Tuesday, September 26, 2023

Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - "Black leaders say threats to undermine US democracy appear aimed at their community"

I do think race is a significant factor in american consciousness. And i agree w viktor about it not being the case in most of africa—in fact the only african country where i think heightened racial consciousness exists is south africa—and, in fact, in absolute fact, all 5 countries of north africa.

That said, i also believe that just as you have conservative apartheid types and anti-apartheid types in south africa, so too is it racist and anti-racist sides that characterize the u.s. some might want to say all whites are racist, etc. but that's not true: there is perhaps a range of white liberals who don't want to sacrifice very much to advance an anti-racist agenda, but who arenot rapid trumpist racist types. And perhaps some republicans are not virulent racists, and don't believe in systemic racism. But our country is divided; just as are the europeans over the same issue, although for them it might be turks or arabs or roma etc who constitute the "other race."

I know many have heard this before, but for me it bears repeating. When an american goes to africa, that is, to sub-saharan africa, they mostly experience a non-racialized encounter with people of color, unlike what they have been living with all their lives. And for me and many others, it was as if a burden, of which we were unconscious, was lifted off our shoulders. It is enough to want to live in africa and not the states because it is a way of being freed, free to be with other people. I wonder if black americans going to paris in the 1920s and 30s felt some of that liberation and relief. 
Ken
From: 'Michael Afolayan' via USA Africa Dialogue Series <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2023 12:54:20 PM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - "Black leaders say threats to undermine US democracy appear aimed at their community"
 
"Also problematic is MOA's implied justpositioning of Obama's presidential bids with Trump's as demonstrated in this line: "a group that would go on days of praying and fasting to be sure that Obama lost, Trump won…" To be clear, Barack Obama and Donald Trump were never presidential campaign rivals, as MOA's preceding statement implied. In his first and successful presidential contest, Obama (Democrat) ran against John McCain (Republican) back then in 2008. And, in his re-election bid in four years later, Obama ran against Utah's Senator Mitt Romney (Republican) in 2012. MOA's other problematic assertion is that "the average Nigeria's pentecostal Christians" … "would go on days of praying and fasting to be sure that Obama lost…" This claim is belied by the history that I recall which tells me that on the contrary, Obama's election in 2008 as the first Black president of the United States was greeted with huge acclaim across Africa in particular and across the world in general." VOO

Sorry, Victor, I did not clarify my statement that you highlighted here, which I have quoted above. Of course, I was not ignorant of the fact that "Barack Obama and Donald Trump were never presidential campaign rivals . . ." By making the statement I made that "a group that would go on days of praying and fasting to be sure that Obama lost, Trump won…", I just condensed historical narrative; I did not mean that they contested together. My more than four decades of American domicile would be a waste if I did not understand that fact. As a matter of fact, I believe it was the reactionary stance of America to an Obama presidency that birthed a Trump ascendancy to national political prominence. And please be aware that I am a part of the so-called Nigeria's "pentecostal Christians" and saying "the average" implies not everyone in that population but, trust me, a chunk shares that position. Yes, when the initial idea of a black man aspiring to presidency in America, everyone cheered, but when in that "pentecostal" population it was realized this black man was a "gay lover," "abortion proponent," "lover of Muslims," etc., this was too "liberal" for the conservative pentecostal. In fact, at a point, "prophecies" were coming of an "anti-Christ" in black skin, calling for raising an altar against such man, etc. 

Look, this is not about Nigeria. It's about the Republican (and Democrats)'s attitude to the issue of race in America. I just digressed a bit to warn Ken and Oluwatoyin about the conservative pentecostal group in Nigeria as well. Thanks for paying attention to my noise. I appreciate it.

MOA





On Monday, September 25, 2023, 08:18:14 PM GMT+1, 'Victor Okafor' via USA Africa Dialogue Series <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> wrote:


One point that needs to be added to MOA's contention is my own position that the so-called average Nigerian--who all his/her life has lived in Nigeria—tends to lack racial consciousness, and so, does not and is not generally able to view and correctly interpret the racial dynamics of the domestic politics of the United States. Suffice it to say that the domestic politics of the United States is inescapably racially tinged, just as ethnicism/tribalism does infect domestic politics in Africa's generally-ethnically diverse geopolitical terrains. Second, the so-called average Nigerian (like his other continental African counterparts)—who all his/her life has lived in Nigeria—tends to lack a nuanced and historically-informed understanding of the historical foundation and the historical conditioning of the contemporary circumstances of African Americans. In general, much of what that average Nigerian (like his other continental African counterparts) knows and thinks about African Americans tends to be derived from popular media; and the same generally goes for the average African American who has lived all his/her life in the United States. And, of course, if your fundamental understanding of life and life's phenomena is driven primarily by popular media information, then misinformation, distortions, and the superficiality of that understanding are inevitable. This is not to imply that the established and rather more reliable alternative medium of information of human affairs known as academic knowledge is either fundamentally beret of misinformation and distortions or that it always generates reliable and valid knowledge. The academic world of knowledge production and dissemination also suffers from human frailties.

That said, it is my well-considered position that MOA erred in his postulation by limiting his implied racial naivete charge to only "the average Nigeria's pentecostal Christians." Also problematic is MOA's implied justpositioning of Obama's presidential bids with Trump's as demonstrated in this line: "a group that would go on days of praying and fasting to be sure that Obama lost, Trump won…" To be clear, Barack Obama and Donald Trump were never presidential campaign rivals, as MOA's preceding statement implied. In his first and successful presidential contest, Obama (Democrat) ran against John McCain (Republican) back then in 2008. And, in his re-election bid in four years later, Obama ran against Utah's Senator Mitt Romney (Republican) in 2012. MOA's other problematic assertion is that "the average Nigeria's pentecostal Christians" … "would go on days of praying and fasting to be sure that Obama lost…" This claim is belied by the history that I recall which tells me that on the contrary, Obama's election in 2008 as the first Black president of the United States was greeted with huge acclaim across Africa in particular and across the world in general.

Generally speaking, except for African countries who had to wage protracted guerrilla wars for freedom against Western European colonial powers in what were known as Settler colonies (such as Kenya, Zimbabwe, Mozambique, Angola, Namibia, Algeria, and South Africa although South Africa's bitter anti-apartheid struggle eventually ended without an outright internal guerrilla-type warfare), continental African nationals tend to lack racial consciousness. However, those of them who emigrated and settled in the Diaspora generally got to become racially conscious as they navigated the socioeconomic institutions of the West, particularly the educational, employment, and housing areas of Western societies. 


On Sat, Sep 23, 2023 at 5:22 AM 'Michael Afolayan' via USA Africa Dialogue Series <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> wrote:
Ken and Oluwatoyin: Please don't say these in the ears of the average Nigeria's pentecostal Christians, a group that would go on days of praying and fasting to be sure that Obama lost, Trump won, and prophesied that Biden and Harris wouldn't live to see their own swearing-in. They think Ben Carlson should be President of the United Nations' General Assembly, and Trump should come back and re-introduce colonialism in Africa. The group seems to believe that the ordeal of African Americans is because they are lazy. 

MOA
On Saturday, September 23, 2023, 09:29:47 AM GMT+1, Harrow, Kenneth <harrow@msu.edu> wrote:


Krugman makes this point about the Republican party over and over. I don't know of any reputed columnist who doesn't agree that they have become the party of racists, https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/18/opinion/economic-conservatives-extremism.html

The difference between republicans and democrats on the questions of racism is radical now. Not just my opinion, an absolute fact. If there are a handful of black politicians who have seen an opportunity to become the exception in the republican fold, the vast majority are supporting racist candidates. If you think there is a democrat who is racist, it would be as rare as hens' teeth.
This is the reality of american politics nowdays, as viktor's column affirmed.
Ken

From: 'Dr. Oohay' via USA Africa Dialogue Series <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Friday, September 22, 2023 1:13:34 PM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - "Black leaders say threats to undermine US democracy appear aimed at their community"
 
You often tend to speak in absolutistic terms. Perhaps, your viewpoints would be more persuasive if you don't  fall for Dr. Dogma or its assistant Dr. Pander. Don't we have racists in the two major political parties?


On Friday, September 22, 2023, 10:30 AM, Harrow, Kenneth <harrow@msu.edu> wrote:

The republican party has become thoroughly racist in its politics. Its attack on black leadership or peoples, including any legislation to assist black people, is intended to rally whites, often evangelical whites, against minorities, against immigrants, against any group associated with democrats. 
Trump has exacerbated this hatred, as has de santis. They even seek to delegitimize the teaching of black history. The worst excesses of colonialist discourses are now lacing their rhetoric. It is no wonder we are a country radically divided.
Ken

From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Oluwatoyin Adepoju <ovdepoju@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, September 22, 2023 7:06:27 AM
To: usaafricadialogue <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - "Black leaders say threats to undermine US democracy appear aimed at their community"
 
Generation after generation, fighting for ones right to exist as a fellow human in the only.place one can call home

On Fri, Sep 22, 2023, 9:37 AM 'Victor Okafor' via USA Africa Dialogue Series <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> wrote:

--
Sincerely,

Victor O. Okafor, Ph.D.
Professor and Head
Department of Africology and African American Studies
Eastern Michigan University
Tel: 734.487.9594 
Food for Thought: 
"The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress." -- Frederick Douglass


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--
Sincerely,

Victor O. Okafor, Ph.D.
Professor and Head
Department of Africology and African American Studies
Eastern Michigan University
Tel: 734.487.9594 
Food for Thought: 
"The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress." -- Frederick Douglass


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