Baba Kadiri;
Did anyone in this thread say or imply that it was the Almighty that collapsed the building?
Otherwise, you ended your appeal on a very powerful note, quoting Jesus saying to some of those performing miracles in his name, "depart from, you workers of lawlessness.", leaving me wondering if the lawlessness that Jesus could be possibly alluding to is the 613 Commandments , traditionally the basis of the Halacha, and from which point of view, those Jews who stand outside of abiding by Haslem's laws are outlaws, guilty of lawlessness - like the ransom kidnappers in Nigeria and those who are obviously not so impressed by the pyramids and have preferred to erect skyscrapers ( like the tower of Babel) on weak foundations...
Re – The narrow-minded prochiral thinking.
At the risk of sounding pedantic, I daresay that when you wax parochial you must at the same time be brave and cautious enough to ensure that when you speak on behalf of your own true, esteemed self , you kindly leave me and all those who do not necessarily share your mindset and world view out of your grand and grandiose, post-colonial summations.
Is that too difficult to ask of you?
From you own ivory tower of Babel ( babble?) I should much prefer that you kindly leave me/ us out of all of your blanket descriptions of what you deem to be aberrations , "abomination ", the mass psychosis / induced hypnosis that you believe Middle Eastern religions to be when practised by those whose ancestors' mother tongue was neither Hebrew nor Arabic, speak less of your Nigerian Constitution which you love to quote so often, and of cours much of the Nigerian educational system that's enshrined in traditions peculiar to Her Majesty's England and her English Language representatives, here on earth, you yourself being one of the utilitarian purveyors of the language that you ( Yoruba chauvinist) so despise but are compelled to use.
Your various unqualified uses of the term " we" and "our" in this your submission sounds so inclusive, or are we to take it that you really meant to be exclusive , embracing us all in some kind of collective guilt , in that your first paragraph :
"we are mentally Arabi-sized, Islamized, Colonised, Europeanised and Christianised"
( Baba Kadiri)
"we remain stationary as nuts in the wheel of the world while the rest of the world rolls on."
( Baba Kadiri)
"We allow religious imperialism to disrobe us mentally and cincture our thinking process. Hence, our shackled minds marinate in poisoned pool of peonage and obsequiousness to Judaism and Islamism."
( Baba Kadiri)
"Our adoption and practice of Judaism and Islamism, essentially, is an admission of our cultural inferiority resulting in our inability to discover our self-worth. Charging from the mind cocooned in Islamic putridity, and Judaist odiousness..."
( Baba Kadiri)
"we glorify in religious imperialism that has victimised us mentally and physically for long. "
( Baba Kadiri)
This is the stark reality you are contending with and have to face as a 21st century Yoruba man :
Islam in the world - Islam as a world religion
Christianity in the world - Christianity as a world religion
You could also link religion to civilisation post-Jahiliyyah Islam and Missionary Christianity as harbinger of civilisation.
As you can glean from those links, the two missionary religions in question promote themselves as Universal Religions - under "One God" - and that's why the Prophet of Islam – salallahu alaihi wa salaam is venerated as " a mercy to mankind " and " a mercy to the world", whereas according to Acts 4 :12 concerning the unique person Jesus with the unique title " the only begotten son of God" , the following is Christianity's ultimate message:
" Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved. "
This means that the ball is now in Baba Kadiri's court, and Baba Kadiri can't with a straight face say that unless the message is delivered to him in his most compressible Yoruba dialect, the message has not been delivered. In which case I should strongly urge you to read the Holy Bible translated into Yoruba and to contact any of the contemporary great Yoruba pastors and Evangelists, venerable elders such as David Oyedepo , William Kumuyi and Enoch Adeboye, that perchance you may see the light as in this song to you : Could you believe , precious friend of mine...
I have great respect for you Baba Kadiri when you say that you have read the Bible from Genesis to Revelations, as I have yet to do that and I like to know my song well, before I start singing it. I have as much as possible assiduously studied and am studying the Torah of Moses . I feel sufficiently confident about that, but I'm afraid to say that up to now I have only read and understood less than half of The New Testament, so called, so I'll continue to suspend judgment about your positions, until I fel myself to be in a posution to say , " This is the only way"
Your point about language and understanding the cultural, social, political and historic context is important to the extent that you have The Jewish Annotated New Testament at your service, should you seek that kind of elucidation. Dr. Eli Lizorkin-Eyzenberg is busy making similar points and would like people with questions like yours to read his books.There's the excellant website Jerusalem Perspective, and Jews for Judaism, people like Rabbi Tovia Singer , people like Bart Ehrman , and perhaps, even more to your liking people like Richard Dawkins and the late Christopher Hitchens....
N.B. The Yoruba Religion as a world religion.
As far as proselytizing goes, you are aware that the Yoruba religion has spread far beyond Yoruba-lands in mainland Africa and has migrated along with the Yoruba Diaspora to Brazil, Cuba, Trinidad & Tobago, Venezuela etc. where it has undergone much syncretism, and is now reported to be spreading like wildfire among some of the Black & Proud intelligentsia in North America and Europe., but surpisingly , not as rapidly in Nigeria and the rest of Africa where CHrsitain and Muslim missionaries are competing for the ssalvation of your soul
I don't know if the Noahide Movement is actively mission-izing but they also promote that as the Almighty's basic universal requirement for all mankind
More African Diaspora Music : Muddy Waters - I Can't Be Satisfied
--The latest news avalable about the collapsed 21-story Ikoyi skyscraper in Lagos is that 45 dead bodies and 15 injured persons have been excavated from the rubbles. My question, therefore, is what has Qur'anic and Biblical claptraps, gobbledygook, hocus-pocus and obscurantism to do with the collapse of the 21-story Ikoyi building? As we are mentally Arabi-sized, Islamized, Colonised, Europeanised and Christianised, we remain stationary as nuts in the wheel of the world while the rest of the world rolls on. We allow religious imperialism to disrobe us mentally and cincture our thinking process. Hence, our shackled minds marinate in poisoned pool of peonage and obsequiousness to Judaism and Islamism. Our adoption and practice of Judaism and Islamism, esentially, is an admission of our cultural inferiority resulting in our inability to discover our self-worth. Charging from the mind cocooned in Islamic putridity, and Judaist odiousness, we glorify in religious imperialism that has victimised us mentally and physically for long.
For what I know the expression, Surah al Baqarah, does not belong to any of the Nigerian languages, therefore I am not compelled to know its contents and, much less, fulfilling it. However, let's separate the chaff from the wheat and by extension separate religion from the collapsed Ikoyi skyscraper. The Chairman of the Nigerian Institute of Structural Engineers, Mr. Kehinde Osifala on Tuesday, 16 November 2021 told the Press, "The building that collapsed was initially designed for just six floors, and later to 12 floors, before this was further changed to 15 floors. It could not yet be established the adequacy of any property designed and documented further revision to eventual (and tragically, final) 21 floors that was being implemented and which collapsed." https://guardian.ng/news/nigerian-engineers-say-design-of-collapsed-lagos-highrise-altered/It may be that we are witnessing in advance what was declared in Matthew 7 : 21-23 ; Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. On that day many will say to me ' Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name? And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from, you workers of lawlessness.'
From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Cornelius Hamelberg <corneliushamelberg@gmail.com>
Sent: 17 November 2021 00:54
To: USA Africa Dialogue Series <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [External] USA Africa Dialogue Series - Ikoyi Tragedy and Casual Bigotry Against Yoruba MuslimsIf we at all care, then we have to pray for Baba Kadiri., since we take what he says, seriously. We have to presume - to pray on his behalf, for his salvation. It's alright with him boasting that he "read Qur'an from Surah Al-Fatiha to Surah Al-Naas" when he was a little boy, which does not mean that he understood what he read or that what he read or recited ever descended below his throat level down to his heart, which is geographically situated somewhere in the middle of his chest...
The problem with Baba Kadiri is that he does not fulfil the fundamentals required of a believer, as outlined in the first five ayahs of Surah al Baqarah :
2 This is the Scripture whereof there is no doubt, a guidance unto those who ward off (evil).
3 Who believe in the Unseen, and establish worship, and spend of that We have bestowed upon them;
4 And who believe in that which is revealed unto thee (Muhammad) and that which was revealed before thee, and are certain of the Hereafter.
5 These depend on guidance from their Lord. These are the successful.
The Quran continues
6 As for the Disbelievers, Whether thou warn them or thou warn them not it is all one for them; they believe not.
7 Allah hath sealed their hearing and their hearts, and on their eyes there is a covering. Theirs will be an awful doom.
Baba Kadiri, so, there you have it and your disingenuous argument also reeks of more than just a little hypocrisy when you arrogantly write, as if dictating to our Creator, " Moreover, if God had any message to the Black race, the just God would have sent it to us in any of the languages with which he created us and not in Hebrew or Arabic. "
Such arrogance does not absolve you of the personal responsibility of having read in Arabic or the translations into Yoruba, English, Swedish, and presumably understood the basic message of the Quran and the New Testament : Believe – or perish!
As to the question of Brer Kperogi 's miracle of making a mountain out of a molehill, and his self-satisfied delusions of grandeur, typically glowing with pride and beating his chest as he tells us that "First, it's flattering that such a large number of people found what I wrote important enough to deserve responding with such overpoweringly concentrated emotions", you must admit that even for a so-called Nigerian language buff who is sometimes reluctant when it comes to calling a spade a spade, there must be some common areas of agreement, without which the very definition of precision would lose all meaning. We agree that a no-nonsense man like Kperogi knows that two plus two = four. On the other hand, it could be that in his poetic imagination, Sign on the porch says "Three's A Crowd"
Now, if the sign says, "Three 's a crowd" then you must surmise that by Kperogi's Gradgrindian standards, seven people turning up for his lecture is by his conservative estimate a mammoth crowd. , a veritable multitude, like the one that Jesus fed (5,000 people) when he multiplied five loaves of bread and two fish, after which there were twelve baskets full of crumbs that were leftover.
With regard to your beliefs/ disbelief, consider what you may deem hyperbolic, this other perspective: According to the Bible, "a thousand years is like a day to the Lord !" Do you want to argue about that too?
Lastly, and more seriously, we should be looking forward to Kperogi's views on the LGBT phenomenon in Nigeria, whether or not such persons – including the transgender category do not fall into his broader definitions of "the underdog, the marginalised, the alienated, and the ostracised" that he says he always stands up for.
I was thinking about the marginalised, the alienated and the ostracised homosexuals and other human beings in Nigeria after reading an article by Rafaela Stålbalk Klose about Jude Chukwuma Dibia ( the author of "Walking With Shadows") in the Ordfront Magasin / Specialutgåva/2020.
Dibia is now in exile in Southern Sweden, in Malmö....
Also looking forward to Dear Dr Wahab Ademola Azeez's engagement with your submission...
Madilu System - Mélancolique
--On Tuesday, 16 November 2021 at 08:24:25 UTC+1 ogunlakaiye wrote:
Dear Dr Wahab Ademola Azeez,
Kindly permit me to state some obvious facts. It is not by happenstance that the word Qur'an contains five alphabets just as the word Bible; and just as the word Mosque contains six alphabets so is the word Church; Qur'an is the holly book of the Muslims just as Bible is the holly book of the Christians. Both Christianity and Islam originated in the Middle East and, mostly, they share the same prophets. The Christian Moses is the same person in Islam called Musa; the Christian Jesus is the same person in Islam called Isa; the Christian Joseph is the same person in Islam called Yusef; the Christian Mary is the same person in Islam called Miriam; the Christian Abraham is the same person in Islam called Ibrahim; and the Christian Isaac is the same person in Islam called Ishaq, etc. Originally, the Bible was written in Hebrew while the Qur'an was written in Arabic. Both Bible and Qur'an consent to slavery. Historically, the enslavement of Black people in Africa by the Arabs commenced long before Europeans adopted Christianity who premised their enslavement of Black Africans on the dictation of the Bible. Not only were Black Africans captured and carted away by Europeans to work as plantation slaves in America, but the continent Africa was sliced into bits by Europeans as their colonies and thereby converted Africans and their territorial resources to the properties of Europeans. My dear Dr Azeez, I am grateful to my parents who not only sent me to the Christian school where I was compelled to read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation but also sent me to the school of Qur'an in the evenings where I read Qur'an from Surah Al-Fatiha to Surah Al-Naas. Now, I am a free thinker who believes that the creator of Blackman never intended us to be slaves to anybody. Moreover, if God had any message to the Black race, the just God would have sent it to us in any of the languages with which he created us and not in Hebrew or Arabic. I don't object to the freedom of anyone to adopt Christianity or Islam as a religion, what I object to is the use of religion as hammer to crack each other's head.
I have written the above, because I am impressed by the last paragraph of your post where you claimed to have fought discriminatory tendencies to a standstill and eventually won. You wrote, "One was able to do that because one believes in justice, fairness, merit and competence irrespective of faith the other belongs to. We need more ideological orientation, education and clarity to be able to understand better, the issues at play." I am not sure if I understand you correctly that, as a Yoruba man, you have experienced discrimination from fellow Yoruba because of your belief in Islamic faith. Granting that it was true that you had experienced such discriminations, I doubt if your discriminators had meant that you were an inferior Yoruba person because of your faith as Farooq would like his readers to believe. Religion is something of the mind which cannot be imposed on any person. Since religion is not a science but a belief, one does not need empirical evidence to believe in it. No religion, based on belief, is superior to others and no religion is inferior to others.
For all that we know, the secularity of Nigeria is guaranteed in Section 10 of the 1999 Constitution where it is stipulated that neither the Federal nor State Governments shall adopt a religion. Thus, every Nigerian is free to practise whatever religion one wants and as Farooq himself partially noted, marriage between Muslims and Christians, in which each party within a marriage is free to practise his or her religion unhindered, is very common in Yoruba land. On national stage, Section 10 of the Nigerian Constitution has been breached many folds through warped Islamic and Christian type of religions we practise in Nigeria. In every ten metres of any Nigerian street, one will find a church and a mosque but the behaviour of Nigerians in general is diametrically opposed to Godliness. The Nigerian political leaders, government officials in the Ministries, Departments and Agencies, and most of the intellectuals, with no exemption, are all satanic. For those who will accuse me of generalising, they only need to reflect on how the intellectual class always stoke ethno-religious antagonism among Nigerians.
In a country of one people and one destiny, which part of the country the President and public officials come from should be of no importance. What should be important is the competence of the officials and their ability to perform and deliver goodies from their offices to the citizens. Contrary to your belief in justice, fairness, merit and competence, what obtains mostly in Nigeria is ethno-religious affiliations whereby people occupy official positions that are far beyond their merits and competences. In many cases, merits and competences are completely lacking. It is an established fact that those who have been stealing appropriated funds for socio-economic and industrial development of Nigeria are either Christians or Muslims. In the 21st century, Nigerians still believe that pastors and imams can lay hands on the head of house builders and bless them in the name of God/Allah, Jesus/Mohammed, to enable them build a 21-story skyscraper with mixture of ashes and sand. Although the collapse of Ikoyi's skyscraper is tragic, the most tragic is the metaphysical belief, as it is being indirectly proffered, that the collapse of the edifice had to do with the discrimination against the employment of Muslims by the Christian Managing Director of the building company.
Oyindamola Zainab Sanni is a 26-year-old graduate who was initially posted to Maiduguri, Borno State, to do her National Youth Service Corps (NYSC). The fear of Boko Haram forced her to seek redeployment to Lagos, where she was posted to Fourscore Homes Limited, the builder of the Ikoyi 21-story building where she died on November 1, 2021. The Nigerian Sunday Punch of 14 November 2021, disclosed among others that a 17-year-old Toheeb Yusuf, a labourer, died under the rubbles of the collapsed Ikoyi building. Toheeb Yusuf as well as Oyindamola Zainab Sanni are Yoruba Muslims. The Punch disclosed further that four employed Hausa men were working at the site when the building collapsed. Their names were given as Nafiu Dafiru, Atiku Bala, Mikailu Hassan and Aminu Yale. While injured Nafiu Dafiru and Atiku Bala were rescued, the bodies of Mikailu Hassan and Aminu Yale, 20 and 23-year-old respectively, are yet to be recovered. Thus, the employee at the building site contained not only Yoruba Muslims but even Hausa Muslims. That put lie on the insinuation that the Christian pastor, the project manager discriminated against Muslims by refusing to employ anyone of Islamic faith. His alleged refusal to employ Adebowale Sikiru which has been put forward as a marker for how the Yoruba in general treat their fellow Yoruba Muslims as inferior human beings because of their Islamic faith, is totally false. As I have said elsewhere, the collapse of the 21-story Ikoyi skyscraper should not under any circumstance give rise to ethno-religious discussions but rather the competence of its building engineers as well as the quality of materials used.S. Kadiri
From: usaafric...@googlegroups.com <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Ademola Azeez <ademolaa...@gmail.com>
Sent: 09 November 2021 03:59
To: dialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [External] USA Africa Dialogue Series - Ikoyi Tragedy and Casual Bigotry Against Yoruba MuslimsIt's very interesting reading Segun Ogungbemi's response on the points raised by Farooq. Every believer of a particular faith would always promote or protect the interest of his faith. It is true that most public institutions and private businesses are headed by Christian adherents in the Yoruba land of South West and you should expect what Farooq exposed in his write up. What Segun Ogungbemi simply did was to corroborate those points raised by Farooq.
The Amotekun example raised here by Segun Ogungbemi would be difficult to be implemented especially for members of a particular faith to discriminate against those who believe in another faith on the simple reason of 'belief in brotherhood". What brotherhood would make you to subject your family or race to extinction? If Amotekun projects are being funded by public funds, what makes the adherents of a particular faith think that they have exclusive rights to isolate the others who are not of their faith. Amotekun project is not for, and can never be for a particular faith. And those who operate on the thinking exposed by Farooq should change that dangerous mindset because it would consume them ultimately.
On the question Ogungbemi wants us to ask Farooq that "how many Muslims who hold loyalty to their brotherhood are employed by the CIA, FBI etc in the United States where he lives? The leaderships of both CIA and FBI would consider merit, competence and nationalism first in doing their recruitments because it is America first and not any other primordial sentiments that include religious faith. It is here in Nigeria that we hide under religious faith to perpetuate all kinds of atrocities at the expenses of the citizens and when we are caught, we simply resort to faith. What a deceit and disaster!I believe that no reasonable and responsible person will want to subject his family or race to extermination on the sentiments of religious faith and compromise security of his people.
As a person, I will like to know what Muslims have done to the Christian institutions in Ilorin so as to subject it to critical and objective analysis before I can agree with Ogungbemi that "It is an eye opener and warning to the Yoruba anywhere in the country.
In conclusion, I will agree with Farooq on most of the issues he raised because I have personally experienced some of them even though I fought those discriminatory tendencies to a standstill and eventually won. One was able to do that because one believes in justice, fairness, merit and competence irrespective of what faith the other belongs to. We need more ideological orientation, education and clarity to be able to understand better, the issues at play.
Wahab Ademola Azeez, PhDProvost, Federal College of Education (Technical), Akoka, Lagos, Nigeria
On Mon, 8 Nov 2021, 7:59 am , <segun...@gmail.com> wrote:
I think Farooq got it wrong. He cannot use a few examples of people who claimed to be discriminated against in places of employment because of their faith as a general representation of what happen in Yorubaland.I think Farooq should have inquired thoroughly, if indeed, Mr. Femi Osibona never hired any Muslims at all in the entire business enterprise as a developer. Does Farooq know, for instance, if Ahmed Kenleku, Shola Bade Nurudeen and Waliu Lateef listed as survivors of the Ikoyi collapsed building by the Lagos State Government are not his employees?Secondly, the Amotekun security outfit in the Southwest cannot, in all honesty, employ those whose beliefs of brotherhood will undermine the strategic methods of security protection for their States.Ask Farooq, how many Muslims who hold loyalty to their brotherhood are employed by the CIA, FBI etc in the United States where he lives?I believe no reasonable and responsible leader will saddle people whose faith and loyalty will betray security of his people.Is Farooq aware what Muslims have done to the Christian institutions in Ilorin? It is an eye opener and warning to the Yoruba anywhere in the country.Segun Ogungbemi.
Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 7, 2021, at 3:19 AM, Assensoh, Akwasi B. <aass...@indiana.edu> wrote:
Dear Brother Farooq:
Thank you very much for the inspiring Dr. Ibrahim Waziri story; please, note that some of us from
other African countries used your 2009 educational (OND/HND) column to counsel relatives and
others. Thanks to Brother 'Tony Akinola, of blessed memory, we came across your column, which
we shared widely. Today -- several of them with OND/HND diplomas -- have travelled to Canada
and USA, respectively, to earn their terminal academic and professional degrees.
While lauding Bauchi-born Dr. Waziri, I also applaud your poignant columns and blog. Above all,
many of us urge you to keep up the great selfless work, just as Guiding Angels always do for others!
Sincerely,
A.B. Assensoh.
----------
Rev. A.B. Assensoh, LL.M., PH.D.,
Co-Book Review Editor, African & Asian Studies Journal,
Professor Emeritus (Indiana University),
Courtesy Professor Emeritus (University of Oregon),
Department of History,
McKenzie Hall (2nd Floor), University of Oregon,
Eugene, OR 97403, U.S.A.
Telephone: (541) 953-7710
Fax: (541) 346-6576
From: usaafric...@googlegroups.com <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Farooq A. Kperogi <farooq...@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, November 5, 2021 9:27 PM
To: USAAfrica Dialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [External] USA Africa Dialogue Series - Ikoyi Tragedy and Casual Bigotry Against Yoruba MuslimsThis message was sent from a non-IU address. Please exercise caution when clicking links or opening attachments from external sources.
Today's Saturday Tribune/Peoples Gazette column uses the story of one Adebowale Sikiru whom Foursquare MD Femi Osibona (who sadly died in the collapsed building he managed) denied a job only because of his Muslim faith to call attention to the time-honored casual bigotry and inferiorization of Yoruba Muslims by their own people in their own land. I'm ready and loaded for bear for the predictable attacks from people who'd rather sweep this uncomfortable truth under the drug and attack the messenger.
Personal website: www.farooqkperogi.comTwitter: @farooqkperogiNigeria's Digital Diaspora: Citizen Media, Democracy, and Participation
"The nice thing about pessimism is that you are constantly being either proven right or pleasantly surprised." G. F. Will
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