Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2023 6:55:17 AM
To: usaafricadialogue <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Palesrael: The Single State Solution
--This "war" is an abomination. The israeli repression of the people of gaza was, is, awful. But the action hamas et al have taken will result in reprisals where thousands of gazans will die. The decision to unleash this was an enormously bad one. The consequences will not be a universal uprising against israel; it will be deaths to be counted in large numbers of palestinian bodies, with about 700 israelis to boot.
Biko's statement about war being good for nothing, and jawing always better, is completely right.Ken
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From: bikozino via USA Africa Dialogue Series <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 8, 2023 3:59:07 PM
To: cornelius...@gmail.com <corneliushamelberg@gmail.com>
Cc: USA Africa Dialogue Series <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Palesrael: The Single State SolutionRabbi Cornel,War, what is it good for?
Absolutely nothing.
Thanks for your clarifications. Let the people jaw jaw rather than war war. They can vote in a referendum for or against federalism.
Biko--
On Oct 8, 2023 3:11 PM, "cornelius...@gmail.com" <corneliushamelberg@gmail.com> wrote:
Biko,
Just to refresh your memory:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a8/Scramble-for-Africa-1880-1913.png
Yesterday, Netanyahu said "We are at war and will win" - at war with little Gaza , the Gaza Strip , an open-air prison ,size, 365 km2 (141 square miles ) with a population of 2.2 million people boxed in and still besieged..
Consider Africa's smallest country The Gambia is 11,300 km² ( 4,400 square miles)
Right now the Israeli Knesset has declared full war on HAMAS
Take note that the 2.2 million citizens of the Gaza Strip are not all HAMAS Fighters…
"…"Deliberately targeting civilians, carrying out disproportionate attacks, and indiscriminate attacks which kill or injure civilians are war crimes. Israel has a horrific track record of committing war crimes with impunity in previous wars on Gaza. Palestinian armed groups from Gaza, must refrain from targeting civilians and using indiscriminate weapons, as they have done in the past, and most intensively in this event, acts amounting to war crimes."
"The root causes of these repeated cycles of violence must be addressed as a matter of urgency. This requires upholding international law and ending Israel's 16-year-long illegal blockade on Gaza, and all other aspects of Israel's system of apartheid imposed on all Palestinians. The Israeli government must refrain from inciting violence and tensions in the occupied West Bank, including East Jerusalem, especially around religious sites. Amnesty International calls on the international community to urgently intervene to protect civilians and prevent further suffering."
Please read the full statement : t.ly/Z3h_X
Your proposal dated November 19, 2012, reads like an interesting rehash of Muammar al-Gaddafi and his son Saif al-Islam Gaddafi's grand 2003 idea of a proposed one-state solution to be known as Isratin. We must give credit to Muammar al-Gaddafi inviting Israel to join the Arab League.
The introductory quote of Edward Said ( "Israeli Jews and Palestinians are irrevocably intertwined demographically...Palestinians and Israelis interact, through antipathy and hostility, but physically they're in the same place...this is something that can't be changed by pulling people back to separate boundaries or separate states." seems to be in the same spirit as Shlomo Sand and his book," The Invention of the Jewish People'' which attracted a lot of flak, not least of all when he arrived in Stockholm to present it. I was there that evening and could give you some first-person witness testimony, mostly from my diary, less so from memory, but I do recall that I didn't like him very much and back then my impression was that he was playing too much to the Palestinian gallery; his buk no doubt became a bestseller in those quarters - the Arab Street, and as proof of all that he was saying therein, all he had was the sort of proof you mostly arrive at without any solid evidence…
So that was the Gaddafis in 2003, and Biko Agozino in 2012. Since then right up to the very latest developments on the battle ground, I feel that when the dust of battle finally settles from the ongoing imbroglio, the Israelis under whatever government, unity or otherwise, will be pushing with their Arab neighbours for The Jordan Option
Briefly, I do not for a moment buy into all the blood tears being shed on the Israeli and international media, lamenting Israeli Intelligence which is said to be second to one, allegedly caught napping this time around. As Israel critic Gideon Levy said (and I don't like him very much either) but I believe that he was nearer to the truth when he also expressed some grave doubts, saying that after all Israel has Intelligence about what's happening in Gaza 24hrs a day, and that Intelligence gathering apparatus ( and informants) can tell you the colour of each and every Gaza citizens underwear…let alone, the stockpiling of rockets etc etc….
In any one-state solution, if that state should be democratic, how would the essential Jewish nature of the state co-exist with inalienable Palestinian equal rights? That is the moot question, and we haven't got to borders ,defence and the Justice system which is about to be overhauled by Netanyahu's right -wing government proposing 124 ( one hundred and twenty four) legislative acts which are all100% undemocratic…
Of the essence : Consistent with the divide and rule policy, the CIA assisted in the creation of HAMAS to counteract the dominant Palestinian power, FATAH…. HAMAS won the elections in Gaza (there haven't been any elections in the Palestinian territories since 2007)and everyone including Mahmud Abbas knows that HAMAS has and can challenge the popularity of Fatah in both Gaza and the West Bank and AND that given the tenets of the revised Hamas Charter of 2017 - especially Article11 of that Charter, it would seem that HAMAS is no pussy with whom Israel can conclude any successful peace negotiations - whereas after routing HAMAS in the next three weeks , the Israelis probably believe that they will be able to deal with a more toothless FATAH - and perhaps the Jordan option….
--On Sunday, 8 October 2023 at 17:22:30 UTC+2 Biko Agozino wrote:
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