Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2023 7:06 PM
To: USA Africa Dialogue Series <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Ethnic Politics in Nigeria: The Self Destructiveness of APC Anti-Igbo Strategy in Lagos State as Led by Femi Fani-Kayode
I'm not that daft. I'm more sceptical than you and furthermore, I don't have a dog in your fight so there's no reason for you to jump to insane conclusions or start talking about " image of a "person on the top of First Bank building" convinced you ( me) of "news that has been flying around for some time now" .
Sierra Leone, Ghana, South Africa, and Nigeria, I also have my contacts you know. On Day One - i.e. a few moments after it was announced that Obi had won I was told ( oral transmission) that your people were celebrating Obi's victory running around waving the IPOB flag all over Lagos, and I thought that it was amusing. To me, as amusing as when some time ago my friend Ted Belman ( a friend from long ago) was crying that the Palestinians had hacked ISRAPUNDIT and raised the Palestinian flag over it — or some such ridiculous thing.
It was ditto when I signed off " Cornelius Adebayo", Anunoby thought I was a militant Oduduwa advocate.
I was trained to have a keen ear not so much for what's being said but for the little or much that is not said ( the liar always wants to convince you/ me that he's telling the truth …
Interesting times: https://www.democracynow.org/shows
I wish you the best of luck in nipping this tribal conflict in the bud, in cooling down tensions and not exacerbating matters so that they get completely out of control
No more tittle-tattle, please. I'm not here to teach, I've got quite a bit to unlearn
LOL, just unbelievable.. Pushing this narrative must be really really important. This is an old playbook ==> when evidence of a claim cannot be found anywhere, share an obviously fake image just to continue forcing a narrative....
Speaks volumes if one random and very clearly photoshopped image of a "person on the top of First Bank building" convinced you of "news that has been flying around for some time now"
I see that you ensured that you included "... if indeed the photo is not doctored with the flag imposed on it." to leave an out - very smart.
Lol, nice try.
From: usaafric...@googlegroups.com <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Cornelius Hamelberg <cornelius...@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2023 2:35 PM
To: USA Africa Dialogue Series <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Ethnic Politics in Nigeria: The Self Destructiveness of APC Anti-Igbo Strategy in Lagos State as Led by Femi Fani-KayodeOluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju,
This news has been flying around for some time now., and I heard about it on day one. In my view, it's all symbolic. The flag is symbolic, and Obi's victory in Yoruba Man's Land is symbolic, just as the Biafran Flag is also symbolic - that's what flags are; symbols. So any talk about any of these symbols doesn't have to produce a concrete representational symbol such as the flag or crown for that line of poetry to be true, as you can well gather from a statement such as that someone disgraced or dishonoured the crown or the flag cannot be understood to be only true if you can produce a photo of the miscreant actually defecating or urinating on aforementioned crown or flag
If it's photos that you want as documentary evidence or " proof" then you need to search no further, here's one. The Last time I checked there was this photo of the IPOB flag fluttering over a prominent building in Lagos, although they or someone must have taken that flag down by now., if indeed the photo is not doctored with the flag imposed on it.
"IPOB flag raised over Lagos": More hysteria
It's time we put this hysteria away for good, unless like Goebbels they ( whoever they are) want to practice The Big Lie , that "If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it"
--On Saturday, 25 March 2023 at 02:44:07 UTC+1 Oluwatoyin Adepoju wrote:
Very funny:
''When I first heard this news - by oral transmission, I first thought that it was just a manner of speaking and only on second thoughts that it was possible that after Obi's defeat of Tinubu in Lagos some foolhardy but nonetheless elated Igbos - not necessarily hungry for martyrdom or for the 72 Virgins of Paradise, could have nevertheless been brave enough to be formally waving Nnamdi Kanu's flag in their newly conquered territory which was in the formerly " No Man's Land " Lagos where they are vastly outnumbered by at least 7 to 1, but when it comes to survival true to their faith in Cromwell's advice, " Trust in God and keep your gunpowder dry" in the kickoff to the 2nd Biafran War of Liberation starting with # First we take Lagos # ''
Kadiri's claim about Igbos waving IPOB flag in Alausa, the seat of Lagos State government, is beyond ridiculous.
Alausa is in Ikeja, where I live.
The Alausa Government House is a heavily guarded fortress, with carefully manned gates, where heavily armed soldiers are permanently stationed. Entry into the place is carefully filtered.
Even the Alausa Secretariat, where the larger body of civil servants in the area are located, is accessible only through carefully guarded entrances. Military presence is everywhere in those places.
Even if some foolhardy person/s was able to unfurl the IPOB flag after entering, how would they escape? Alausa traffic is carefully managed, with functioning traffic lights, from what I recall, leading to at times slow movement of vehicles. The roads leading from there to the larger Ikeja axis are often rich with traffic, making speedy exit from the area challenging.
Would the daredevils escape by helicopter or would they be on a suicide mission of no return, forfeiting the need to escape?
Why was such a daring move not reported in the media for the senstional action it would represent?
The fact that Kadiri saw such an infantile claim as worth repeating, and on a public forum such as this one, suggests the level of penetration of APC propaganda, particularly among some Yoruba people, even among the Yoruba intelligentsia.
A tragic development.
Thanks
toyin
On Fri, 24 Mar 2023 at 21:24, Cornelius Hamelberg <cornelius...@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Obinna,
Your very latest demands are entirely reasonable, but not you & " Mr Adepoju's questions asking for credible sources", because, the truth of such occurrences - public spectacles. does not depend on "credible sources". I can tell you significant truths which you cannot find in any history book or newspaper.
Back in the day in Umuahia
where I was baptised (August 1981)
FULL IMMERSION ( in the river)
It was Omeworom ya!
You make me laugh O, my brother, but not at you or yours.
It's certainly never a laughing matter when it's some ancient order of reality, back in the day when there were myths and legends alright, transmitted through the oral tradition, but there were no cameras and voice recorders or lie detectors, and today it's other people's abiding truths that we're called to reflect on, such as "You ever seen a ghost? no But you've heard of them", such as " faith comes through hearing ", such as questions about the Virgin Birth , a reasonable request for proof for the immaculate conception. And what are your credible sources for, Jesus fed 5, 000 people on five loaves of bread and two fish? Jesus' resurrection and bodily ascension to"heaven ", the Holy Trinity…
More seriously, from the abstract to the concrete - and if we want to be extreme about it ( you know that we are all extremists in one way or another - in some conscious super-special nationalistic ethnic sense or the other) what immediately comes to mind is witness testimony, I'm talking about Holocaust Witness Testimony . photographs etc of the kind that you demand as proof of what could have happened just the other day in Lagos on even a very small scale - but happened on a much bigger and wider scale during Hitler's rampage in Europe, and as we all know, in spite of all the evidence Holocaust Denial persists.
There's a word that I first heard first used in this forum by Biko Agozino , the word "denialism", a very apt diagnosis of the psychosis
Permit me to be a little more long-winded here, a little more long-winded than usual, just for the record, because I'm in this for the long haul.
There's surely a difference of opinion being recorded here and this is just another side of the dialogue that redeems us from the danger of the single story, the innocent or wilfully monomaniacal, self-centered, self-serving monologue, a few ad misericordiam here and there sometimes playing to the gallery of popular prejudice or to the already converted. This time I just want to be absolutely clear, so that we don't misunderstand another opinion that may not be based on Gradgrindian facts or a lack of "negative capability" or a lack of empathy, sympathy, not the brutish human, brutish when he looks the other way, "pretending he just doesn't see", lacks your human understanding that beyond the distinctions and divisions of ethnicity, nationality, religion, culture, common/ uncommon ancestors, twelve tribes of Israel and all that, so many more in China, Kenya, South Africa, Palestine, and Japan, we are of the same human family, known as humanity, we are all one. Earthlings.
I was not "choosing to deflect" nor was I "comparing apples to oranges." Or bananas.
In your second to last / penultimate posting, you are the one who may have been oversimplifying an otherwise straightforward matter, and in that instance you remind me of the late great Professor Ogugua Anunoby who came up with a similar preposterous proposition, perhaps because he was not a professor of philosophy crunched out of the old Bertrand Russell - Irving Copi school of simple logic (and even for those who are, strange things can happen when logic gets overwhelmed by exalted Hebrew poetry) or perhaps it's because with the tragic haunting shadow of Biafra as a permanent background, whenever Biafra is mentioned or the spectre of Biafra or a triumphant & triumphalist resurrection of Biafra Igbohood captures the imagination, say , in a moment of conflict in Nigeraia - such as the mayhem that is being or has been reported but not neceassrily photographed or filmed by eyewitnesses in Lagos, understandably, Igbos could recoil into the mode of victimhood and not unjustifiably, in the throes of violence the over-sensitive could recede into paranoid feelings of persecution or in living fear of igbophobia - and that's my observation which you can't take away from me, that - yes I'm talking about Igbos - that Igbos generally ( by which I mean some Igbos) get emotionally overheated and can lose their bearings believing that we are living in the Biblical last days when - according to the Prophet Yoel , " Your old men shall dream dreams, Your young men shall see visions."
Somewhere here I told Ogugua Anunoby that I lived in love and harmony among Igbos in Nigeria for close to four years and that when an Igbo says "Hausa " or " Hausaman" he means Northerner and Muslim. Ogugua then asked me if I had asked all Igbos if that's what they mean!!! In the same vein, I suppose he would be asking me if I had asked all Israeli Jews, what they mean by " Palestinians". No Sir, I have not asked " All Igbos" and I'm sure that among the living and the dead, there are some who think that there's no difference between oranges and bananas but even if I haven't asked all of them, I'm sure all Igbos, especially the literary ones should agree with me that there is some difference between, toto, ikoto and Mother Idoto
Re - what you request:" if you say Igbos were waving IPOB flags in Alausa, can you show any pictures or videos that show this"
Your question should of course be directed at Baba Kadiri and the media that has made that claim about Igbos waving their IPOB flag in Lagos, signifying and signaling their conquest of Lagos, otherwise known as " No Man's Land ", now as liberated or annexed territory under their flag.
When I first heard this news - by oral transmission, I first thought that it was just a manner of speaking and only on second thoughts that it was possible that after Obi's defeat of Tinubu in Lagos some foolhardy but nonetheless elated Igbos - not necessarily hungry for martyrdom or for the 72 Virgins of Paradise, could have nevertheless been brave enough to be formally waving Nnamdi Kanu's flag in their newly conquered territory which was in the formerly " No Man's Land " Lagos where they are vastly outnumbered by at least 7 to 1, but when it comes to survival true to their faith in Cromwell's advice, " Trust in God and keep your gunpowder dry" in the kickoff to the 2nd Biafran War of Liberation starting with # First we take Lagos #
There is of course this not-so-poetic equivalent: Israel's Ben Gvir orders police to take down Palestinian flags.
Since very long ago Cornelius Ignoramus crossed the Rubicon and came to his own conclusions: The answer my friend is Blowing in the wind
--On Friday, 24 March 2023 at 03:16:31 UTC+1 Obinna . wrote:
Not sure why you are choosing to deflect by comparing apples to oranges.Let me simplify the ask - if you say Igbos were waving IPOB flags in Alausa, can you show any pictures or videos that show this". Maybe you think that is a very complicated request to satisfy, if so, so be it.
If you think that asking for information that should be readily available on Twitter, Google etc to support allegations that were made calls for you to give me "a taste of your own medicine" that's all on you. You seem to be more focused on flinging anything out to support some narrative rather than addressing what should be simple enough to satisfy with links to images or videos
Get Outlook for iOS
From: usaafric...@googlegroups.com <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Cornelius Hamelberg <cornelius...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2023 6:13 PM
To: USA Africa Dialogue Series <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Ethnic Politics in Nigeria: The Self Destructiveness of APC Anti-Igbo Strategy in Lagos State as Led by Femi Fani-Kayode
Sir,
I get your drift
My understanding is that your rhetorical request that the less-than-omniscient Baba Kadiri should do the impossible is the equivalent of what I would say is "a tall order"
I was only - playfully - in the mode of Messrs Okey Iheduru and Chika Okeke-Agulu, giving you a dose of your own medicine by requesting that from that amorphous mega mass of nondescript cyber criminals ( 3.8 million cyber-terror attacks) as you say "without the proper details, context and comparisons." so you too must furnish us with the names and the party affiliations, ethnicities, Lombroso features of the suspected cyber "miscreants", with accuracy, precision, line up the suspects for an identification parade and point them out, that's all, nothing more, nothing less. Don't omit to provide the evidence, and no falsifiable hypotheses from you, please, Your Honour.
Otherwise, when it comes to meanings and definitions you can be
AS PEDANTIC AS YOU WANT TO BE
EVEN MORE PEDANTIC THAN WANNABE PETER OBI!
Dally Kimoko : Tobina
Rhymes with Obinna and Kobina
--On Thursday, 23 March 2023 at 21:28:07 UTC+1 Obinna . wrote:
Not clear how why asking for evidence to support ones allegations is "of such a tall order" and, what allegations or statements did I make for me to be asked to identify miscreants or anyone else?
and BTW, "Nigeria recorded XX million cyber attacks" does not necessarily mean much without the proper details, context and comparisons.
From: usaafric...@googlegroups.com <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Cornelius Hamelberg <cornelius...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2023 7:21 AMSubject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Ethnic Politics in Nigeria: The Self Destructiveness of APC Anti-Igbo Strategy in Lagos State as Led by Femi Fani-KayodeMessrs Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju & Obinna,
This is serious.
Your queries - of such a tall order - addressed to Baba Kadiri may be a matter of National & Pan -African urgency, but let's exercise a little patience, please.
Before Oyeniyi Bukola Adeyemi and Baba Kadiri's submissions are permitted to answer your inquiries and thereby satisfy/ not satisfy your curiosity, if possible we should like you to identify the miscreants behind these attempted perversion, subversion, and sabotage of the required ethical standards that should have governed the mother of all presidential elections in Nigeria:
Nigeria recorded 3.8 million Cyber attacks during gubernatorial, state assembly elections
There was also this interesting news item, "a number of persons have been Fingered in a Sting Operation for seeking to Manipulate the BVAS" forwarded by Dr. Siriku Eniola, followed by indignant rejoinders from Messrs Okey Iheduru and Chika Okeke-Agulu ( smile)
This is all speculation of course: None of us has to be as imaginative as the late John le Carré in order to say let's look at it this way: That ideally some of the unidentified cyber criminals would have gladly loved to have succeeded in hacking the BVAS and substituting their own grossly inflated figures for the real ones - of the x number of valid votes - and then insisted that those were the real figures - as released by an unwary INEC.
Hence their frustration that this did not happen, and we need to look for no further explanations of the tears - not crocodile tears or tears of tribulation but real dear tears, costly tears of frustration, tears of the missed opportunity by the aforementioned miscreants.
But what else to expect of miscreants who were planning to dump counterfeit currency into the Central Bank when a change of currency was slated for 1984 - which but for the grace of God the Buhari- Idiagbon coup on New Year's Eve 1983 aborted!
And of course, it's not the miscreants but the long-suffering and no longer shmiling who are hungry for justice that say, " God dae!"
--On Thursday, 23 March 2023 at 12:18:14 UTC+1 Oluwatoyin Adepoju wrote:
Salimonu,
Great thanks for this:
''Since over 70% of the population of Lagos is Yoruba, Peter Obi could not have won if the electorates were tribally inclined, that is to say if Yoruba had voted for Yoruba and non-Yoruba had voted for Igbo.''
Going forward, could you please provide evidence that makes you give credence to these claims:
''Following the declaration of the result of presidential election in Lagos, non-indigenes of Lagos went out not only to celebrate Obi's victory over Tinubu but also triumphantly chanted "Lagos is no man's land." ''
''It was even reported that some flew and waved "IPOB flag' at Alausa, the seat of Lagos State Government to demonstrate that Lagos has been captured.''
I am eagerly waiting.
Toyin
On Thu, 23 Mar 2023 at 00:08, Salimonu Kadiri <ogunl...@hotmail.com> wrote:
--Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju,
The result of the Presidential election in Lagos State gave Peter Obi, of the Labour Party, 582, 457 votes while Bola Ahmed Tinubu won 572, 611 votes. Peter Obi, former Governor of Anambra State in the South East won the presidential election in Lagos State over its former Governor with 9,846 votes. Since over 70% of the population of Lagos is Yoruba, Peter Obi could not have won if the electorates were tribally inclined, that is to say if Yoruba had voted for Yoruba and non-Yoruba had voted for Igbo. Following the declaration of the result of presidential election in Lagos, non-indigenes of Lagos went out not only to celebrate Obi's victory over Tinubu but also triumphantly chanted "Lagos is no man's land." It was even reported that some flew and waved "IPOB flag' at Alausa, the seat of Lagos State Government to demonstrate that Lagos has been captured.
Femi Fani-Kayode must have read or watched on TV about the demonstrating ethnic triumphalist in Lagos since he resides in Abuja. Naturally, Fani-Kayode reacted by correctly pointing out that Lagos, and its present day extension including part of the old Western Region, from time immemorial is a Yoruba land and not a no man's land. Fani-Kayode regarded the demonstration of Igbo political triumphalist in Lagos as conspiracy and revolt of Igbo immigrants against their hosts and he pleaded to the Yoruba to vote for Sanwo-Olu in the governorship election. At no time did Fani-Kayode incite the Yoruba to attack Igbo or destroy their properties because of the outcome of Presidential election. Remember that it was only in the Southwest of Nigeria that the Igbo recovered their houses after the civil war and rents collected and kept in escrow were paid back to their rightful owners. In Lagos, rents collected from the properties of the father of Chukwuemeka Odumegwu Ojukwu (OTL) had accumulated to N12 million when he returned from exile in 1982 and which he quietly collected without telling Nigerians, who got to know of it when one of his siblings, Lotanna Ojukwu filed a case in court to demand his own share of their father's heritage. In Rivers State, we have had Odili, Amechi and now Wike, all of who are Ikwere Igbo governors of the State after the civil war, yet up till date Igbo who fled as a result of the war have had their houses confiscated as abandoned properties.
You will recall that the annulment of June 12, 1993, Presidential election was preceded by midnight Court injunction granted to one Arthur Nzeribe that counting of votes should stop. When the election was annulled all Igbos in the Southwest fled to their ancestral home in the Southeast believing that war would breakout in the Southwest including Lagos. Chinua Achebe described that Igbo behaviour in his 'No Longer at Ease' as follows, "We are strangers in this land, when calamities befall the owners of the land, we return home leaving the owners of the land who know how to appease their own gods." Indeed, the Igbo in Lagos in the aftermath of the June 12, 1993 annulment thought calamity would befall the Southwest and they fled en masse and after the Yoruba had appeased their gods, Igbo people returned. Fani-Kayode has not, and he could never have, demonized the Igbo because it is neither in the genes or culture of the Yoruba people to be anti-human. At best, what Femi Fani-Kayode said about the presidential election vis-á vis the impending gubernatorial election in Lagos is in tandem with what Chinua Achebe made Okonkwo to say in his 'Things Fall Apart,' that if a person comes to defecate in your compound, get a big stick to break his head. I cannot say what belongs to Mr. Adepoju is ours and what belongs to me is mine only. And should Mr. Adepoju object to my expropriation of his belongings, I would accuse him of demonizing me and being unfriendly.S. Kadiri
From: usaafric...@googlegroups.com <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Cornelius Hamelberg <cornelius...@gmail.com>
Sent: 22 March 2023 15:00
To: USA Africa Dialogue Series <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Ethnic Politics in Nigeria: The Self Destructiveness of APC Anti-Igbo Strategy in Lagos State as Led by Femi Fani-Kayode
Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju,
As you may or may not have gathered from the posting about Things to avoid during Ramadan, calumny, backbiting, dissension, and civil strife, are some of the things that pious Muslims are advised to not engage in during the holy month of Ramadan.
In my humble opinion that should be the praxis for the rest of humanity too, including you and me, the year round.
I'm not equally sure about this measure: Lashon HaRa against the Wicked - or that we should desist from speaking out against evil and by default, thereby silently acquiesce and allow evil to triumph in our midst, in any of God's kingdoms down here on mother earth.
Cosmopolitanism may be, where some of us are coming from and that probably explains why when I checked the latest news about this righteous soul Femi Fani-Kayode I could find none of the nonsense being attributed to him by his desperate adversaries in the post-election era in which instead of stoking new ethnic fires, we should all be promoting peace and unity, peace and love, beginning with peace and reconciliation between the winners and the losers in the just concluded presidential elections
In the Nigerian context, whatever extensions may be derived from Femi Fani-Kayode asserting that Nigeria's former capital city, the still most cosmopolitan city in all of Nigeria and the undisputed economic hub of the nation "Lagos is NOT no-man's land." - is juridically and legally speaking, correct ( just ask the Oba of Lagos) just as Enugu or Umuahia or indeed Jerusalem or Stockholm or Ground Zero, Greenwich Street in multiethnic New York, or Bangkok the capital of Thailand cannot be said to be a " no man's land"
I suppose that the crux of the newfangled "no man's land" awareness is the wishful thinking that accompanied Peter Obi supposedly polling more votes than President-Elect Bola Ahmed Tinubu in Lagos, his own home turf. This of course could have made some of his Igbo supporters who voted for Obi there, giddy or delirious with their new national anthem " No Man's land"
Next stop in the name of Igbophobia, another no man's land, the Oyo Empire is really Igbo?
Resurrect the Sokoto Caliphate and baptize it Igbo?
You come tramping into my dining room and tell me, "This is no man's Land"?
Surely, these are not genius philosophical or poetic questions?
Next stop another Final Solution ( like Hitler's Jews telling him that Germany is " No Man's land" or Israel's Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich saying "there's no such thing as Palestinian people
"To see the townsfolk suffer so, From vermin, was a pity."
and, so, like the rats following the flute of the Pied Piper of Hamelin
they all get drowned in the Lagos Lagoon?
Listen up: Christopher Columbus
--On Tuesday, 21 March 2023 at 22:40:17 UTC+1 Oluwatoyin Adepoju wrote:
The Self Destructiveness of APC Anti-Igbo Strategy in Lagos State as Led by Femi Fani-KayodeVery, very sad.Ethnic politics in its inhuman baseness.These people dont know what time of day it is.Was it Igbos who massacred the EndSars protesters?Is it Igbos who have enabled a rapacious culture of thuggery in Lagos?Many people, including Yorubas, are tired of this kind of politics and voted against APC and PDP in the Presidential elections, a move that some APC short sighted people are struggling to paint as an effort to take Lagos from Yoruba people.These people, insisting on threatening Igbos in the name of political power, stoking the murder of Igbos as happened in the last election, are trying to start war.Igbos live in Lagos legitimately and earn their living legally as Nigerians.Trying to demonize them as the bigot and political prostitute Femi Fani-Kayode is doing is an invitation to war.This madman should be stopped by his party APC in the interests of all.Trying to destroy the economic strongholds associated with Igbos in Lagos, such as Computer Village, as FFK and others like him are projecting, is one of the most foolish things anyone can do, trying to destroy the central and perhaps only concentration of information technology and computing expertise in Nigeria in the name of ethnic supremacy.
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