Sent: Monday, March 27, 2023 9:04:55 AM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Ethnic Politics in Nigeria: The Self Destructiveness of APC Anti-Igbo Strategy in Lagos State as Led by Femi Fani-Kayode
On the Side of Yorubas
The recurrent demonization of Igbos must stop. Threats against Igbos occurring in recurrent election cycles must cease. Such actions as the Oba of Lagos threatening to drown Igbos in the Lagoon if they did not vote his then governorship candidate Ambode must stop.
Bayo Onanuga, spokesman of the President elect Bola Tinubu, recently describing Igbos as a threat to Yorubas in Lagos, NURTW leader threatening Igbos who do not want to vote APC and APC politician Femi Fani-Kayode and others highlighting threats to destroy Igbo businesses in Lagos must stop.
Destruction of Igbo properties and business interests, such as the recent killing of a supposed security man and the burning of the Akere Motor Parts and Allied Dealers Market must cease.
Intimidation of Igbo voters, reported in 2019 and even more widespread in 2023, as reported in various mainstream and social media, must stop.
Trying to demonize Igbos by linking them with IPOB or making Igbo relations anathema for a Lagos politician, as was done to Lagos gubernatorial elections candidate Rhodes-Vivour must stop.
Lagos is in Yorubaland but is Nigeria's most dynamic melting pot, Nigeria's best chance of moving towards First World status. That status requires multi-ethnic collaboration.
For Yorubas and Igbos
The claim that Igbos see Lagos as no man's land in terms of belonging to no one should be put to rest, as various Igbos and Igbo groups have strongly disavowed it and perhaps the only readily verifiable record of that statement comes from the esteemed Yoruba governor of Lagos, Lateef Jakande, in his 1979 inaugural address.
For Igbos
Various reasonable critiques of Igbos as going outside their legitimate rights should be looked into. Igbos have every right to vote and be voted for in Lagos according to their own wills.
Reasonable claims of ethnic triumphalism, however, need to be addressed. I was struck by some of the responses justifying the claim that the constitution of Alaba International Market limits chairmanship and exco membership of the market to people from some Igbo states, excluding those from other Igbo states and other parts of Nigeria.
I dont know if its true, but I am disturbed by some commentators justifying such a policy on the grounds of the numerical presence of traders from those states in that market.
Oga Kadiri,
The notion that ''Peter Obi supporters chanted 'Lagos is no man's land and waiving IPOB flag' after INEC had declared him winner of the Presidential election in Lagos'' is too ludicrous to be worthy of spending much time on except to remark on the fantastic gullibility of those people who have swallowed such awesome improbabilities of APC propaganda.
What was the fate of such foolish people as those reportedly waving the IPOB in Lagos? Where was such a sensational act reported?
A good no of LP supporters are not Igbos. Many, I expect are Yoruba, along with other ethnic groups. Can a majority Igbo vote have handed Lagos to LP in the Presidential elections?
Also try and educate yourself about IPOB, which has no interest in Nigeria.
With all your self declared intelligence, you fell for an absurdity trying to equate LP with IPOB, and LP with Igbos as if most Igbos are pro-IPOB, while in fact the people who have challenged IPOB most trenchantly are Igbos, who are questioning IPOB's strategy of non-engagement in Nigerian politics, are not impressed by Kanu, and wonder if IPOB is realistic in its El-Dorado vision of Biafra, as they see it.
As for Fani-Kayode, for years one of the most trenchant critics of APC, now absorbed into that party to use his oratory in the lowest forms of vile speech, you may see his Twitter page , showing you his utterances challenged by even the Deputy British High Commisioner, wondering why his party does not distance itself from him, not realizing he is in accord with his party, another issue you can Google.
thanks
toyin
On Sun, 26 Mar 2023 at 23:03, ogunlakaiye <ogunlakaiye@hotmail.com> wrote:
Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju,Firstly, I want you to understand that I am not a fan of Femi Fani-Kayode, politically speaking. However, that does not mean that everything he does is bad. You asked me to provide evidence that Peter Obi supporters chanted 'Lagos is no man's land and waiving IPOB flag' after INEC had declared him winner of the Presidential election in Lagos. The root cause of my submission is your claim that Femi Fani-Kayode was leading Anti-Igbo Strategy in Lagos. You wrote, "Igbos live in Lagos legitimately and earn their living legally as Nigerians. Trying to demonize them as the bigot and political prostitute Femi Fani-Kayode is doing is an invitation to war. The madman should be stopped by his party APC in the interest of all. Trying to destroy the economic strongholds associated with Igbos in Lagos, such as computer village, as FFK and others like him are projecting, is one of the most foolish things anyone can do, trying to destroy the central and perhaps only concentration of information technology and computing expertise in Nigeria in the name of ethnic supremacy." Where and when did Femi Fani-Kayode or any other person say that the Igbos live in Lagos illegitimately and earn their living illegally? What has Femi Fani-Kayode done that constituted trying to demonize the Igbos? What is your evidence that Femi Fani-Kayode is a bigot and a political prostitute in relation to the Igbos in Lagos? What is your evidence that Femi Fani-Kayode is a mad man as asserted by you? On what evidence do you base your insinuation that FFK is trying to destroy the economic strongholds associated with Igbos in Lagos? After you might have answered the afore-stated questions, I will lead you to the source of recent chants of Lagos is no man's land.
--On Sunday, March 26, 2023 at 6:36:16 PM UTC+2 Oluwatoyin Adepoju wrote:
Jimoh,
Please allow me to help make this more comprehensive:
I see you did not add ""no Nigerian newspaperreported looting of Igbo properties in Lagos.
No national or international media reported attacks on Igbos in Lagos"
Would you like those items to be added to your objections so the scope of those objections may be clearer?
With reference to media, would you like to clarify if you are referring to both social.media and mainstream media or one of the two, and if so, which?
Thanks
Toyin
On Sun, 26 Mar 2023, 5:21 pm Oluwatoyin Adepoju, <ovde...@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks, Jimoh.
I see you did not add ""no Nigerian newspaperreported looting of Igbo properties in Lagos".
Would you like to add that so as to make your summation comprehensive, to help exxamination of your claims?
Thanks
Toyin
On Sun, 26 Mar 2023, 12:51 pm Jimoh Oriyomi, <oriyom...@gmail.com> wrote:
2023 elections was characterised by violence across different states of the federation. Reported cases of killings of any particular ethnic group in Lagos is blatantly false. No single Nigeria newspaper reported a targeted killing of any group, No single international media reported looting of Igbo properties in Lagos. Driving this kind of narrative without any verifiable evidence is a disservice to the nation in general and to indegenous people of Lagos state in particular.
On Sunday, 26 March 2023, Oluwatoyin Adepoju <ovde...@gmail.com> wrote:
''We are all victims of social media propaganda. Who killed who?, where, identity of the victims, any pictorial evidence of properties destroyed? known addresses of any victim's relatives. Can anybody post pictorial evidence of properties destroyed? ''
Jimoh Oriyomi
Attacks on Igbos by APC thugs were reported on mainstream media, social media and international media, complemented by pictures and victims' video reports.
With such a scope of coverage, is it not more realistic to do one's own investigations instead of urging others to do it for one?
If after such an investigation, one cannot verify the claims, one can then present one's findings.
thanks
toyin
--On Sun, 26 Mar 2023 at 08:23, Jimoh Oriyomi <oriyom...@gmail.com> wrote:
We are all victims of social media propaganda. Who killed who?, where, identity of the victims, any pictorial evidence of properties destroyed? known addresses of any victim's relatives. Can anybody post pictorial evidence of properties destroyed?
On Sunday, 26 March 2023, Cornelius Hamelberg <cornelius...@gmail.com> wrote:
--
I'm not that daft. I'm more sceptical than you and furthermore, I don't have a dog in your fight so there's no reason for you to jump to insane conclusions or start talking about " image of a "person on the top of First Bank building" convinced you ( me) of "news that has been flying around for some time now" .
Sierra Leone, Ghana, South Africa, and Nigeria, I also have my contacts you know. On Day One - i.e. a few moments after it was announced that Obi had won I was told ( oral transmission) that your people were celebrating Obi's victory running around waving the IPOB flag all over Lagos, and I thought that it was amusing. To me, as amusing as when some time ago my friend Ted Belman ( a friend from long ago) was crying that the Palestinians had hacked ISRAPUNDIT and raised the Palestinian flag over it — or some such ridiculous thing.
It was ditto when I signed off " Cornelius Adebayo", Anunoby thought I was a militant Oduduwa advocate.
I was trained to have a keen ear not so much for what's being said but for the little or much that is not said ( the liar always wants to convince you/ me that he's telling the truth …
Interesting times: https://www.democracynow.org/shows
I wish you the best of luck in nipping this tribal conflict in the bud, in cooling down tensions and not exacerbating matters so that they get completely out of control
No more tittle-tattle, please. I'm not here to teach, I've got quite a bit to unlearn
On Sunday, 26 March 2023 at 01:03:04 UTC+1 Obinna . wrote:
LOL, just unbelievable.. Pushing this narrative must be really really important. This is an old playbook ==> when evidence of a claim cannot be found anywhere, share an obviously fake image just to continue forcing a narrative....
Speaks volumes if one random and very clearly photoshopped image of a "person on the top of First Bank building" convinced you of "news that has been flying around for some time now"
I see that you ensured that you included "... if indeed the photo is not doctored with the flag imposed on it." to leave an out - very smart.
Lol, nice try.
From: usaafric...@googlegroups.com <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Cornelius Hamelberg <cornelius...@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2023 2:35 PM
To: USA Africa Dialogue Series <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Ethnic Politics in Nigeria: The Self Destructiveness of APC Anti-Igbo Strategy in Lagos State as Led by Femi Fani-KayodeOluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju,
This news has been flying around for some time now., and I heard about it on day one. In my view, it's all symbolic. The flag is symbolic, and Obi's victory in Yoruba Man's Land is symbolic, just as the Biafran Flag is also symbolic - that's what flags are; symbols. So any talk about any of these symbols doesn't have to produce a concrete representational symbol such as the flag or crown for that line of poetry to be true, as you can well gather from a statement such as that someone disgraced or dishonoured the crown or the flag cannot be understood to be only true if you can produce a photo of the miscreant actually defecating or urinating on aforementioned crown or flag
If it's photos that you want as documentary evidence or " proof" then you need to search no further, here's one. The Last time I checked there was this photo of the IPOB flag fluttering over a prominent building in Lagos, although they or someone must have taken that flag down by now., if indeed the photo is not doctored with the flag imposed on it.
"IPOB flag raised over Lagos": More hysteria
It's time we put this hysteria away for good, unless like Goebbels they ( whoever they are) want to practice The Big Lie , that "If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it"
On Saturday, 25 March 2023 at 02:44:07 UTC+1 Oluwatoyin Adepoju wrote:
Very funny:
''When I first heard this news - by oral transmission, I first thought that it was just a manner of speaking and only on second thoughts that it was possible that after Obi's defeat of Tinubu in Lagos some foolhardy but nonetheless elated Igbos - not necessarily hungry for martyrdom or for the 72 Virgins of Paradise, could have nevertheless been brave enough to be formally waving Nnamdi Kanu's flag in their newly conquered territory which was in the formerly " No Man's Land " Lagos where they are vastly outnumbered by at least 7 to 1, but when it comes to survival true to their faith in Cromwell's advice, " Trust in God and keep your gunpowder dry" in the kickoff to the 2nd Biafran War of Liberation starting with # First we take Lagos # ''
Kadiri's claim about Igbos waving IPOB flag in Alausa, the seat of Lagos State government, is beyond ridiculous.
Alausa is in Ikeja, where I live.
The Alausa Government House is a heavily guarded fortress, with carefully manned gates, where heavily armed soldiers are permanently stationed. Entry into the place is carefully filtered.
Even the Alausa Secretariat, where the larger body of civil servants in the area are located, is accessible only through carefully guarded entrances. Military presence is everywhere in those places.
Even if some foolhardy person/s was able to unfurl the IPOB flag after entering, how would they escape? Alausa traffic is carefully managed, with functioning traffic lights, from what I recall, leading to at times slow movement of vehicles. The roads leading from there to the larger Ikeja axis are often rich with traffic, making speedy exit from the area challenging.
Would the daredevils escape by helicopter or would they be on a suicide mission of no return, forfeiting the need to escape?
Why was such a daring move not reported in the media for the senstional action it would represent?
The fact that Kadiri saw such an infantile claim as worth repeating, and on a public forum such as this one, suggests the level of penetration of APC propaganda, particularly among some Yoruba people, even among the Yoruba intelligentsia.
A tragic development.
Thanks
toyin
On Fri, 24 Mar 2023 at 21:24, Cornelius Hamelberg <cornelius...@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Obinna,
Your very latest demands are entirely reasonable, but not you & " Mr Adepoju's questions asking for credible sources", because, the truth of such occurrences - public spectacles. does not depend on "credible sources". I can tell you significant truths which you cannot find in any history book or newspaper.
Back in the day in Umuahia
where I was baptised (August 1981)
FULL IMMERSION ( in the river)
It was Omeworom ya!
You make me laugh O, my brother, but not at you or yours.
It's certainly never a laughing matter when it's some ancient order of reality, back in the day when there were myths and legends alright, transmitted through the oral tradition, but there were no cameras and voice recorders or lie detectors, and today it's other people's abiding truths that we're called to reflect on, such as "You ever seen a ghost? no But you've heard of them", such as " faith comes through hearing ", such as questions about the Virgin Birth , a reasonable request for proof for the immaculate conception. And what are your credible sources for, Jesus fed 5, 000 people on five loaves of bread and two fish? Jesus' resurrection and bodily ascension to"heaven ", the Holy Trinity…
More seriously, from the abstract to the concrete - and if we want to be extreme about it ( you know that we are all extremists in one way or another - in some conscious super-special nationalistic ethnic sense or the other) what immediately comes to mind is witness testimony, I'm talking about Holocaust Witness Testimony . photographs etc of the kind that you demand as proof of what could have happened just the other day in Lagos on even a very small scale - but happened on a much bigger and wider scale during Hitler's rampage in Europe, and as we all know, in spite of all the evidence Holocaust Denial persists.
There's a word that I first heard first used in this forum by Biko Agozino , the word "denialism", a very apt diagnosis of the psychosis
Permit me to be a little more long-winded here, a little more long-winded than usual, just for the record, because I'm in this for the long haul.
There's surely a difference of opinion being recorded here and this is just another side of the dialogue that redeems us from the danger of the single story, the innocent or wilfully monomaniacal, self-centered, self-serving monologue, a few ad misericordiam here and there sometimes playing to the gallery of popular prejudice or to the already converted. This time I just want to be absolutely clear, so that we don't misunderstand another opinion that may not be based on Gradgrindian facts or a lack of "negative capability" or a lack of empathy, sympathy, not the brutish human, brutish when he looks the other way, "pretending he just doesn't see", lacks your human understanding that beyond the distinctions and divisions of ethnicity, nationality, religion, culture, common/ uncommon ancestors, twelve tribes of Israel and all that, so many more in China, Kenya, South Africa, Palestine, and Japan, we are of the same human family, known as humanity, we are all one. Earthlings.
I was not "choosing to deflect" nor was I "comparing apples to oranges." Or bananas.
In your second to last / penultimate posting, you are the one who may have been oversimplifying an otherwise straightforward matter, and in that instance you remind me of the late great Professor Ogugua Anunoby who came up with a similar preposterous proposition, perhaps because he was not a professor of philosophy crunched out of the old Bertrand Russell - Irving Copi school of simple logic (and even for those who are, strange things can happen when logic gets overwhelmed by exalted Hebrew poetry) or perhaps it's because with the tragic haunting shadow of Biafra as a permanent background, whenever Biafra is mentioned or the spectre of Biafra or a triumphant & triumphalist resurrection of Biafra Igbohood captures the imagination, say , in a moment of conflict in Nigeraia - such as the mayhem that is being or has been reported but not neceassrily photographed or filmed by eyewitnesses in Lagos, understandably, Igbos could recoil into the mode of victimhood and not unjustifiably, in the throes of violence the over-sensitive could recede into paranoid feelings of persecution or in living fear of igbophobia - and that's my observation which you can't take away from me, that - yes I'm talking about Igbos - that Igbos generally ( by which I mean some Igbos) get emotionally overheated and can lose their bearings believing that we are living in the Biblical last days when - according to the Prophet Yoel , " Your old men shall dream dreams, Your young men shall see visions."
Somewhere here I told Ogugua Anunoby that I lived in love and harmony among Igbos in Nigeria for close to four years and that when an Igbo says "Hausa " or " Hausaman" he means Northerner and Muslim. Ogugua then asked me if I had asked all Igbos if that's what they mean!!! In the same vein, I suppose he would be asking me if I had asked all Israeli Jews, what they mean by " Palestinians". No Sir, I have not asked " All Igbos" and I'm sure that among the living and the dead, there are some who think that there's no difference between oranges and bananas but even if I haven't asked all of them, I'm sure all Igbos, especially the literary ones should agree with me that there is some difference between, toto,
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