Sent: Thursday, July 6, 2023 9:47:14 AM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - More Quran burning in Sweden in the name of "Freedom of Expression " 2
Sent: Thursday, July 6, 2023 6:13:22 AM
To: usaafricadialogue <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - More Quran burning in Sweden in the name of "Freedom of Expression " 2
Baba Kadiri,
Thanks again and Jazzak Allah Khairan...
1) Re -What you wrote about the Eid : "The celebration is in commemoration of Biblical Abraham (Muslim's Ibrahim) who wanted to offer his son, Isaac (Muslim's Ishaq) to God as a sacrifice before an Angel appeared to offer him a ram to offer to God (Genesis 22 :1-19)."
According to the Torah it was Isaac that was going to be offered - it's a foundation of the Hebrew Faith, hence the Akedah is a part of the morning prayerAccording to Islam, it was Ishmael
2. From this morning's Dagens Nyheter:
Three new applications to burn religious scriptures have been submitted to the police, SVT reports .
Because
The burning of the Koran outside Stockholm's mosque on Wednesday last week provoked strong reactions nationally and internationally.
Now three more applications to burn religious scriptures have been submitted to the police, two of them in Stockholm. The police must now assess whether they can be granted permission or not
- It is about safety aspects at the site. There are certain frameworks that we assess the applications based on, linked to the Public Order Act, says Rebecca Landberg, press spokesperson at the Stockholm Police.
One of the applications is from a woman in her 50s who has applied to burn the Koran outside a mosque in Stockholm, "as soon as possible", according to SVT.
A man in his 30s has applied to burn the Torah and a Bible outside the Israeli embassy in Stockholm on July 15.
On July 12, a private person wants to burn religious texts in central Helsingborg.
The police's region South is now working on the case in Helsingborg, but they do not yet know which religious scripture it is about.
- It is described as a demonstration of freedom of expression, including the burning of religious text, says Mattias Sigfridsson, head of police area Nordvästra Skåne to SVT.
- Our view is that it may not be aimed at any specific religion, but that it is part of freedom of expression and the debate that is going on right now.
After the latest Koran burning, the Swedish embassy in Iraq was stormed by protesters and the Swedish Ministry of Foreign Affairs came out and condemned the action. The Pope and other religious leaders as well.
On Wednesday morning, Pakistan's prime minister called for a nationwide protest this coming Friday.
3. Our Minister of Justice weighs in
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Demand for a change in the law after the Koran burning - Strömmer "analyzes" the decisive verdict
Updated yesterday 18:48 Published yesterday 17:28
Minister of Justice Gunnar Strömmer (M). Photo: Magnus Hallgren
After the uproar surrounding Koran burnings, Jonas Trolle, head of the Center Against Violent Extremism, wants the law to be rewritten so that the security of the kingdom is taken into account. When the police took that into account last spring - they were taught homework in several instances.
- We are currently analyzing the verdict within the Ministry of Justice, says Minister of Justice Gunnar Strömmer (M) to DN.
Because
The administrative court's verdict was crystal clear: the police lacked support when they stopped a Koran burning outside the Turkish embassy in February. It did not matter that both the police and the Security Police assessed that the Koran burning could mean "serious disruptions to national security". Even the Court of Appeal, where the police appealed the verdict, gave them homework.
So when a 37-year-old man stood outside the Stockholm mosque on Södermalm last week and burned a few pages from the Koran, he did so with the permission of the police.
The incident led to violent reactions around the world - and gave new fuel to the discussion about where the limits of Swedish freedom of expression lie. And on Wednesday, further applications were submitted to the police for permission to burn religious scriptures.
Jonas Trolle, head of the Center against Violent Extremism, is one of those calling for a change in the law, which Ekot in Sveriges Radio was the first to report . He points to a clause in the form of government that enables restrictions on freedom of expression out of consideration for the security of the kingdom. Such a wording should be written into the order law, which regulates public gatherings, he believes.
- For me, it is completely incomprehensible that such does not exist. The Ordinance Act covers traffic, public order and security at the site of demonstrations, but it does not cover more abstract threats such as terror. And it's parodic, says Trolle.
- For a long time, I have mentioned it in different contexts to different people who have the opportunity to influence this.
The Koran burnings have sparked protests. In Sweden but also abroad. Photo: Magnus Hallgren
Jonas Trolle, who is appointed by the government, believes that Sweden should be impressed by the fact that democratic countries such as Germany, France and Great Britain have legislation that makes it possible to stop similar events.
- I am for our foundation of freedom of expression, but in the current situation, you have to have a reality check . It is an unreasonable situation we are in.
On Monday, it was made clear that the police are not appealing the Court of Appeal's ruling, which found them wrong when they took national security into account. Something that has caused the Ministry of Justice to react.
- Now the Court of Appeal's judgment has gained legal force and we are currently analyzing it within the Ministry of Justice, writes Minister of Justice Gunnar Strömmer (M) in a comment to DN.
In recent times, several M profiles have also called for a different application of the law. Former foreign minister Carl Bildt has called the administrative court's interpretation "horribly narrow" and Gunnar Hökmark, former EU parliamentarian, has questioned whether Koran burnings really fit within freedom of expression. Even the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, under the leadership of Foreign Minister Tobias Billström, has condemned the Koran burning as an expression of racism and xenophobia.
Today, the moderates do not want to answer yes or no to whether any changes to the law may be needed. When DN put the question to all parties in February about whether there is reason to review the existing legislation, the answer from the Moderates was, in short, "no".
Today, the answer is not as clear.
"The Court of Appeal's judgment has just gained legal force and an analysis of it is underway within the Ministry of Justice. We do not want to precede it," writes the party.
This is how the parties feel about the law.
In a survey, DN asked all parliamentary parties the same question about Koran burnings: "Is there reason to review the legislation that exists today?"
M: The Court of Appeal's judgment has just gained legal force and an analysis of it is underway within the Ministry of Justice. We do not want to precede it.
A: We believe that the far-reaching freedom of expression we have in Sweden should be protected and do not believe that the rules that apply today should be changed. However, each of us also has a responsibility. Burning the Koran or other holy scriptures is deeply offensive to many people and what is legal is not always appropriate.
SD: We haven't had any such discussions.
V: We currently have no proposals for changes to the legislation, but are following the issue closely.
C: Regarding a review of legislation, it is a question of several different laws that interact here, and possibly the interaction may need to be reviewed, but we do not see the need for basic freedoms and rights to be on the table.
KD: The Christian Democrats currently have no such proposal.
MP: We have no such proposal.
L: It is important that we protect the constitution. The Liberals do not see a need to review the legislation.
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--On Thu, 6 Jul 2023 at 10:23, Salimonu Kadiri <ogunlakaiye@hotmail.com> wrote:
--Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju graciously posted his 'Holy Books' of which he would not like anyone to burn any copy. Should anyone burn any of his 'Holy Books' he would just dialogue with his 'Holy Books' arsonist in order to know his/her reasons for the arson. If Mr. Adepoju's hypothetical 'Holy Book' arsonist should get police permission and protection to burn a copy of any of his 'Holy Books' within the vicinity of his residence, I doubt if Mr. Adepoju, under such mental and psychological torture, would have time to think of dialoguing with the arsonist. If reasons behind Quran arsonist in Stockholm is important to Mr. Adepoju, the editorial written in the Swedish Dagens Nyheter by Jesper Ahlin Marceta on Tuesday, 4 July 2023, stated, "According to the man responsible for the latest arson on Quran, he said the purpose was to protest against Sharia laws, since they constitute a threat against democracy." Previous information about the Quran Arsonist disclosed that he was an Iraqi Christian granted political asylum in Sweden.
If Islamic Sharia Law is undemocratic, how much democratic is the Christian Mosaic Law? For Biblical instances - stoning to death adulterers and disobedient children, Deuteronomy 21:18-21, Deut. 22:22, Mathew 15:4, Mark 7:10; Killing Sabbath violators, Exodus 35:2; human sacrifice, Exodus 22:29-30, Ezekiel 20:26; Trial by ordeal, Numbers 5:14-22; Killing non-virgin brides, Deut. 22:20; and marriage by rape, Deut. 22:28-29. It is indisputable that Bible and Quran originated from the same place in the Middle East and the two religious books contain the same prophets or persons with Hebrew and Arabic names in the respective religion.
On Wednesday, June 28, 2023, while Muslims gathered at a Mosque in Stockholm to celebrate Eid al-Adha an arsonist under the protection of police intruded into the perimeter of the Mosque to vandalise and burn a copy of the Quran. The Quran arsonist had been granted permit to perform his act just within the perimeter of the Mosque which equalled to aiding and abetting him to instigate and incite Mosque attendants into violence. If it was just a case of right to freedom of expression and to demonstrate, why should the arson of a copy of Quran take place in front of the Mosque and not in any of the public squares in Stockholm, or in front of the Swedish Parliament or the front of the King's Palace? Can permission be given to anyone in the name of freedom of expression and demonstration to burn the flag of a nation within the perimeters of a foreign embassy with the flag arsonist enjoying protection of the police to perpetrate flag arson? There is freedom of religion in Sweden which is why there are Mosques in Sweden like where those that gathered to celebrate Eid al-Adha on June 28, 2023 in Stockholm's South. The celebration is in commemoration of Biblical Abraham (Muslim's Ibrahim) who wanted to offer his son, Isaac (Muslim's Ishaq) to God as a sacrifice before an Angel appeared to offer him a ram to offer to God (Genesis 22 :1-19). Although in Muslim countries, rams are openly slaughtered in households to mark the occasion, the law-abiding Muslims in Sweden, in compliance to the Swedish law that forbids the slaughter of animals at home, abandoned that aspect of celebrating Eid al-Adha.
Sweden Foreign Affairs Ministry has condemned the arson committed on Quran in Stockholm and called it an expression for racism and xenophobia. Of what race are Muslims? Of what race are Christians? Does a Swede who voluntarily choose to be a Muslim or Hare Krishna lose his/her racial identity? When nobody is being forced to convert or become Muslim, why must it be a freedom of expression to humiliate Swedish Muslims at their places of abode and their places of prayer, Mosques, by police-supported arsons on their Holy Book, the Quran? Can the Police Authorities in Sweden give permit and protection to anyone, in the name of freedom of expression, to go and read the following verses of the Holy Bible at a Pride Festival Congregation? Leviticus 18:22, Leviticus 20:13, Deuteronomy 23:17-18, Romans 1:26-28, 1 Corinthias 6:9-10, and Jude 7-8. Conversely, one will like to know if the Police will grant permit and protection to a same-sex copulating enthusiast to burn a copy of the Bible within the precinct of State Churches in Sweden because of the afore-referred verses.S. Kadiri
From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Cornelius Hamelberg <corneliushamelberg@gmail.com>
Sent: 02 July 2023 23:56
To: USA Africa Dialogue Series <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - More Quran burning in Sweden in the name of "Freedom of Expression " 2Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju,
Why didn't you include Moshe Chaim Luzzatto?
4U2 Smile:
I'm not an idol worshipper and I'm telling you the Gospel truth: If you had included Kperogi (About 1 020 000 results (0,41 seconds) I would have forgiven you, easily, since it would have confirmed something about your taste, not for literate literary criticism per se, but for big grammar characteristics, spinx jingoism, and higher political hermeneutics extravaganza
Now, let it be said: I'm not going to forgive you because you did not include Abiola Irele, speak less of the only book I've read about your area, written by J. Omosade Awolalu who in my estimation deserves a place in your pantheon.
If I have offended you, please forgive me.
I've been wondering why you limit your Holy books to 14 categories.
BTW, in 1989, my Pir, Sultanhussein Tabandeh who was then the Qutb and leader of The Gonabadi Dervishes requested that I should read Al Quran Al Kareem fourteen (14) times;I suppose in honour of The Fourteen Infallibles, alaihim salaam.
With all the nonsense rabble Islamophobic talk about "Militant Islam", and "Moderate Islam" I would recommend that for a proper orientation, you visit this website https://www.al-islam.org/
and prepare yourself for the advent of Imam Mahdi -alaihi salaam
'
--On Sunday, 2 July 2023 at 00:29:24 UTC+2 Oluwatoyin Adepoju wrote:
My Holy Books
1. The sections on Iya Lekuleja in Toyin Falola's A Mouth Sweeter than Salt and Counting the Tiger's Teeth
2. Toyin Falola's essay '''Ritual Archives''
3. My ongoing essay on the image of Iya Lekuleja
4. The acknowledgements pages of Nimi Wariboko's books and some of his Whatsapp communications
5. My essays on Nimi Wariboko
6. Akinwumi Ogundiran's The Yoruba A New History
7. My writings on Ogundiran's book
8. Various writings of Wole Soyinka's
9. Everything written by Susanne Wenger
10. My writings on Wenger
11. A good no of the works of Immanuel Kant
12. My own writing on Kant
13. More not incuded here, including works of fiction
14. The Bible, the Koran, the Bhagavad Gita, the Mahabarata, ese ifa and other traditionally understood holy books
Why Are Those Texts Holy to Me?
They are inspired and they inspire me
No one should burn my own copies bcs they are precious to me
I would not want any copes to be burnt so people are not deprived of them
but i would wonder why anyone would bother burning copies of them
is the person trying to make a statement of some sort?
i would like to dialogue with the person to understand what they are trying to say
but i would not be offended, disturbed or challged by such burning
you cant burn ideas
unless the person is not trying to send a signal of hatred as in the Nazi burning of Jewish books i would not be bothered
i would be interested though in the persons motives
thankstoyin
On Sat, 1 Jul 2023 at 19:29, Harrow, Kenneth <har...@msu.edu> wrote:
--dear cornelius, toyin,i don't want to offend other people. if i disagree with them, i still will respect them, as long as their own beliefs and actions are not offensive to me or others.so, no qur'an burning. ok. why not? we actually are taught to bury any papers marked with hebrew religious content, rather than to put it in the garbage or recycling, like copies of texts you might be working on and which contain sacred texts. in the past such manuscripts or scrolls would be buried in a geniza, and amidav ghosh wrote a beautiful novel on just the materials and stories that emerged from one such egyptian geniza after hundreds of years had gone by and an anthropologist student came upon them. It was called, In an Antique Land (1992).
the genizas were actually ancient trash bins. what irony, sacred trash becomes archival material of inestimable worth.
We don't have to agree on what is sacred and what is haram, what is to be revered and what disrespected, as long as we can be tolerant of each other.in spain the best jamon in the world is to be found; in brooklyn it might be considered treif or harmful garbage. but don't spit on my food, don't burn my sacred texts, i won't burn yours.when the taliban destroyed the giant buddhist statues in afghanistan, even after the buddhists were all gone, whose statues were they destroying? yours and mine. ours, all of ours.i claim them for us; i claim the benin bronzes for us; i claim the original declaration of independence for us; i claim the magna carta for us; i claim the dead sea scrolls and the codex sinaitucus for us.so toyin is right, in a sense. we do not want to treat the buddhas or qur'ans or bibles or statues as holy idols which belong to just one people, and whose harm is felt by its owners. we are all harmed by the violence and disrespect, not because the idol is sacred, but because we are holy ourselves.ken
kenneth harrow
professor emeritus
dept of english
michigan state university
From: usaafric...@googlegroups.com <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Cornelius Hamelberg <cornelius...@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 1, 2023 12:05 PM
To: USA Africa Dialogue Series <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - More Quran burning in Sweden in the name of "Freedom of Expression " 2Shalom
After Mao and the Communists took over in China, at the age of thirty-five ( 35) my late best friend and erstwhile mentor Mikhail Tunkel - very Jewish, of Lithuanian ancestry - a disciple of Ze'ev Jabotinsky, a great admirer of the Chinese people, a friend of Ehud Olmert's father, etc, moved from Harbin, China, where he was born and bred, moved to Israel In 1953 -and to Sweden circa 1988. Back in his dear Israel, one day, when curiosity got the better of him, he entered Al-Aqsa Mosque, so he tells me, and with increasing excitement, as he was making his way to the minbar which he imagined was the mosque's holy of holies, he espied the Quran and was about to take hold of the book when a loud voice - which he thought was coming from Heaven, shattered the silence with these words:
" Only the pure shall touch it! "
He says that his heart almost stopped and he almost fell down with fright, he thought it was the voice of the archangel Gabriel, but it turned out it was only one of the custodians of the mosque shouting from the balcony that he should not touch the Holy Quran, that he must be in a state of wudu - (ritual purity) to touch the Holy Quran …
I Have only one question in response to all that you have said in this thread: Does Hillel's dictum not apply to Quran burning?
Hillel the Elder: "That which Is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow! That is the whole Torah; the rest is commentary"
--On Saturday, 1 July 2023 at 03:16:00 UTC+2 Harrow, Kenneth wrote:
i'm like toyin adepoju in thinking the value of the book doesn't really lie in its material properties. and i wouldn't let the haters bait me.on the other hand, there's lots of burning i would really mind a lot.i recently read of the various statues and scrolls etc destroyed by the various goons during the iraq war—priceless heritage of all human kind. and the taliban destruction of the buddhist statues.
if it were a 8th century qur'an, i'd be upset; if it were an early christian relic, i'd be upset.etc etcthe nazis burned everything jewish they could get their hands on, or sold them. i don't like that.
toyin is right: we don't want to go to war over idolatry of this or that manuscript; but we do want to give value to humanity in our veneration of objects we treasure....like, for instance, the benin bronzes, or ifa heads or yoruba masks etc. when the missionaries burned them they were the same as the foolish iraqi man in sweden who delighted in desecration of the qur'an.
i'm with anthony appiah on this: the relics of each of us are relics for all of us.ken
kenneth harrow
professor emeritus
dept of english
michigan state university
From: usaafric...@googlegroups.com <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Oluwatoyin Adepoju <ovde...@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, June 30, 2023 7:54 PM
To: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - More Quran burning in Sweden in the name of "Freedom of Expression " 2If it were my own holy book being burnt I would not care
--On Fri, Jun 30, 2023, 2:22 PM Cornelius Hamelberg <cornelius...@gmail.com> wrote:
--A copy of the Holy Quran was burned outside a mosque in Sweden on Wednesday during the Eid al-Adha celebration
Saudi Arabia condemns extremist who burnt Quran outside Stockholm mosque during Eid
Holy Wrath 👍
Turkeye's President Erdogan reacts to the burning of a Quran outside a mosque in Sweden :
""We will eventually teach the arrogant Westerners that insulting Muslims is not freedom of thought; We will show our reaction in the strongest possible terms, until a determined victory against terrorist organizations and Islamophobia is achieved, Those who commit this crime as well as those who allow it under the guise of freedom of opinion, those who tolerate this despicable act will not be able to achieve their ambitions"
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