what is colonialist rhetoric? i use the term discourse, a la said. no goal posts here: the europeans simply imputed higher value to their lives, cultures, societies. by reading "complex" "written" "technologically advanced" "socially larger structures" as superior, you wind up accepting their values.
nothing sneaky about arguing that when achebe writes back against joyce cary and graham greene and the rest of them, he is reversing the perspective
i know you set high value on egypt, and the afrocentrist schools for which it is the foundation of civilization. but i don't buy the whole baggage that goes with the term "civilization," and damas destroys it, as did cesaire. senghor waffled. but someone would have to explain why the world wars and destruction and colonialism itself came about if higher civilization were equated with all those values attributed to the west.
the standpoint that assumes these values must be challenged. i think i am not original: johannes fabian already argued this in Time and Its Other. i want to challenge the othering implicit in the use of "civilization" and its "missions."
as for trash, that is exactly my point. trash is only "out of place," as mary douglas defined it, if you are presuming a standpoint of value to begin with. i want to shake up those systems of value. you want to belabor my fault in seeing me disvalue those things you find to be of high value; i want to ask what assumptions are being made about the systems that are conferring value. not just where they come from, but what are the consequences of setting high art over low art, etc.
the answer is not so hard to see: hegel argued for a dialectic that always moved us, moved civilization, to higher and higher stages. but those stages were built on assumptions of value we need to deconstruct, the very work derrida set out to do.
the poem by damas does it beautifully, long before derrida followed in that direction.
ken
kenneth harrow
professor emeritus
dept of english
michigan state university
517 803-8839
harrow@msu.edu
From: Emeagwali, Gloria (History) <emeagwali@ccsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2022 5:53 PM
To: Harrow, Kenneth <harrow@msu.edu>; usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - pretty damning report
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2022 5:53 PM
To: Harrow, Kenneth <harrow@msu.edu>; usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - pretty damning report
Ken.
This is a cunning way to shift the goal post, and
an astute way to intimidate and/ or silence African
historians , intentionally or not. They
would presumably be too nervous to discuss
Africa's history from any one standpoint.
Out of the window and into the trash heap
would go Nubia, Egypt, the Aksumite empire,
Ghana,Mali and Songhai etc. All of a sudden
they would be too big to study - and as for
writing systems, well we have to now deny their
existence.
This is convoluted colonialist rhetoric.
Professor Gloria Emeagwali
Prof. of History/African Studies, CCSU
africahistory.net; vimeo.com/ gloriaemeagwali
Recipient of the 2014 Distinguished Research
Excellence Award, Univ. of Texas at Austin;
2019 Distinguished Africanist Award
New York African Studies Association
Prof. of History/African Studies, CCSU
africahistory.net; vimeo.com/ gloriaemeagwali
Recipient of the 2014 Distinguished Research
Excellence Award, Univ. of Texas at Austin;
2019 Distinguished Africanist Award
New York African Studies Association
From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Harrow, Kenneth <harrow@msu.edu>
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2022 5:09 PM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - pretty damning report
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2022 5:09 PM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - pretty damning report
Please be cautious: **External Email**
as i said below, i believe these arguments about "civilization" assume colonial discursive values. assume eurocentric notions of "civilization."
i had written:"literacy" like "civilization" is a decidedly colonial discursive term used to validate european conquest over africa and the rest of the world, asia, latin america. not just missionary logics, but "la mission civilisatrice," the slogan of the france equivalent to "the white man's burden," or kulturarbeit, or you name it.
that's ultimately why i resist the turn to egypt as the foundation of civilization, as if "civilization" could be used apart from the colonial usages. there is no higher value to be attached to higher walls or buildings.
that was the point of Things Fall Apart. an entire society with human, decent, meaningful lives and values, did not require complex written text, or monotheistic beliefs, or taller buildings to validate social order or human interactions. not kingdoms or empires. not vast social edifices, like nations. achebe was a humanist to the end, a proselytizer for decency, and thus dedicated his work to a decent social order, be it before colonialism, during, or after."
that's why the argument about "ancient african civilizations" is lost from the outset: it makes assumptions about "civilization" as more advanced than, say, "acephalous" societies. it always reduces itself to argue, "we are as good as you," or "we are better than you," instead of, lets see it from another perspective.
i think it would behoove those arguing in favor of the true, original, authentic, real, first "civilization" to read damas's poem on the topic:
(don't miss the last line)
Sale
for Aimé Césaire
I feel laughable
in their shoes
in their dinner jacket
in their stiff shirt
in their detachable collar
in their monocle
in their bowler hat
I feel laughable
with my toes that were not born
to sweat from morning until night's disrobing
with swaddling that weakens my limbs
and robs from my body its loincloth beauty
I feel laughable
with my neck a factory chimney
with headaches that stop
each time I greet someone
I feel laughable
in their salons
in their manners
in their low bows
in their enormous need for monkeyshines
I feel laughable
with all that conversation
until you are served in mid-afternoon
a bit of hot water
and some rheumy pastries.
I feel laughable
with the theories they shape
to the taste of their needs
of their passions
of their instincts wide open at night
like a doormat
I feel laughable
an accomplice among them
a pander among them
among those bloody hands red and frightening
with the blood of their ci-vi-la-za-tion
kenfor Aimé Césaire
I feel laughable
in their shoes
in their dinner jacket
in their stiff shirt
in their detachable collar
in their monocle
in their bowler hat
I feel laughable
with my toes that were not born
to sweat from morning until night's disrobing
with swaddling that weakens my limbs
and robs from my body its loincloth beauty
I feel laughable
with my neck a factory chimney
with headaches that stop
each time I greet someone
I feel laughable
in their salons
in their manners
in their low bows
in their enormous need for monkeyshines
I feel laughable
with all that conversation
until you are served in mid-afternoon
a bit of hot water
and some rheumy pastries.
I feel laughable
with the theories they shape
to the taste of their needs
of their passions
of their instincts wide open at night
like a doormat
I feel laughable
an accomplice among them
a pander among them
among those bloody hands red and frightening
with the blood of their ci-vi-la-za-tion
kenneth harrow
professor emeritus
dept of english
michigan state university
harrow@msu.edu
From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Ibukunolu A Babajide <ibk2005@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2022 8:43 AM
To: USAAfricaDialogue <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - pretty damning report
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2022 8:43 AM
To: USAAfricaDialogue <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - pretty damning report
My friend Osamede Edosomwan shared this with me and I want to share it with the Forum.
Cheers.
IBK
You cannot understand ancient African civilizations without understanding the ancient civilization of Kush which was completely and totally an African civilization. The Egyptians adapted and used Kushite political, military, and technological systems in the development of their civilization. In other words, before Egypt there was Kush. The kingdom of Kush has the oldest monarchy in history which subsequently influenced the development of the Egyptian Pharaonic system. Without the Pharaonic system of government, there will be no pyramids and without the kingdom of Kush there will be no pharaonic system of government in ancient Egypt. These are historical facts.
The Egyptians adapted and adopted Kushite military techniques and use of iron weaponry, in the development of their civilization. The Egyptians had scant natural resources and all of its iron ore, ivory and timber depended on its trade relations with Kush. The Egyptians in ancient times referred to Kush as the land of the bold and the 25th dynasty in Egypt was established after a Kushite conquest of Egypt. There were times when the Egyptians also invaded, conquered, and established dynasties in Kush. Both civilizations influenced each other, but the Egyptian monarchical system and military technology, like archery was adapted from Kush. These are historical facts. By the way, what were the Germanic tribes doing when the Greeks were establishing political, philosophical, architectural and scientific systems in ancient Greece? They were living in earth mounds and thatch houses. Yet you don't hear anyone saying that Germanic tribes are not Europeans like the Greeks.
Anyone espousing the idea that there were no ancient African civilizations is either grossly misinformed or approaching the subject matter with the ethnocentric bias that was instituted during the era of the triangular slave trade to justify the mass enslavement of Africans.
OUE
_________________________
Ibukunolu Alao Babajide (IBK)
AN ENGLISH NURSERY RHYME
The law locks up the man or woman
Who steals the goose from off the common
But leaves the greater villain loose
Who steals the common from off the goose
The law demands that we atone
When we take things that we do not own
But leaves the lords and ladies fine
Who take things that are yours and mine
The poor and wretched don't escape
If they conspire the law to break
This must be so but they endure
Those who conspire to make the law
The law locks up the man or woman
Who steals the goose from off the common
And geese will still a common lack
Till they go and steal it back
- Anonymous (circa 1764)
On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 at 21:36, Salimonu Kadiri <ogunlakaiye@hotmail.com> wrote:
--Any education that cannot generate and distribute electric power to Nigerians is useless; any education that cannot drill crude oil and refine it for the domestic consumption of Nigerians is useless; any education that cannot mine Nigeria's iron ore and work it into steels at Ajaokuta is useless; any education that cannot liberate Nigerian pastoralists from nomadic grazing of cattle in the 21st century, through ranching, is a useless education; and any education that cannot pump and supply Nigerians with potable water is useless, etc. All Minitries, Departments and Agencies (MDAs) created and financed to provide necessary commodities that will make life comfortable for Nigerians are manned by educated Nigerians but with negative results.
It is a self-humiliating assertion to say that we were nothing before colonialism and would have been nothing without colonialism. Dogs are not educated because they are trained to perform certain functions for their owners (controllers). Nigerians are not educated because they speak and write good English in the self-managed economic enslavement. Western education was not designed to serve the interest of Nigerians (Africans) but the interest of the colonialists, covert or overt. Niyi Osundare's views on ignorant educated Nigerians, illustrate what Nigeria has achieved economically and industrially. Follow the link below.S. Kadiri
From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Cornelius Hamelberg <corneliushamelberg@gmail.com>
Sent: 13 January 2022 01:21
To: USA Africa Dialogue Series <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - pretty damning reportThis opinion piece in today's Vanguard addresses one of your questions:
--On Wednesday, 12 January 2022 at 05:24:24 UTC+1 ovdepoju wrote:
If Africans were not colonised, what would have been the implications for scribal literacy, which was low on the continent?
If Africans were not colonised, what would have been the implications for the unquestioned dominance of classical African religions, as opposed to the greater pluralism, the range of choices, opened up by the current co-existence of these religions and Christianity?
Without passing through the colonial experience, would we be using an international language, English and chatting on the Internet?
All contemporary Africans are shaped by colonialism, particularly poignantly so those deeply invested in the globally dominant educational system, which has its origins in Europe and has little input in its methods and understanding of reality from learning systems from other cultures.
Would any such person prefer a classical African education to the Western one? Under what circumstances, outside the forceful coercion of colonialism, would an informed choice between them or to integrate them have been possible?
Colonisation birthed the Universities of Ibadan and Makere, for example, pioneers in post-classical African scholarship, more critically oriented, more international in range of reference and communicative scope, than the earlier classical African systems of Ifa, among others.
Is the current challenge not one of synergy between these systems?
The creative possibilities represented by these developments are possible without colonisation but colonisation is the historical trajectory through which they emerged.
Ursula le Guin's The Left Hand of Darkness and Marion Zimmer Bradley's Darkover novels visualise encounters between a space faring Terran civilisation and non-technological cultures, in which the Terrans are scrupulous about not interfering in the local culture on the planets they find themselves.
Its also true, I think, that Africans were visiting Europe before colonisation.
How best could we have benefited from what Europe had to offer, without having to pass through the still reverberating agonies of colonisation?
Perhaps I need to understand the colonial experience better. While not justifying the self serving so called civilising missions of the colonisers, I think colonialism in Africa and perhaps Asia needs to be appreciated in more complex terms than that of binary good and evil.
A painful journey but one whose every segment is vital, in my view.
Abiola Irele seems to develop a similar view in ''In Praise of Alienation.'' Biodun Jeyifo correlates Irele's perspective with what he describes as Louise Althusser's concept of an epistemological break, a rupture in a society's modes of existence that enables a higher level of development, an approach to the disruptions and creativities of colonialism which seems the best way to make the most of what has happened to us.
thanks
toyin
On Tue, 11 Jan 2022 at 07:54, <segun...@gmail.com> wrote:
Ken,--Colonialism anywhere and everywhere in Africa was exploitation of human and natural resources of Africans. If this proposition is true, which l believe to be true, therefore the experience is the same.Beyond this fact Ken, colonialism is a moral evil. There is no reason to subtly justify colonialism. It does not command any moral warrant, in my opinion.Ogungbemi.
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 10, 2022, at 11:11 AM, Ibukunolu A Babajide <ibk...@gmail.com> wrote:
Ken,
You agree with Ogungbemi in principle All colonialism is physical and mental conquest. Leave it at that. The degree of evil is not the issue at stake. All carnivores kill and eat their prey. Whether they swallow them, eat them raw, or boil, cook or roast the meat, the baseline is the killing. That is the bottom line. There are many ways to skin a cat.
Cheers.
IBK
_________________________Ibukunolu Alao Babajide (IBK)
AN ENGLISH NURSERY RHYME
The law locks up the man or woman
Who steals the goose from off the common
But leaves the greater villain loose
Who steals the common from off the goose
The law demands that we atone
When we take things that we do not own
But leaves the lords and ladies fine
Who take things that are yours and mine
The poor and wretched don't escape
If they conspire the law to break
This must be so but they endure
Those who conspire to make the law
The law locks up the man or woman
Who steals the goose from off the common
And geese will still a common lack
Till they go and steal it back
- Anonymous (circa 1764)
--On Sat, 8 Jan 2022 at 07:36, Harrow, Kenneth <har...@msu.edu> wrote:
--ogungbemi,well, i suppose en principe you are right. however, not all experiences of colonialism were the same. what was the same, i believe, is that colonialism was mislabeled. it was a conquest, that rationalized itself in the late 19th century as a missionary act of bringing civilization.the work of african authors, i know, was to expose the lie.but that is different from blatantly ordering the murder of opposition political figures. i don't think a good historian would say every experience of colonialism was the same. the brutality of the belgians in the congo was pretty bad; was it worse under the french in congo brazzaville? depends on when we are talking about. same in all case: the regimes changed, the practices of some were worse than others.
in any event, this was pretty ugly. the belgians changed tactics in 1959 in rwanda, turning in favor of hutus (the hutu revolution) against their former allies, tutsis. but after independence, or even on the threshold as they were turning over power, an assassination would have been particularly repugnant.ken
kenneth harrow
professor emeritus
dept of english
michigan state university
From: usaafric...@googlegroups.com <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of segun...@gmail.com <segun...@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, January 7, 2022 10:34 AM
To: usaafric...@googlegroups.com <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - pretty damning reportKen, is there any amongst them that is not "truly ugly colonialists"? Please read, "CIA Dirty Works in Africa".Ogungbemi.--
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 7, 2022, at 5:50 AM, Harrow, Kenneth <har...@msu.edu> wrote:
if true, the belgians are revealed as truly ugly colonialists:ken
--
kenneth harrow
professor emeritus
dept of english
michigan state university
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