Correction/Addition
Needless to say that you may lose your kingdom if you refuse to do genocide, according to Philip Jenkins, a professor at Penn State University.
Some of these examples are identified in his book "Jesus Wars."
On Mar 26, 2021, at 13:25, Emeagwali, Gloria (History) <emeagwali@ccsu.edu> wrote:
Yes.I agree that there is wisdom in some religiousteachings ie moral philosophy. There are alsoreprehensible, vindictive exhortations thatyou really want to unlearn:
"Kill both man and woman, infant and nursingchild,ox and sheep," Saul was asked to do.Needless to say that you may lose yourkingdom if you refuse to do genocide.
"Slay the idolaters wherever you find them"
Is that why a ten year old kid inMozambique lost his head last week?
For some of "the greatest hits"
https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5861bd66e4b068764965be0a/amp
"Violence in the Bible:Greatest Hits"
Professor Gloria Emeagwali
Prof. of History/African Studies, CCSU
africahistory.net; vimeo.com/ gloriaemeagwali
Recipient of the 2014 Distinguished Research
Excellence Award, Univ. of Texas at Austin;
2019 Distinguished Africanist Award
New York African Studies Association
From: 'Biko Agozino' via USA Africa Dialogue Series <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Friday, March 26, 2021 11:06 AM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Barewa--Please be cautious: **External Email**
Love your enemy as yourself because often you are your own worst enemy. When King David was cursing his enemies, he was actually cursing his family. He got his best general killed in order to steal his wife and his country was overrun by enemies; his sons gang-raped his daughter and he only wept; and when his handsome son deposed the senile old man he absolutely went to war against his son Absalom and had him killed before covering himself with ash and sackcloth in shame.
When a pastor asked a man to say the vengeful Psalm 35 against his enemies, the man told him that he prefers to say the Lord's Prayer, especially the part that says; forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us, incidentally this is implied in Psalm 35 where David prayed for his enemies, including his son.
General Ironsi surrounded himself with Christian officers who did not hesitate to tie him to their military truck and drag him to death despite worshipping in the same church, never mind the same God; the British Government declared that the genocide against the Igbo was not a religious war because 70% of the genocidist military were Christians from the South and the Middle Belt; Shagari and the peasants of Bakalori Dam worshipped the same Allah but he gave them waka shege and Shagari and Buhari and idiagbon bowed down to the same Allah in the same Mosque and yet the dictators had no qualms deposing the elected; Babangida and Buhari belonged to the same Umma and yet B overthrew B and annulled the election of his Muslim bros, Abiola; Abacha pushed his Muslim brother aside to take over from the Christian stooge, Shonekan, before hanging Saro-Wiwa who must have converted to Islam to marry his Hausa wife; Obasanjo claims to be born again and yet visited hell fire upon the Christian town of Odi; and Boko Haram are busy kidnapping gwongworo loads of Muslim school boys and girls and sacking Muslim villages.
Religion is the opiate of the people, the soul of soulless conditions and the heart of heartless situations. In the 1980s, Eskor Toyo led us to conduct a research project for MAMSER with a focus on the political manipulation of religion - case studies. Without mentioning Nigerias, we documented the evidence of the damage done by the politicization of religion around the world. But they no dey hear.
Gloria is right that religion is hypocritical but there is still wisdom in some religious teachings - forgiving and loving the enemy is also good for you because we are a bundle of humanity in Ubuntu, Mbari or the World House of MLK Jr. Africans forgive the unforgivable, said Derrida. The survivors of enslavement, colonialism, apartheid, and genocide in Africa are not seeking revenge. Learn from them and seek only reparative justice.
Biko
--On Friday, 26 March 2021, 09:33:26 GMT-4, Gloria Emeagwali <gloria.emeagwali@gmail.com> wrote:
--The sad thing is that many "believers" use religion as a cover to conceal unjust and selfish behavior. Greed, and even pedophilia are covered up. Many of these "believers" are implicated in under compensating their workers and outright theft.They run to church, utter a few verses and feel psychologically protected from their systematic plunder
"We came here to serve god and get rich"said Bernal Diaz as he prepared to slaughter and steal the land of the non-Christian "Other" in the Americas. Victims of enslavement were treated to an "amazingly gracious"mea culpa religious song, instead of "reparative justice"- to quote Biko Agozino.
I disagree with Ken. Some of the theologies are structurally flawed.I identified the misogyny and militaristic language embedded in text, some months ago as have many other daredevils.
Now we are getting more information of atrocities in Canada and the United States of thousands of Indigenous children abducted from their families and systematically thrown into Church- run abusive residential hostels. The Canada Residential Schools Settlement Agreement of 2013, attempted to deal with some of the atrocities. More information is surfacing to date. The institutions were able to get away with criminality due to the unholy alliance of church and state, and individuals trapped under the spell of irrational dogma.
Gloria Emeagwali
On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 06:19 OLAYINKA AGBETUYI <yagbetuyi@hotmail.com> wrote:
Ken
Our conclusions are not different. Remove religion and people on behalf of whom others are conquered have scales fall from their eyes and cannot justify their evil intent.
In the UK for example the abolitionists used the argument to end slavery, but the freed slaves did not because of that change back to their old religions but used their freed status to work for the interests of those who freed them who are part
of the society that enslaved them in the first instance till today and that is the core of my argument meaning they have 'seen the light' ( of civilization) and continue the game of spreading it among their own people for their principals.
My ancestral land was razed to the ground by the Fulani literally like thieves in the night just like the Almoravids did on ancient Ghana because both societies were seen as heathens and would not convert to Islamic monotheism peacefully.
Moses and his supporters conquered the ' promised land' by force of arms and 'post facto' justified their conquest by saying it was promised land by Yahweh ( this act of violent dispossession!)
What of Benin massacre by the English because the indigenes reacted to the despoliation of their rituals e.tc, etc?
OAA
Sent from my Galaxy
-------- Original message --------
From: "Harrow, Kenneth" <harrow@msu.edu>
Date: 25/03/2021 22:40 (GMT+00:00)
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Barewa
olayinka
people enforcing their codes on other people is truly obscene.
since roman times jews have not had a nation or power to enforce codes onto others, until now with israel. even there, the orthodox impose their codes, like kosher rules or shabbat rules, on others within the country. but they couldn't care less about non-jewish
observance, thinking the blessings go with themselves, those who observe the rules. jews do not proselytize.
but even when christians did proselytize, the conquest was the fundamental issue, i believe. they came and conquered, and incidentally converted.
muslims converted without real proselytizing; but when central africa came under muslim control, the enslaved people were often impeded from converting since muslims were taught not to enslave fellow muslims.
who could not become cynical about religion under these circumstances?
you might think the expansion of belief in one god was at play; but conversions to any of these religions didn't stop all the wars and exploitation, didn't stop any of the historical abuses, since people will use religion to rationalize these practices, not
really to end them. i don't blame religion or praise it: it is people who establish these practices, and then tell the world that was what god wanted.
if you removed "god" from the equation, that wouldn't stop the conquering, the exploitation, the abuses. it is people who act in what they think is their own interest, and rationalize it, often using religion.
ken
kenneth harrow
professor emeritus
dept of english
michigan state university
517 803-8839
From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> on behalf of OLAYINKA AGBETUYI <yagbetuyi@hotmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2021 3:38 PM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: RE: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Barewa
Ken.
Well put. No one quarrels with secular Jews, many of whom may not be recognised as Jews, because there is no outward dress codes observed,until people castigate Jews in their presence and they are shocked they have shot themselves in the foot.
It is those who want to enforce a written code made for a particular period of development for all times, violently that are the issue. They think because it was written down it must not be changed. This in large part was what
informed Derrida's notion of violence of the letter: 'You have no written religion you have no religion'; those who have written religions must enforce its tenets against others for all time.
And that is where colonialism comes in with the enforcement of a Papal Bull, which even African lettered intellectuals carry on today as a form of evangelised neo- colonialism i.e. defending by all guises what was used to carry their ancestors
into captivity and slavery and the Muslim intellectual elites try to match them in this race.
It is that structure that it is only the worship of one God that can be right and it's dated written commands must be carried out
at all costs that is behind most of the legitimised violence. Violent Schisms are only a subtext of this mind set that says only an interpretation can be right to the same God and the others must be violently quashed.
OAA
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-------- Original message --------
From: "Harrow, Kenneth" <harrow@msu.edu>
Date: 25/03/2021 16:35 (GMT+00:00)
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Barewa
dear all, when i think of religion and how to define it, i would have say it is mostly meaningful in how it is practised. in that regard, each of these religions has enormously wide variations in practices. between the ultra-orthodox in judaism, and the reform
or reconsructionist variations it is really day to night differences, and even scorn or worse. but in general jews do not proselatize, as the other two faiths do.
between sufi islam and legalistic islam it also has been such hatred and violence as to eliminate the one version (often enough sufi or brotherhood versions) from salafi or other branches, esp in the saudi peninsula. and so on. under the cover of islam saudi
sunnis and persian shiites fight it out. look at the ongoing war in yemen, the conflicts in the middle east, with these two protagonists.
and between catholics, protestants, unitarians, evangelicals is also a huge gulf. wars of religion for centuries; wholesale inquisitions and oppression. wars against muslims and expulsion of jews and muslims etc. the history couldn't be uglier. but that's only
part of the story.
how to generalize?
much of judaism is practiced not through acts of faith as much as what is called tsedaka, like charity of arabic, sadaq.
i think of both islam and judaism lean in the direction of actions more than faith. for many jews it is adherence to the culture of a community, with no faith at all for probably half--secular jews. the fanatics of both judaism and islam, ultraorthodox or islamists,
are really the curse of our religions since they are willing to go to war against non-believers, willing to condemn women to inferior status, to condone vile acts against people as if they were gods themselves, as if they had god's ear, as if they knew what
god would want.
but christianity has lots of charity, lots of emphasize on good acts, like the other two; but perhaps more tied into acts of faith, talk about faith etc etc. i think evangelicals would tie faith to prosperity more than the other branches; would emphasize success
in the here and now, whereas calvanists would lean more to fatalism and the hereafter.
where is god in all this? these religions profess a common god, a common source or origin, and the notion of a high god in african religions was often marked by efforts, like mbiti's, to reconcile african beliefs with christian faith. i think that is the wrong
approach. rather, i would ask how each religion reflected the social structures, validated the dominant values and dominant forces in each case. that's a materialist view of religion, which i share.
lastly, without any effort we all could cite the worst of human tendencies in each of these religions, and we could also cite the beautiful and ineffable. that is not inherent in these religions, but in their adherents. if we abolished these religions, all
the slaughter and oppression they advocate would continue, under another heading, like Love of Nation or whatever. Likewise, we would have human creation and its beauties continue as well. it is part of how people organize the world. and to rationalize it,
to justify it, to validate and give it dominance, they proclaim it to be handed to them by god.
well, we are all free to believe what we want. until the Believers take hold and impose their ways.
ken
From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Emeagwali, Gloria (History) <emeagwali@ccsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2021 7:46 AM
To: Cornelius Hamelberg <corneliushamelberg@gmail.com>; USA Africa Dialogue Series <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Barewa
Let me add that of the three religions
Judaism seems to be the more rational
to me, although the three are implicated
in cultural imperialistic activities.
The three seem to have the concept of
devilry and sin, unlike many African and
Asian religions, and original sin seems to be
crucial in one of them. With Islam you have
no burden to bear though once you commit
to the religion and so the original sin concept
is almost null and void.
Professor Gloria Emeagwali
Prof. of History/African Studies, CCSU
africahistory.net; vimeo.com/ gloriaemeagwali
Recipient of the 2014 Distinguished Research
Excellence Award, Univ. of Texas at Austin;
2019 Distinguished Africanist Award
New York African Studies Association
From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Cornelius Hamelberg <corneliushamelberg@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2021 1:01 AM
To: USA Africa Dialogue Series <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Barewa
Please be cautious: **External Email**
This is so deliberately provocative that it must be the misogynist he-devil or anti-Semitic she-devil that must be at work here, causing you to write that it is a religion itself per se and not a lapsed or "fallen"
adherent of any such religion/ way of life that you are wrongfully accusing when you say that "One of them is heavily implicated in sex abuse
lawsuits and has paid about 3 billion dollars in penalties / settlements thus far in the US alone."
Your sole aim is to discredit a religion and to promote some discussion.
Of relevance to those who see some of what Judaism and Islam have in common - namely Judaic elements borrowed and adapted by Islam, including some of the Judaic myths,
legends and
midrashic stories in the Quran.
Interesting too,
Judaism and Islam by Erwin I. J. Rosenthal and of course
Jewish Views on Islam and some of the interesting differences with regard to what Islam says about Jesus (no crucifixion and no resurrection – the centrepiece of Christianity) especially in the light of sceptics such as
Bart
Ehrman and the aggressive Kenneth
Humphreys views on Jesus
As you may not be aware, blessed are they who were not there and yet believe.
"Blessed are they who have not seen and yet believe."
I know that Don Harrow is the best person on this matter with his vast experience of Islam in North Africa.
Please carryon with your discussion;.
On Thursday, 25 March 2021 at 02:10:47 UTC+1 Emeagwali, Gloria (History) wrote:
I am not so sure about the three religions
sharing core theology. In Islam
and Judaism Jesus is not divine and definitely not
a son of God but just another human or
messenger. The role of Jesus in
Christianity borders on cultism, in the
view
of some Muslims and followers of Judaism.
The Trinity concept is also rejected by two
of the religions.
You don't have images, Caucasian
or not plastered on the walls or erected
within the place of worship if you are a
Muslim. Now I may have to eat my words
in terms of some sects of Islam in the Sahel.
Water purification rites are there in
Islam but not in Christianity.
The calendar Is about 622 years apart,
between Islam and Christianity.
The Christian Pope has some kind of infallibility
that does not exist in Islam or Judaism- as
far as I know.
Two of these religions seem to be highly
misogynistic in their fundamentalist
form.
One of them is heavily implicated in sex abuse
lawsuits and has paid about 3 billion
dollars in penalties / settlements thus far
in the US alone.
But in the final analysis the best person
to enlighten us on this issue is Cornelius,
the Wise and I hope he shares his insider
Knowledge and erudition with us.
Professor Gloria Emeagwali
Prof. of History/African Studies, CCSU
africahistory.net;
vimeo.com/ gloriaemeagwali
Recipient of the 2014 Distinguished Research
Excellence Award, Univ. of Texas at Austin;
2019 Distinguished Africanist Award
New York African Studies Association
From:
usaafric...@googlegroups.com <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Jibrin Ibrahim <jibrinib...@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2021 12:28 PM
To: 'chidi opara reports' via USA Africa Dialogue Series <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Barewa
Please be cautious: **External Email**
OAA
My point is that the three religions share the same prophets, philosophy and core theology but I agree they are not identical.
Professor Jibrin Ibrahim
Senior Fellow
Centre for Democracy and Development, Abuja
Follow me on twitter @jibrinibrahim17
Oga Jibrin:
For the three faiths there is one God but that one God is NOT
the SAME for the trio.
The character of Yahweh ( or Yashem as Oga Cornelius teaches us) is different from that of Allah and Jews will be cross if you told them they might as well pray to Allah.
If the character of the Christian God can be substituted for that of Allah then what was all the blood letting in the Crusades about?
Again if the Muslims and the Christians pray to one and the SAME
god, there wouldn't be all the contemporary fracas over the Temple Mount and the intifada.
We rely on you as a graduate of Barewa College and member of BOBA to spearhead the changes in that philosophy of religion propagated to current students to reflect that it is fit for purpose for the current evolutionary change in Nigeria today
which is different from the 1921 focus of Barewa.
As Bishop Kukah acknowledged in the zoom interview, the Nigerian state of today has evolved beyond the scope of conception at independence and a major part of the problem is those in charge of government are using a blueprint of governance no
longer fit for purpose. Nigeria is not a religious duopoly and people in position of influence should not pander to governments around the country discriminating in favour of two minority religions ( no matter the aggressive membership drive) against the
majority of indigenous religions around the country.
In fact governments around the country ( both states and federal) should be sued for this propensity since independence.
OAA
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Of course there are different Gods but for Jews, Christians and Muslims, THERE IS BUT ONE GOD, i am told.
Professor Jibrin Ibrahim
Senior Fellow
Centre for Democracy and Development, Abuja
Follow me on twitter @jibrinibrahim17
The first error is to posit that it is the same God that we worship.
Youths of today are more sophisticated in their thinking and they know that the Gods of Islam and Christianity are similar, they are
NOT the same. What of other non- monotheistic Gods?
This book has therefore outlived it's usefulness and a new book should be put together to emphasise the pluralism and hererogendered nature of Godhead to teach mutual respect among the youths.
OAA
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Date: 23/03/2021 15:46 (GMT+00:00)
Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Barewa
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Barewa College and Civics: Do young Nigerians know that Christians and Muslims worship the same God?
Jibrin Ibrahim
Two weeks ago, 32 of us met in Zaria to commemorate our first reunion that cold day of 5th January 1968 as the new intake of Barewa College Zaria. There were 132 of us in the set of 1968.
So far, 35 of us have transitioned to the next world. In our conversations on the departed ones, it turned out that most of them died in road accidents over the 50-year period. Surviving in Nigeria is a lottery and so many of us die early due to completely
avoidable accidents. We reflected on changing times. In 1968, we were in the middle of
one of the most bloody civil wars in Nigerian history.
Nonetheless, most of us were simply directed to the motor park without any escort and took lorries and busses from our provinces to Zaria and on to the school. Fifty years later, many of us were apprehensive about going to Zaria due to the multiple conflicts
in our provinces. Those from Adamawa, Sardauna and Bornu provinces spoke of the persistence of the insurgency in the North east. Friends from Plateau and Benue provinces were concerned about inter-communal conflicts and the pastoral challenge they face. The
members from Sokoto, Zaria and Katsina provinces recounted stories of their communities being sucked into rural banditry while travellers from Kano, Kabba, Ilorin and Niger provinces said they too are no longer
safe. The last hurdle was of course the Abuja-Kaduna crossing where everyone had
the fear of kidnappers on their mind.
I had not seen some of my class
mates since we went our various ways after the WAEC exams in 1972 and some of them looked very old.
Maybe that was my brain
telling me that I am getting old myself.
We used the Golden Jubilee celebration to launch improvements to the school facilities sponsored by the Class of 1968 as we had been agonising for a long time on how dilapidated the school had become. One thing that surprised me was when some of my mates
told the principal that they never came back for
the school certificates. Within ten minutes, the principal was able to give all of them their certificates. It was good to see that all our files are still intact.
One of the greatest influences in our lives has been the broad introduction we
had to comparative religious education in Barewa College. This was through daily readings in assembly from: "A Book of Prayers and Readings." In 1958, the Northern Nigerian Governmentpublished
the book for use in mixed assemblies of Muslim and Christian students. In his Forward to the book, Minister of Education Aliyu Makama made the important point that:
"Both Muslims and Christians are <people of the Book> and it is myearnest
prayer and hope that from this book of Prayers and Readings the younger generation in particular may learn the vital truth that the things which unite us are far more important than the things that divide us."
The daily readings created in us the realization that our religions have the same values and that everyone that
respect their religion must also respect other religions that draw from the same belief and value pool. It is this education about comparative religion that is missing in Nigeria today and we have so many young people who lack education in their own religion
and their ignorance pushed them into the belief that the other religion is the enemy whose adherents must be killed. The book taught us about the unity of God.
THE UNITY OF GOD
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