RE: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Barewa

Ken

Our conclusions are not different.  Remove religion and people on behalf of whom others are conquered have scales fall from their eyes and cannot justify their evil intent.

In the UK for example the abolitionists used the argument to end slavery, but the freed slaves did not because of that change back to their old religions but used their freed status to work for the interests of those who freed them who are part of the society that enslaved them in the first instance till today and that is the core of my argument meaning they have 'seen the light' ( of civilization) and continue the game of spreading it among their own people for their principals.

My ancestral land was razed to the ground by the Fulani literally like thieves in the night just like the Almoravids did on ancient Ghana because both societies were seen as heathens and would not convert to Islamic monotheism peacefully.

Moses and his supporters conquered the ' promised land' by force of arms and 'post facto' justified their conquest by saying it was promised land by Yahweh ( this act of violent dispossession!)

What of Benin massacre by the English because the indigenes reacted to the despoliation of their rituals e.tc, etc?

OAA

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From: "Harrow, Kenneth" <harrow@msu.edu>

Date: 25/03/2021 22:40 (GMT+00:00)

To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Barewa

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olayinka

people enforcing their codes on other people is truly obscene.

since roman times jews have not had a nation or power to enforce codes onto others, until now with israel. even there, the orthodox impose their codes, like kosher rules or shabbat rules, on others within the country. but they couldn't care less about non-jewish observance, thinking the blessings go with themselves, those who observe the rules. jews do not proselytize.

but even when christians did proselytize, the conquest  was the fundamental issue, i believe. they came and conquered, and incidentally converted.

muslims converted without real proselytizing; but when central africa came under muslim control, the enslaved people were often impeded from converting since muslims were taught not to enslave fellow muslims.

who could not become cynical about religion under these circumstances?

you might think the expansion of belief in one god was at play; but conversions to any of these religions didn't stop all the wars and exploitation, didn't stop any of the historical abuses, since people will use religion to rationalize these practices, not really to end them. i don't blame religion or praise it: it is people who establish these practices, and then tell the world that was what god wanted.

if you removed "god" from the equation, that wouldn't stop the conquering, the exploitation, the abuses. it is people who act in what they think is their own interest, and rationalize it, often using religion.

ken

kenneth harrow

professor emeritus

dept of english

michigan state university

517 803-8839

harrow@msu.edu

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From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> on behalf of OLAYINKA AGBETUYI <yagbetuyi@hotmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2021 3:38 PM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: RE: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Barewa

 

Ken.

Well put.  No one quarrels with secular Jews, many of whom may not be recognised as Jews, because there is no outward dress codes observed,until people castigate Jews in their presence and they are shocked they have shot themselves in the foot.

It is those who want to enforce a written code made for a particular period of development for all times, violently that are the issue.  They think because it was written down it must not be changed.  This in large part was what informed Derrida's notion of violence of the letter:  'You have no written religion you have no religion'; those who have written religions must enforce its tenets against others for all time.  

And that is where colonialism comes in with the enforcement of a Papal Bull, which even African lettered intellectuals carry on today as a form of evangelised neo- colonialism i.e. defending by all guises what was used to carry their ancestors into captivity and slavery and the Muslim intellectual elites try to match them in this race.

It is that structure that it is  only the worship of one God that can be right and it's dated written commands must be carried out at all costs that is behind most of the legitimised violence. Violent Schisms are only a subtext of this mind set that says only an interpretation can be right to the same God and the others must be violently quashed.

OAA

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-------- Original message --------

From: "Harrow, Kenneth" <harrow@msu.edu>

Date: 25/03/2021 16:35 (GMT+00:00)

To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Barewa

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dear all, when i think of religion and how to define it, i would have say it is mostly meaningful in how it is practised. in that regard, each of these religions has enormously wide variations in practices. between the ultra-orthodox in judaism, and the reform or reconsructionist variations it is really day to night differences, and even scorn or worse. but in general jews do not proselatize, as the other two faiths do.

between sufi islam and legalistic islam it also has been such hatred and violence as to eliminate the one version (often enough sufi or brotherhood versions) from salafi or other branches, esp in the saudi peninsula. and so on. under the cover of islam saudi sunnis and persian shiites fight it out. look at the ongoing war in yemen, the conflicts in the middle east, with these two protagonists.

and between catholics, protestants, unitarians, evangelicals is also a huge gulf. wars of religion for centuries; wholesale inquisitions and oppression. wars against muslims and expulsion of jews and muslims etc. the history couldn't be uglier. but that's only part of the story.

how to generalize?

much of judaism is practiced not through acts of faith as much as what is called tsedaka, like charity of arabic, sadaq.

i think of both islam and judaism lean in the direction of actions more than faith. for many jews it is adherence to the culture of a community, with no faith at all for probably half--secular jews. the fanatics of both judaism and islam, ultraorthodox or islamists, are really the curse of our religions since they are willing to go to war against non-believers, willing to condemn women to inferior status, to condone vile acts against people as if they were gods themselves, as if they had god's ear, as if they knew what god would want.

but christianity has lots of charity, lots of emphasize on good acts, like the other two; but perhaps more tied into acts of faith, talk about faith etc etc. i think evangelicals would tie faith to prosperity more than the other branches; would emphasize success in the here and now, whereas calvanists would lean more to fatalism and the hereafter.

where is god in all this? these religions profess a common god, a common source or origin, and the notion of a high god in african religions was often marked by efforts, like mbiti's, to reconcile african beliefs with christian faith. i think that is the wrong approach. rather, i would ask how each religion reflected the social structures, validated the dominant values and dominant forces in each case. that's a materialist view of religion, which i share.

lastly, without any effort we all could cite the worst of human tendencies in each of these religions, and we could also cite the beautiful and ineffable. that is not inherent in these religions, but in their adherents. if we abolished these religions, all the slaughter and oppression they advocate would continue, under another heading, like Love of Nation or whatever. Likewise, we would have human creation and its beauties continue as well. it is part of how people organize the world. and to rationalize it, to justify it, to validate and give it dominance, they proclaim it to be handed to them by god.

well, we are all free to believe what we want. until the Believers take hold and impose their ways.

ken

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From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Emeagwali, Gloria (History) <emeagwali@ccsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2021 7:46 AM
To: Cornelius Hamelberg <corneliushamelberg@gmail.com>; USA Africa Dialogue Series <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Barewa

 

Let me add that of the three religions

Judaism seems to be the more rational

to me, although the three are implicated

in cultural imperialistic activities.

The three seem to have the concept of

devilry and  sin, unlike many African and

Asian religions, and original sin seems to be

crucial in one of them. With Islam you have

no burden to bear though once you commit 

to the religion and so the original sin concept

is almost null and void.

Professor Gloria Emeagwali
Prof. of History/African Studies, CCSU
africahistory.net; vimeo.com/ gloriaemeagwali
Recipient of the 2014 Distinguished Research
Excellence Award, Univ. of Texas at Austin;
2019 Distinguished Africanist Award
New York African Studies Association

---

From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Cornelius Hamelberg <corneliushamelberg@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2021 1:01 AM
To: USA Africa Dialogue Series <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Barewa

 

Please be cautious: **External Email**

This is so deliberately provocative that it must be the misogynist he-devil or anti-Semitic she-devil that must be at work here, causing you to write that it is a religion itself per se and not a lapsed or "fallen" adherent of any such religion/ way of life that you are wrongfully accusing when you say that "One of them is heavily implicated in sex abuse lawsuits and has paid about 3 billion dollars in penalties / settlements thus far  in the US alone."

Your sole aim is to discredit a religion and to promote some discussion.

Of relevance to those who see some of what Judaism and Islam have in common - namely Judaic elements borrowed and adapted by Islam, including some of the Judaic myths, legends and midrashic stories in the Quran.

Interesting too, Judaism and Islam by Erwin I. J. Rosenthal and of course Jewish Views on Islam and some of the interesting differences with regard to what Islam says about Jesus (no crucifixion and no resurrection – the centrepiece of Christianity) especially in the light of sceptics such as Bart Ehrman and the aggressive Kenneth Humphreys views on Jesus

As you may not be aware, blessed are they who were not there and yet believe.

"Blessed are they who have not seen and yet believe."

 I know that  Don Harrow is the best person on this matter with his vast experience of  Islam in North Africa. 

Please carryon with your discussion;. 

On Thursday, 25 March 2021 at 02:10:47 UTC+1 Emeagwali, Gloria (History) wrote:

I am not so sure about  the three religions

sharing core theology. In Islam

 and Judaism Jesus is not divine and definitely  not

a son of God but just another human or 

messenger. The  role of Jesus in

Christianity borders on  cultism,  in the view

of  some Muslims and followers of Judaism.

The Trinity concept is also rejected by two 

of the religions. 

You don't have images, Caucasian 

or not plastered on the walls or erected

within the place of worship if you are a 

Muslim. Now I may have to eat my words

in terms of some sects of Islam in the Sahel.

Water purification rites are there in

Islam but not in Christianity. 

The calendar Is  about 622 years apart,

between Islam and Christianity.

The Christian Pope has some kind of infallibility

 that does not exist in Islam or Judaism- as

far as I know.

Two of these religions seem to be highly 

misogynistic in their fundamentalist  form. 

One of them is heavily implicated in sex abuse

lawsuits and has paid about 3 billion

dollars in penalties / settlements thus far 

in the US alone.

But in the final analysis the best person 

to enlighten us on this issue  is Cornelius,

 the Wise and I hope he shares his insider

Knowledge  and erudition with us.

Professor Gloria Emeagwali
Prof. of History/African Studies, CCSU
africahistory.net; vimeo.com/ gloriaemeagwali
Recipient of the 2014 Distinguished Research
Excellence Award, Univ. of Texas at Austin;
2019 Distinguished Africanist Award
New York African Studies Association

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From: usaafric...@googlegroups.com <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Jibrin Ibrahim <jibrinib...@gmail.com>

Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2021 12:28 PM

To: 'chidi opara reports' via USA Africa Dialogue Series <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Barewa

 

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OAA

My point is that the three religions share the same prophets, philosophy and core theology but I agree they are not identical. 

Professor Jibrin Ibrahim

Senior Fellow

Centre for Democracy and Development, Abuja

Follow me on twitter @jibrinibrahim17

On Wed, 24 Mar 2021 at 16:47, OLAYINKA AGBETUYI <yagb...@hotmail.com> wrote:

Oga Jibrin:

For the three faiths there is one God but that one God is NOT the SAME for the trio.

The character of Yahweh ( or Yashem as Oga Cornelius teaches us) is different from that of Allah and Jews will be cross if you told them they might as well pray to Allah.

If the character of the Christian God can be substituted for that of Allah then what was all the blood letting in the Crusades about?

Again if the Muslims and the Christians pray to one and the SAME god, there wouldn't be all the contemporary fracas over the Temple Mount and the intifada.

We rely on you as a graduate of Barewa College and member of BOBA to spearhead the changes in that philosophy of religion propagated to current students to reflect that it is  fit for purpose for the current evolutionary change in Nigeria today which is different from the 1921 focus of Barewa.  

As Bishop Kukah acknowledged in the zoom interview, the Nigerian state of today has evolved beyond the scope of conception at independence and a major part of the problem is those in charge of government are using a blueprint of governance no longer fit for purpose.  Nigeria is not a religious duopoly and people in position of influence should not pander to governments around the country discriminating in favour of  two minority religions ( no matter the aggressive membership drive)  against the majority of indigenous religions around the country.

In fact governments around the country ( both states and federal) should be sued for this propensity since independence.

OAA

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From: Jibrin Ibrahim <jibrinib...@gmail.com>

Date: 24/03/2021 09:29 (GMT+00:00)

To: 'chidi opara reports' via USA Africa Dialogue Series <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>

Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Barewa

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Of course there are different Gods but for Jews, Christians and Muslims, THERE IS BUT ONE GOD, i am told.

Professor Jibrin Ibrahim

Senior Fellow

Centre for Democracy and Development, Abuja

Follow me on twitter @jibrinibrahim17

On Tue, 23 Mar 2021 at 19:55, OLAYINKA AGBETUYI <yagb...@hotmail.com> wrote:

The first error is to posit that it is the same God that we worship.

Youths of today are more sophisticated in their thinking and they know that the Gods of Islam and Christianity are similar, they are NOT the same.  What of other non- monotheistic Gods?

This book has therefore outlived it's usefulness and a new book should be put together to emphasise the pluralism and hererogendered nature of Godhead to teach mutual respect among the youths.

OAA

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From: Jibrin Ibrahim <jibrinib...@gmail.com>

Date: 23/03/2021 15:46 (GMT+00:00)

To: 'chidi opara reports' via USA Africa Dialogue Series <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>

Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Barewa

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Barewa College and Civics: Do young Nigerians know that Christians and Muslims worship the same God?

 Jibrin Ibrahim

Newsdairyonline August 16, 2018  

Two weeks ago, 32 of us met in Zaria to commemorate our first reunion that cold day of 5^th January 1968 as the new intake of Barewa College Zaria. There were 132 of us in the set of 1968. So far, 35 of us have transitioned to the next world. In our conversations on the departed ones, it turned out that most of them died in road accidents over the 50-year period. Surviving in Nigeria is a lottery and so many of us die early due to completely avoidable accidents. We reflected on changing times. In 1968, we were in the middle of one of the most bloody civil wars in Nigerian history. Nonetheless, most of us were simply directed to the motor park without any escort and took lorries and busses from our provinces to Zaria and on to the school. Fifty years later, many of us were apprehensive about going to Zaria due to the multiple conflicts in our provinces. Those from Adamawa, Sardauna and Bornu provinces spoke of the persistence of the insurgency in the North east. Friends from Plateau and Benue provinces were concerned about inter-communal conflicts and the pastoral challenge they face. The members from Sokoto, Zaria and Katsina provinces recounted stories of their communities being sucked into rural banditry while travellers from Kano, Kabba, Ilorin and Niger provinces said they too are no longer safe. The last hurdle was of course the Abuja-Kaduna crossing where everyone had the fear of kidnappers on their mind.

I had not seen some of my class mates since we went our various ways after the WAEC exams in 1972 and some of them looked very old. Maybe that was my brain telling me that I am getting old myself. We used the Golden Jubilee celebration to launch improvements to the school facilities sponsored by the Class of 1968 as we had been agonising for a long time on how dilapidated the school had become. One thing that surprised me was when some of my mates told the principal that they never came back for the school certificates. Within ten minutes, the principal was able to give all of them their certificates. It was good to see that all our files are still intact.

One of the greatest influences in our lives has been the broad introduction we had to comparative religious education in Barewa College. This was through daily readings in assembly from: "A Book of Prayers and Readings." In 1958, the Northern Nigerian Governmentpublished the book for use in mixed assemblies of Muslim and Christian students. In his Forward to the book, Minister of Education Aliyu Makama made the important point that:

"Both Muslims and Christians are <people of the Book> and it is myearnest prayer and hope that from this book of Prayers and Readings the younger generation in particular may learn the vital truth that the things which unite us are far more important than the things that divide us."

The daily readings created in us the realization that our religions have the same values and that everyone that respect their religion must also respect other religions that draw from the same belief and value pool. It is this education about comparative religion that is missing in Nigeria today and we have so many young people who lack education in their own religion and their ignorance pushed them into the belief that the other religion is the enemy whose adherents must be killed. The book taught us about the unity of God.

THE UNITY OF GOD

God is One, the Ancient of days: Eternal, having no beginning: Everlasting, having no end, continuing for evermore. He is the First and the Last, Whose wisdom extendeth over all. He cannot be likened to anything else that exists, nor is anything like unto Him, nor is He contained by the earth or the heavens, for He is exalted far above the earth and the dust thereof.

AL GHAZALI

I am the first and I am the last, and beside me there is no God.

ISAIAH

Stand up and bless the Lord your God from everlasting to everlasting: and blessed be Thy glorious Name, which is exalted above all blessing and praise. Thou art the Lord, even Thou alone; Thou hast made heaven and the heaven of heavens, with all their host; the earth, and all the things that are therein; the seas and all that is in them; and Thou preservest them all and the host of heaven worship Thee.

NEHEMIAH

GOD'S LOVE FOR MAN: MAN'S OF GOD

Readings:

Ere he made us He loved us, and when we were made we loved Him.

JULIAN OF NORWICH

Who so knows God, loves Him, and who so loves Him He makes to dwell with Him, and whom He makes to dwell with Him, blessed is he, yea blessed.

AL MUHASIBI

RELIANCE UPON GOD

Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin: And yet I say unto you that even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. Wherefore, if God so cloth the grass of the field, which to-day is, and to-morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith? Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? Or, What shall we drink? Or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed? But seek ye first the kingdom of God and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

1.     MATHEW'S GOSPEL

If ye rely upon God as He ought to be relied on, He will provide you as He provides the birds; they go out empty and hungry in the morning and come back big-bellied at eventide.

UMAR (T.I)

PRAYER

Ask and thou shalt be given it.

IBNI MASUD (T.I)

Ask and ye shall receive; seek and ye shall find; knock and it shall be opened unto you.

ST MATHEW'S GOSPEL

THE SPIRITUAL COMBAT

Readings:

In the field of this body a great war goes forward against passion, anger, pride and greed; it is in the kingdom of truth, contentment and purity that this battle is ragging and the sword that rings forth most loudly is the sword of His Name. It is a hard fight and a weary one, this fight of the truth seeker, for the truth seeker's battle goes on day and night; as long as life lasts it never ceases.

KABIR

Know you not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the price? So run that ye may obtain. And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things, now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown, but we an incorruptible. I therefore run not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air; but I keep under my body and bring it into subjection, lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

ST PAUL

HUMILITY AND PENITENCE

Prayers:

My God, of Thy mercy forgive me my sins. O Lord, through my sinful deeds make me fear Thy justice, yet the greatness of Thy compassion makes me hope in Thee. O Lord, I have not merited Paradise by my deeds, and I cannot endure the pains of Hell, so I entrust myself simply to Thy grace. Wash me from my sins; give me the hope of redeemed and in Thy mercy cast me not away from Thy presence.

YAHAYA B. MADH-EL-RAZI

Wash me thoroughly from my wickedness, and cleanse me from my sins; cast me not away from Thy presence, and take Thy Holy Spirit from me.

PSALMS

THE VALUE OF KNOWLEDGE

Wisdom is glorious and never fadeth away; yea, she is easily seen of them that love her, and found of them that seek her. She goeth before them that desire her, in making herself first known unto them. Whoso seeketh her early shall have no great travail, for he shall find her sitting at his doors.

WISDOM OF SOLOMON

Knowledge is to the mind as a lamp to the eye, and as the light of the sun to the sight. Knowledge was given to man by God, so that his reason, making use therefore, might enable him to realise how the darkness of ignorance veils him from the remembrance of the next world and the regard of his Lord upon him.

AL MUHASIBI

My prayer today is that state ministries of education should look up this book of readings and prayers and use it or a similar instrument to teach the younger generation what we learnt – that Christianity and Islam draw from the same principles and value pool. Let it be known that the greatest ignorance is Christians and Muslims killing themselves in "gods" name. Knowledge is knowing it's the same God that we worship.

 

Professor Jibrin Ibrahim

Senior Fellow

Centre for Democracy and Development, Abuja

Follow me on twitter @jibrinibrahim17

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