, like Ogundiran and Agbetuyi, is the vinegar who assumes he can catch more flies than honey.
TF
TF
From: usaafric...@googlegroups.com <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Date: Sunday, December 6, 2020 at 2:32 AM
To: USAAfricaDialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Toyin Adepoju is a genius!Toyin Vincent Adepoju,
I suggested that you exhibit traces of delusions of grandeur, you have just confirmed it here. Wole Soyinka is world acclaimed and we have objective proof of his prodigious contribution to knowledge. The same goes for Chinua Achebe and those who you are not, who you name and mention here but you desperately and lazily want to claim and want people to see you to be like, or ape without putting in the great intellectual rigor they put into their works.
Self-praise my dear Toyin Adepoju is no commendation. When Prof. Toyin Falola humors you and us by calling you a genius, let that energize you into doing genuine hard intellectual work. The only trumpet of Toyin Adepoju is Toyin Adepoju. Strong minds interrogated Soyinka and Achebe and confirmed their hard work and depth. Unlike them, you parade here your hare-brained and mundane fantasies. Alagba Salimonu Kadiri exposed a few earlier. You travel to Lagos and use your camera to film the buttocks of an unsuspecting woman and you try to use your fraudulent abracadabra to pass that banality here as some scholarly work. That is your sad practice here. You do not fool me. I have always known your attempt to cut corners in order to acquire undeserved fame. You delight in the oxygen these exchanges offer but what you forget is that this will also encourage serious minds to interrogate your writings and see through your fakery.
Comparing yourself with the likes of Soyinka and Achebe is an insult to those celebrated and accomplished icons.
You are not fit to wipe their shoes. With, or without certificates, if you want to be like them, do the work and stop faking all over the place.
Cheers.
IBK
_________________________
Ibukunolu Alao Babajide (IBK)
AN ENGLISH NURSERY RHYME
The law locks up the man or woman
Who steals the goose from off the common
But leaves the greater villain loose
Who steals the common from off the goose
The law demands that we atone
When we take things that we do not own
But leaves the lords and ladies fine
Who take things that are yours and mine
The poor and wretched don't escape
If they conspire the law to break
This must be so but they endure
Those who conspire to make the law
The law locks up the man or woman
Who steals the goose from off the common
And geese will still a common lack
Till they go and steal it back
- Anonymous (circa 1764)
On Fri, 4 Dec 2020 at 19:04, Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju <toyin....@gmail.com> wrote:
Na wa for dese people.
Wole Soyinka and Chinua Achebe are not as academically certified as myself, they don't have as many degrees as I have, and certainly not equal to my scope of intercontinental academic certification-though their cosmopolitan intellectual and institutional grounding is superb-but they represent some of the finest flowers of world scholarship, apart from their literary writing.
The same goes for the great Pierre Verger and Ulli Beier, foundational figures in the study of African cultures, the awesome Okwui Enwezor whose only degree is a BA in Political Science, yet became one of the greatest figures in the global art world, a magnificent scholar of art, a professor of art, manager of great art institutions and global art fiestas, an awesome master whom sadly most Nigerians don't know about though he passed away sadly in his 50s only last year or the year before. Master, we salute you.
Even with these, does one really need a degree in the first place to be a scholar?
Or is IBK referring to publications in academic fora, which perhaps have to be ignored by detractors even though presented at various times in this discussion by the person they insist on negatively criticizing?
Even then, does one need publications in academic fora, useful as they are, to be a good scholar?
May God save us from fixations on the letter rather than the spirit of education when even the creators of those educational systems regularly rejuvenate their systems by thinking outside the box.
It would be helpful if those claiming the inadequacy of Adepoju's scholarship actually tried to justify their claims.
Agbetuyi is the only one who has put in some effort along such lines, and compared with the focus on declamations rather than analytical critique represented by these other figures, my respect for him is growing.toyin
On Fri, 4 Dec 2020 at 16:14, Ibukunolu A Babajide <ibk...@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Adeshina Afolayan,
Thank you very much.
First, let me salute you for your commend and commend your commanding deployment of the language of English. You have painstakingly studied and acquired "knowledges" (if I may use that coinage). On top of that you demonstrate the Yoruba "Omo olu iwa bi" who gives a long rope of courtesy and respect to all. I thank you for that. I have followed Toyin Adepoju for some time. From his failure during peer evaluation at UNIBEN and his rebellious and self-deluding attempt at creating a boundary-less knowledge scope based on his fantasies. I am convinced that he is an "impostor and a charlatan," much as I would have loved to e swayed by your rather persuasive intervention.
I am sure he is very happy that his vacuous postulations attract comments from eminent and refined minds like yours, Agbetuyi, Kadiri, and Falola. That is what he craves. The oxygen of infamy that he evokes. He cannot deceive me, and I will assure you that sooner than later you will also see through his deception. He will tag on the works of great scholars like Abiola Irele and begin to pronounce meaningless postulations on their works using verbose and bombastic words. He will claim that after he sat for a few days with a Baba Alawo in Benin for a few days he is a master of Ifa. He will blaspheme and call Ifa literature shone of its spirituality and painstaking learning.
The bottom line is that he should first do the minimum required as a scholar. Each time Oga Falola throws him a lifeline to genuinely engage himself in verifiable and certifiable scholarly activity, he runs away faster than Hussain Bolt. Only to return with his infantile fantasies over the vagina or the phallus. What he does here, is the exact theatrics of Donald Trump claiming he won an election that he lost. Toyin Adepoju declares himself as a scholar that he is not and just as 70 million Americans voted for Donald Trump, a few among us here also want to believe that he is one. Sadly, he is not. Deep down in his heart of hearts (if he is not suffering from delusions of grandeur) he knows that he is not a scholar. He knows that he is a mere charlatan and an impostor.
My esteemed brother, I am a trained lawyer. I interrogate facts and try to find consistency in the narrative the facts suggest. Toyin Adepoju has failed that test of factual consistency that will ever make him a scholar or a genius. In my trade and vocation, nobody without a minimum degree of certification can be allowed to act I court on behalf of clients. You must satisfy an academic element and a vocational element of study. You cannot say because you have read all the judgments of Lord Denning and all the American Supreme Court judges you have become a lawyer. Capital No! You must be certified by a state board of assessors who will unleash you on an unsuspecting public.
Toyin Adepoju cannot fool me. At some point when his conscience pricks him, he will confess that much as he succeeded in his tricks with many some of us stood resolutely unconvinced with his 419 scholarship.
Kind regards, Alagba Adeshina Afolayan.
IBK
_________________________
Ibukunolu Alao Babajide (IBK)
AN ENGLISH NURSERY RHYME
The law locks up the man or woman
Who steals the goose from off the common
But leaves the greater villain loose
Who steals the common from off the goose
The law demands that we atone
When we take things that we do not own
But leaves the lords and ladies fine
Who take things that are yours and mine
The poor and wretched don't escape
If they conspire the law to break
This must be so but they endure
Those who conspire to make the law
The law locks up the man or woman
Who steals the goose from off the common
And geese will still a common lack
Till they go and steal it back
- Anonymous (circa 1764)
On Thu, 3 Dec 2020 at 23:33, OLAYINKA AGBETUYI <yagb...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Oga Afolayan.
If anyone said it is possible to self-initiate into Ifa priesthood that person is an impostor and charlatan of apocalyptic proportions.
That was as far as I could remember when IBK began to take issues with Toyin Adepoju's postings.
Are you not aware of such postings?
OAA
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
-------- Original message --------
From: 'Adeshina Afolayan' via USA Africa Dialogue Series <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Date: 02/12/2020 14:22 (GMT+00:00)
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Toyin Adepoju is a genius!
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Oga Babajide,
I don't know about you, but i quake to label someone an "impostor and a charlatan" on the evidence we all have about Adepoju's intellectual eccentricity (except you have more damning evidence not open to all of us). By the same token, i am also wary to go all out, like TF, to label him a genius. It might be my philosophical training, but Sartre warned me about the existential danger of labeling anyone anything. Labeling limits the full possibilities of living out our human possibilities.
I have ever been fascinated by the restlessness of Oga Adepoju's mind and intellectual activities. And i came to a decision long ago that intellectual eccentricity is not a sin. He might decide to shun the academic boundaries we have erected for ourselves, and launch out on his own direction. Michel Foucault would actually have loved the boundary-less quality of his mind, and decry our attempt to cage him. For him, wasn't that the way the panopticon was deployed in history, and the prison emerged?
I had followed the Ese Ifa discourse. And then i wonder: does the insistence on mechanical training to acquire the Ifa knowledge square with Ifa's openness and plurality in acquiring cultural knowledge? The Ifa corpus is open to the acquisition of multiple knowledges, which is why the Ifa priest is himself a creative epistemic explorer who divines every five days. Ifa himself rewards the quest for knowledge and epistemic dynamism and creativity. Now, this is where i make a jump: if the Ifa divinatory system is heuristic, which allows it to compulsively revise itself into new cultural and intellectual developments, can we not by that fact accommodate new ese Ifa? Do i need training to be able to do that? Does Ifa need gatekeeping?
Oga Adepoju is following the direction of his minds, seeking epistemic avenues and uncharted paths. If we cannot encourage him, we better let him be. I am also wary about some stinging portions of his eccentricity, like ascribing "genius" status to himself (who does that? Well, an an eccentric!), and asking money for some "Adepoju paradigm". But are these sufficient to label him an "impostor", a "fraud" or a "charlatan"? I don't think so. If we will agree, some of his deliveries have been quite interesting!
Getting a phd could be limiting sometimes too. I do not see Adepoju as being amenable to such three or four years of academic agonies.
Adeshina Afolayan, PhD
Department of Philosophy
University of Ibadan
+23480-3928-8429
On Wednesday, December 2, 2020, 01:16:51 PM GMT+1, Ibukunolu A Babajide <ibk...@gmail.com> wrote:
Egbon Toyin,
This is just who you are! You see the best in all of us. especially, those of us who you have encouraged and mentored for so long. You have spoken and as an elder, and in Yoruba tradition and culture I will not dare "unspeak" your outspokenness!
I will sheath my sword on Toyin Adepoju (for now) because where you see a genius, I see an impostor and a charlatan who cuts corners and is unwilling to subject himself to the rigours of academics but wishes to bask in the undeserved limelight (by tagging on the coattails of hard thinkers and workers).
All I plead with you is that when at some point in the not too distant future you are finally convinced of his fakery, you will inform us that in this one uncovering of genius, you picked a dud cheque.
Kind wishes.
IBK
_________________________
Ibukunolu Alao Babajide (IBK)
AN ENGLISH NURSERY RHYME
The law locks up the man or woman
Who steals the goose from off the common
But leaves the greater villain loose
Who steals the common from off the goose
The law demands that we atone
When we take things that we do not own
But leaves the lords and ladies fine
Who take things that are yours and mine
The poor and wretched don't escape
If they conspire the law to break
This must be so but they endure
Those who conspire to make the law
The law locks up the man or woman
Who steals the goose from off the common
And geese will still a common lack
Till they go and steal it back
- Anonymous (circa 1764)
On Wed, 2 Dec 2020 at 14:51, Toyin Falola <toyin...@austin.utexas.edu> wrote:
Great ones:
Your humble moderator now has to intervene! I think the direction in which the Ifa argument is going is making me uncomfortable, the inability to accept creativity, the failure to see the Esu in Adepoju---no path is straight, nothing should be concluded. Esu is the god that I have also adopted, and I did the longest book on this unique Yoruba god. All attempts to "kill" Esu (to use the concept of "kill" that Wariboko deploys), has failed.
I discovered Toyin Adepoju—Toyin Adepoju did not discover me! It was when I began to read him—the eclectic nature of his writings, his ability to turn the micro into the macro, his extraordinary talent to tap into the Nino and convert it into the mega, that I sought him out. I seek out people. It is a small contribution to the concept of the "informal" and "people" that Dr. Adeshina Afolayan of the University of Ibadan contributed to this forum that led to my knowing him. I contacted him and said we should meet at Ibadan. This is intellectual leadership. You must seek out people.
First, I thought Toyin Adepoju was a woman. As Adepoju began to talk about the vagina, I thought s/he was a lesbian. His writings can be clueless as to his identity. He can be irascible. And so what? The God of Israel was also temperamental. Blasphemy!
Thinking that he was she, an invitation was extended to him by our Art Dept to come and give a lecture. I wrote to them that I don't think he was she! I did not know how that invitation ended. I reinvited him back to Austin to be part of the Nimi Wariboko conference, but that is another story.
I extended a book contract to him to write on Ifa, as I saw new edges and frontiers in what he was doing. He signed the contract, but he did not deliver. What a shame!
I sought to meet him in person. And we met in Lagos, then at Ibadan. I had lunch with him. He interviewed me. I took him to my pepper soup joint—alas! he does not eat animals.
I advised him to register for a Ph.D. I got him a supervisor. I assured that I would fully fund the Ph.D. I nominated myself as the External Examiner. I had a three-way conversation with his would-be supervisor whom I chose for him. He thanked me and said he is not interested.
We are dealing with a genius whose ways of thinking may be beyond our realms. He may be decades ahead of us in his thinking. In the early 80s, when my talents were unfolding, only one person in the entire University—Professor Olabisi Afolayan—was able to discover it! Only one person. A year after my Ph.D., he asked the University to promote me to a Senior Lecturer. Of course, they refused. But he was the only one who saw my talent.
Let us see Adepoju as a genius, cultivate him, promote him, and see where we all land. Where he wants to convert an opportunity into money, we must back off.
For all those who are quick to criticize others, Adepoju is not my friend. The day I told Adeshina that Nimi Wariboko is not my friend; he was in shock. Moses Ochonu is not my friend. I worship talents where I see them. Even if Nimi or Moses abuse me, it is of no effect. I am manifesting my personality to locate extraordinary talents. Should they abuse me, they are displaying their own character flaws.
In the words of the Zulu, "I have spoken!"
Continue with your debates.
Stay well.
TF
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