Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Russia in central african republic

What a pity that you think that

Africans  are totally

incapable of engaging in 

geopolitical  and cost- benefit 

analysis, whether in terms

of the US, China, France or 

Russia. Central Africa and

the Sahelian states are doing

just that right now. Ethiopia's

Abiy did that as well in 

acquiring Turkish drones that

helped to turn the war around.

Peace is being negotiated 

now.The TPLF lost. It is time 

for Ukraine and Russia to do

the same. Stop classifying

Africans as morons.

Professor Gloria Emeagwali
Prof. of History/African Studies, CCSU
africahistory.net; vimeo.com/ gloriaemeagwali
Recipient of the 2014 Distinguished Research
Excellence Award, Univ. of Texas at Austin;
2019 Distinguished Africanist Award
New York African Studies Association

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From: Harrow, Kenneth <harrow@msu.edu>
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2022 8:13 PM
To: Emeagwali, Gloria (History) <emeagwali@ccsu.edu>; usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Russia in central african republic

 

EXTERNAL EMAIL: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click any links or open any attachments unless you trust the sender and know the content is safe.

My mind is open on the chinese. I've seen or read a batch of articles, and nothing seems to indicates definitively that africans are in a beneficial position. I'm willing to learn more. But the russians are not doing quid pro quo exchanges; they are brutal mereceneries exploiting to the hilt. I don't imagine for a second the c.a.r. Army or govt is getting anything out of this of value except staying in power by the crushing of their opponents.

As for other situations, they don't change the realities in c.a.r. 

Ken

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From: Emeagwali, Gloria (History) <emeagwali@ccsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2022 4:23:26 PM
To: Harrow, Kenneth <harrow@msu.edu>; usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Russia in central african republic

 

"instead they are simply takingover the

 most valuable minerals and timber 

assets in payment"

That is what we call counter trade, or

21st century barter.   Do you

think that the sophisticated planes

and weapons that these countries 

got was for free? Why so?

Nice to know that you recognize the

 Chinese "development projects, "

finally. I thought that you thought

that the Chinese were a bunch

of super exploiters.

Since the Russians are  your ancestors,

 as you state, they may listen to  your 

cries.

Meanwhile  here is a list

of more people and places to 

cry for:

a. Ukraine 

b. Palestinians under the fascist

    ultra  right coalition of Netanyahu 

c. Yemen

d. Eastern Congo

e.The homeless people on

the streets of America in sub 

zero temperature 

Professor Gloria Emeagwali
Prof. of History/African Studies, CCSU
africahistory.net; vimeo.com/ gloriaemeagwali
Recipient of the 2014 Distinguished Research
Excellence Award, Univ. of Texas at Austin;
2019 Distinguished Africanist Award
New York African Studies Association

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From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Harrow, Kenneth <harrow@msu.edu>
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2022 11:51 AM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Russia in central african republic

 

EXTERNAL EMAIL: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click any links or open any attachments unless you trust the sender and know the content is safe.

By all accounts this strikes me as a horrific variant of colonialism or worse, neocolonialism. The europeans colonized by conquest. And then rationalized it by saying they ended slavery, or ending fighting between the tribes, or eventually that they were bringing civilization and developing the countries.

The russians came to prop up weak govts that couldn't not put down insurgents. Just like the south african merceneries of days past. The russians, unlike the chinese, are not doing development projects in exchange for being paid off by the country's wealth, instead they are simply takingover the most valuable minerals and timber assets in payment. The europeans said, we are civilized, become like us. The russians are saying, do what we tell you or we will shoot you, and africans are treated like dirt, told they are dirt,and exploited like dirt.

The fighting before the russians has been suppressed by the whip and the gun. And the price is heavy; the congolese understand that having paid off their allies in the last big war with mines, like those given to zimbabwean generals.

If you belong to the anti-government factions in mali or burkina or the car, you now face the brutalities of the wagner group. Before, it was a weak govt propped up by french troops.

To speak of french arrogance or eurocentric this or that is off the point.

To speak of russians earlier support of liberation movements is off the point.

Youmight as well tell me the united states is a golden boy because we have a bill of right.

The truth is the russians are acting like brutal monsters, and were the same in syria and chechnia and georgia, and now in ukraine.

My ancestors came from russia. There is no excusing what putin is doing now. If i lived in the c.a.r. And could say, at least there is peace now, that might be a rationalization.

But at what price? What bothers me is the reluctance to admit theprice might be too high, especially for the future of the country.

Which is why i asked the debate be open. A frank debate. One admitting what this article by roger cohen makes really clear, the nature of the russian intervention. If your country was falling apart wouldyou say, let the foreign conquerors come at any cost, or debate it?

perhaps there is more to this, perhaps the russians aren't so bad? Hard tobelieve.

Ken

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From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Cornelius Hamelberg <corneliushamelberg@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2022 8:48:06 AM
To: USA Africa Dialogue Series <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Russia in central african republic

 

The beat goes on…

It's a good Pan-African topic that Professor Harrow is bringing to our attention.  He throws down the gauntlet. The headline is worthy of our attention:  " Russia in central african republic" - what are they doing there?  What he says they are doing there should be enough to incense any true African.

 Moses is ready; 

Gloria too, sword drawn. 

 In this instance Professor Harrow sure wouldn't mind if Jihad was on the agenda  - like the stinger missiles that were being supplied to the Mujahideen who fought against the Soviets in Afghanistan - My Algerian friend Hassan lost an arm in that war.

But, how do we respond to the headline " Russia in central african republic"?

 Israel get out of Palestine? 

Uncle Sam, get the hell out of Vietnam? 

More talk shop. Imminently forthcoming:  Stimulating intellectual discussions highlighting subtle ideological differences over what democracy of the people by the people for the people could mean for various states in Africa when it comes to holding the intruders ( all of them miscreants) accountable. Theme song: Crazy BaldheadUnderstandably, being American hence the monomaniacally moral/ immoral propaganda war on behalf of  beloved Uncle Sam,  therefore the endless & relentless, albeit merely visceral and vicarious aggression towards Holy Russia  - the Wagner group in Africa etc 

When not gripping about China in Africa, it's gripping about Russia in Ukraine 

For balance : 

https://www.rt.com/

Noam Chomsky and his latest on Russia and Ukraine

Chris Hedges and his latest: The Democrats Are Now the War Party

On Sunday, 25 December 2022 at 06:31:35 UTC+1 Kenneth Harrow wrote:

I would love to hear people's views on this. 

The russians are presented here as simply ushering in a new world order based on guns. It is as ugly as story as any i have read since the worst of colonialism. Since this is 2022, it is worse. Moses has stated we can't go back to a simple western democracy vs autocracy model. I think this is worse than simple autocracy since the russians are not answerable to the people and are there to take central african resources by the gun

I called colonialism a conquest. This is not much different, except it rationalizes itself by saying things were worse without the russians.

In the long run this is probably an ugly picture of this corner of africa as imaginable.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/24/world/africa/central-african-republic-russia-wagner.html

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