The sex abuse lawsuits elegantly sidestepped as mortal humanity battles on. The salvific idea that Jesus has already died for all our sins must have something to do with such sexual transgressions, but the church continues to impose celibacy on the clergy so that the clergy ( the priests, the bishops and the nuns don't start multiplying as their offspring would have to legally inherit their holdings on church property because this could lead to the gradual diminishing of the church's considerable financial assets in the kingdom of this world...
The baptism of the Ethiopian eunuch is very promising, that it happened immediately, whereas nowadays with The Eastern Orthodox Church it takes a while...
If only one had world enough and time one could looka here: The Pre-Nicene New Testament: Fifty-Four Formative Texts
I look forward to learning a lot from the experienced adherents of Christianity as they discuss Pastor Jibrin Ibrahim's ideas. So far, my own very limited understanding is that even though the discussion is supposed to be focused on Christianity and al-Islam we cannot even begin a serious discussion without visiting the very foundations of those two separate religious developments arising from what is to be understood as the Prophetic tradition of the Hebrew Faith from which baby Jesus drew sustenance along with his mother's milk, followed by Muhammad Ibn Abdullah, salallahu alaihi wa salaam who received his first revelation through the Angel Gabriel 610 years after the birth of Jesus.
Can Christianity or Islam exist, stand on their own two legs without reference or support from the Prophetic Tradition of Israel? Of course not, even if Christianity claims supersessionism and takes solace in replacement theology , whilst Muslims are confident that the houris are waiting for them in Paradise and that the Almighty Who Islam refers to as "Allah" is not going to accept any other religion but Islam as completed by Islam's Last Prophet, salallahu alaihi wa salaam.
God forbid that I should run away from this kind of discussion. I'm not running away, it's just that I 'm really disinterested in arguing about such immaterial matters and any serious dissenter, rejecter or disbeliever could start by reasonably questioning the very foundations of Christianity which is most essentially based on the myth of the fall of man - that Adam sinned - and as Christian apologists are fond of quoting Genesis 3: 15 which states "And I shall place hatred between you and between the woman, and between your seed and between her seed. He will crush your head, and you will bite his heel " in support of their theory that "Jesus died for our sins" Galilean Judaism, or just plain "Judaism" which was the religion that Jesus was born into, has its own understandings of Genesis 3: 15 and it's own understanding of Isaiah 53
Jonas Gardell is a comedian who has dabbled in queer theology and written a fascinating and immensely readable book "Om Jesus" (About Jesus). The blurb introduces his book with this sobering conjecture : "Most skeletons found from the time Jesus lived show a lack of iron and protein, skulls of forty-year-olds often have few or no teeth left. Life was hard and you died young. Only a minority got to experience their twenty-fifth birthday. We would like to see Jesus as a relatively young man, but when he started his business at about the age of thirty, he was rather one who had lived longer than most. We like to think of Jesus' gentle, loving smile. So now add that the smile was probably toothless and we will probably get a fairer picture. Can we imagine Jesus toothless? Can we imagine him uneducated? Very few of our notions of Jesus Christ agree with Joshua of Nazareth. A Jesus Christ rises before us as the King returning from heaven to judge the living and the dead. And in the periphery we see another figure fleeing into the shadows, a short and stocky, dark-skinned man aged prematurely by poverty and wandering. A simple craftsman from the Galilee countryside who the government executed for preventive purposes. A man who spread the message of the kingdom of God. Exciting? This is only the beginning! "
My own personal study of Christianity began with a guided tour of the so called New Testament – through The Jewish Annotated New Testament - which situates the birth of Christianity, the life of Jesus, the stories in the Gospels and letters of Paul and other Apostles in their proper historical and cultural context, supplemented by The Jerusalem Perspective on Jesus
Let me add that of the three religionsJudaism seems to be the more rationalto me, although the three are implicatedin cultural imperialistic activities.
The three seem to have the concept ofdevilry and sin, unlike many African andAsian religions, and original sin seems to becrucial in one of them. With Islam you haveno burden to bear though once you committo the religion and so the original sin conceptis almost null and void.
Professor Gloria Emeagwali
Prof. of History/African Studies, CCSU
africahistory.net; vimeo.com/ gloriaemeagwali
Recipient of the 2014 Distinguished Research
Excellence Award, Univ. of Texas at Austin;
2019 Distinguished Africanist Award
New York African Studies Association
From: usaafric...@googlegroups.com <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Cornelius Hamelberg <cornelius...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2021 1:01 AM
To: USA Africa Dialogue Series <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - BarewaPlease be cautious: **External Email**
This is so deliberately provocative that it must be the misogynist he-devil or anti-Semitic she-devil that must be at work here, causing you to write that it is a religion itself per se and not a lapsed or "fallen" adherent of any such religion/ way of life that you are wrongfully accusing when you say that "One of them is heavily implicated in sex abuse lawsuits and has paid about 3 billion dollars in penalties / settlements thus far in the US alone."
Your sole aim is to discredit a religion and to promote some discussion.
Of relevance to those who see some of what Judaism and Islam have in common - namely Judaic elements borrowed and adapted by Islam, including some of the Judaic myths, legends and midrashic stories in the Quran.
Interesting too, Judaism and Islam by Erwin I. J. Rosenthal and of course Jewish Views on Islam and some of the interesting differences with regard to what Islam says about Jesus (no crucifixion and no resurrection – the centrepiece of Christianity) especially in the light of sceptics such as Bart Ehrman and the aggressive Kenneth Humphreys views on Jesus
As you may not be aware, blessed are they who were not there and yet believe.
"Blessed are they who have not seen and yet believe."
I know that Don Harrow is the best person on this matter with his vast experience of Islam in North Africa.
Please carryon with your discussion;.
--On Thursday, 25 March 2021 at 02:10:47 UTC+1 Emeagwali, Gloria (History) wrote:
I am not so sure about the three religionssharing core theology. In Islamand Judaism Jesus is not divine and definitely nota son of God but just another human ormessenger. The role of Jesus inChristianity borders on cultism, in the viewof some Muslims and followers of Judaism.
The Trinity concept is also rejected by twoof the religions.
You don't have images, Caucasianor not plastered on the walls or erectedwithin the place of worship if you are aMuslim. Now I may have to eat my wordsin terms of some sects of Islam in the Sahel.
Water purification rites are there inIslam but not in Christianity.The calendar Is about 622 years apart,
between Islam and Christianity.The Christian Pope has some kind of infallibility
that does not exist in Islam or Judaism- asfar as I know.
Two of these religions seem to be highlymisogynistic in their fundamentalist form.One of them is heavily implicated in sex abuselawsuits and has paid about 3 billiondollars in penalties / settlements thus farin the US alone.
But in the final analysis the best personto enlighten us on this issue is Cornelius,the Wise and I hope he shares his insiderKnowledge and erudition with us.
Professor Gloria Emeagwali
Prof. of History/African Studies, CCSU
africahistory.net; vimeo.com/ gloriaemeagwali
Recipient of the 2014 Distinguished Research
Excellence Award, Univ. of Texas at Austin;
2019 Distinguished Africanist Award
New York African Studies Association
From: usaafric...@googlegroups.com <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Jibrin Ibrahim <jibrinib...@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2021 12:28 PM
To: 'chidi opara reports' via USA Africa Dialogue Series <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - BarewaPlease be cautious: **External Email**
OAA
My point is that the three religions share the same prophets, philosophy and core theology but I agree they are not identical.
Professor Jibrin IbrahimSenior FellowCentre for Democracy and Development, AbujaFollow me on twitter @jibrinibrahim17
--On Wed, 24 Mar 2021 at 16:47, OLAYINKA AGBETUYI <yagb...@hotmail.com> wrote:
--
Oga Jibrin:
For the three faiths there is one God but that one God is NOT the SAME for the trio.
The character of Yahweh ( or Yashem as Oga Cornelius teaches us) is different from that of Allah and Jews will be cross if you told them they might as well pray to Allah.
If the character of the Christian God can be substituted for that of Allah then what was all the blood letting in the Crusades about?
Again if the Muslims and the Christians pray to one and the SAME god, there wouldn't be all the contemporary fracas over the Temple Mount and the intifada.
We rely on you as a graduate of Barewa College and member of BOBA to spearhead the changes in that philosophy of religion propagated to current students to reflect that it is fit for purpose for the current evolutionary change in Nigeria today which is different from the 1921 focus of Barewa.
As Bishop Kukah acknowledged in the zoom interview, the Nigerian state of today has evolved beyond the scope of conception at independence and a major part of the problem is those in charge of government are using a blueprint of governance no longer fit for purpose. Nigeria is not a religious duopoly and people in position of influence should not pander to governments around the country discriminating in favour of two minority religions ( no matter the aggressive membership drive) against the majority of indigenous religions around the country.
In fact governments around the country ( both states and federal) should be sued for this propensity since independence.
OAA
Sent from my Galaxy
-------- Original message --------From: Jibrin Ibrahim <jibrinib...@gmail.com>Date: 24/03/2021 09:29 (GMT+00:00)To: 'chidi opara reports' via USA Africa Dialogue Series <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Barewa
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Of course there are different Gods but for Jews, Christians and Muslims, THERE IS BUT ONE GOD, i am told.
Professor Jibrin IbrahimSenior FellowCentre for Democracy and Development, AbujaFollow me on twitter @jibrinibrahim17
--On Tue, 23 Mar 2021 at 19:55, OLAYINKA AGBETUYI <yagb...@hotmail.com> wrote:
--
The first error is to posit that it is the same God that we worship.
Youths of today are more sophisticated in their thinking and they know that the Gods of Islam and Christianity are similar, they are NOT the same. What of other non- monotheistic Gods?
This book has therefore outlived it's usefulness and a new book should be put together to emphasise the pluralism and hererogendered nature of Godhead to teach mutual respect among the youths.
OAA
Sent from my Galaxy
-------- Original message --------From: Jibrin Ibrahim <jibrinib...@gmail.com>Date: 23/03/2021 15:46 (GMT+00:00)To: 'chidi opara reports' via USA Africa Dialogue Series <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Barewa
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--Barewa College and Civics: Do young Nigerians know that Christians and Muslims worship the same God?
Jibrin Ibrahim
Newsdairyonline August 16, 2018
Two weeks ago, 32 of us met in Zaria to commemorate our first reunion that cold day of 5th January 1968 as the new intake of Barewa College Zaria. There were 132 of us in the set of 1968. So far, 35 of us have transitioned to the next world. In our conversations on the departed ones, it turned out that most of them died in road accidents over the 50-year period. Surviving in Nigeria is a lottery and so many of us die early due to completely avoidable accidents. We reflected on changing times. In 1968, we were in the middle of one of the most bloody civil wars in Nigerian history. Nonetheless, most of us were simply directed to the motor park without any escort and took lorries and busses from our provinces to Zaria and on to the school. Fifty years later, many of us were apprehensive about going to Zaria due to the multiple conflicts in our provinces. Those from Adamawa, Sardauna and Bornu provinces spoke of the persistence of the insurgency in the North east. Friends from Plateau and Benue provinces were concerned about inter-communal conflicts and the pastoral challenge they face. The members from Sokoto, Zaria and Katsina provinces recounted stories of their communities being sucked into rural banditry while travellers from Kano, Kabba, Ilorin and Niger provinces said they too are no longer safe. The last hurdle was of course the Abuja-Kaduna crossing where everyone had the fear of kidnappers on their mind.
I had not seen some of my class mates since we went our various ways after the WAEC exams in 1972 and some of them looked very old. Maybe that was my brain telling me that I am getting old myself. We used the Golden Jubilee celebration to launch improvements to the school facilities sponsored by the Class of 1968 as we had been agonising for a long time on how dilapidated the school had become. One thing that surprised me was when some of my mates told the principal that they never came back for the school certificates. Within ten minutes, the principal was able to give all of them their certificates. It was good to see that all our files are still intact.
One of the greatest influences in our lives has been the broad introduction we had to comparative religious education in Barewa College. This was through daily readings in assembly from: "A Book of Prayers and Readings." In 1958, the Northern Nigerian Governmentpublished the book for use in mixed assemblies of Muslim and Christian students. In his Forward to the book, Minister of Education Aliyu Makama made the important point that:
"Both Muslims and Christians are <people of the Book> and it is myearnest prayer and hope that from this book of Prayers and Readings the younger generation in particular may learn the vital truth that the things which unite us are far more important than the things that divide us."
The daily readings created in us the realization that our religions have the same values and that everyone that respect their religion must also respect other religions that draw from the same belief and value pool. It is this education about comparative religion that is missing in Nigeria today and we have so many young people who lack education in their own religion and their ignorance pushed them into the belief that the other religion is the enemy whose adherents must be killed. The book taught us about the unity of God.
THE UNITY OF GOD
God is One, the Ancient of days: Eternal, having no beginning: Everlasting, having no end, continuing for evermore. He is the First and the Last, Whose wisdom extendeth over all. He cannot be likened to anything else that exists, nor is anything like unto Him, nor is He contained by the earth or the heavens, for He is exalted far above the earth and the dust thereof.
AL GHAZALI
I am the first and I am the last, and beside me there is no God.
ISAIAH
Stand up and bless the Lord your God from everlasting to everlasting: and blessed be Thy glorious Name, which is exalted above all blessing and praise. Thou art the Lord, even Thou alone; Thou hast made heaven and the heaven of heavens, with all their host; the earth, and all the things that are therein; the seas and all that is in them; and Thou preservest them all and the host of heaven worship Thee.
NEHEMIAH
GOD'S LOVE FOR MAN: MAN'S OF GOD
Readings:
Ere he made us He loved us, and when we were made we loved Him.
JULIAN OF NORWICH
Who so knows God, loves Him, and who so loves Him He makes to dwell with Him, and whom He makes to dwell with Him, blessed is he, yea blessed.
AL MUHASIBI
RELIANCE UPON GOD
Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin: And yet I say unto you that even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. Wherefore, if God so cloth the grass of the field, which to-day is, and to-morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith? Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? Or, What shall we drink? Or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed? But seek ye first the kingdom of God and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
1. MATHEW'S GOSPEL
If ye rely upon God as He ought to be relied on, He will provide you as He provides the birds; they go out empty and hungry in the morning and come back big-bellied at eventide.
UMAR (T.I)
PRAYER
Ask and thou shalt be given it.
IBNI MASUD (T.I)
Ask and ye shall receive; seek and ye shall find; knock and it shall be opened unto you.
ST MATHEW'S GOSPEL
THE SPIRITUAL COMBAT
Readings:
In the field of this body a great war goes forward against passion, anger, pride and greed; it is in the kingdom of truth, contentment and purity that this battle is ragging and the sword that rings forth most loudly is the sword of His Name. It is a hard fight and a weary one, this fight of the truth seeker, for the truth seeker's battle goes on day and night; as long as life lasts it never ceases.
KABIR
Know you not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the price? So run that ye may obtain. And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things, now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown, but we an incorruptible. I therefore run not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air; but I keep under my body and bring it into subjection, lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
ST PAUL
HUMILITY AND PENITENCE
Prayers:
My God, of Thy mercy forgive me my sins. O Lord, through my sinful deeds make me fear Thy justice, yet the greatness of Thy compassion makes me hope in Thee. O Lord, I have not merited Paradise by my deeds, and I cannot endure the pains of Hell, so I entrust myself simply to Thy grace. Wash me from my sins; give me the hope of redeemed and in Thy mercy cast me not away from Thy presence.
YAHAYA B. MADH-EL-RAZI
Wash me thoroughly from my wickedness, and cleanse me from my sins; cast me not away from Thy presence, and take Thy Holy Spirit from me.
PSALMS
THE VALUE OF KNOWLEDGE
Wisdom is glorious and never fadeth away; yea, she is easily seen of them that love her, and found of them that seek her. She goeth before them that desire her, in making herself first known unto them. Whoso seeketh her early shall have no great travail, for he shall find her sitting at his doors.
WISDOM OF SOLOMON
Knowledge is to the mind as a lamp to the eye, and as the light of the sun to the sight. Knowledge was given to man by God, so that his reason, making use therefore, might enable him to realise how the darkness of ignorance veils him from the remembrance of the next world and the regard of his Lord upon him.
AL MUHASIBI
My prayer today is that state ministries of education should look up this book of readings and prayers and use it or a similar instrument to teach the younger generation what we learnt – that Christianity and Islam draw from the same principles and value pool. Let it be known that the greatest ignorance is Christians and Muslims killing themselves in "gods" name. Knowledge is knowing it's the same God that we worship.
Professor Jibrin IbrahimSenior FellowCentre for Democracy and Development, AbujaFollow me on twitter @jibrinibrahim17
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