Toyin ore mi,--I'd recommend Insa Nolte's PhD thesis from CWAS, Uni of Birmingham, UK. She articulates an interesting dynamic between Osugbo (Ogboni) and kingship.Best,NoëlSent from my iPhoneOn Feb 23, 2025, at 14:24, Oluwatoyin Adepoju <ovdepoju@gmail.com> wrote:Thanks Cornelius.
The Koran is a purely sacred text.
But Ogboni has been both a governmental and a sacred institution.
I'm indicating that Ogboni should consider telling their own history, for example, particularly since I'm not aware of any such history.
They could also share info on their art and even their spirituality.
Info on all this already exists from scholarship in non-Ogboni contexts.
Why can't Ogboni be direct contributors, through their own scholars, in these processes of exploration and publication,?
--On Sun, Feb 23, 2025, 3:39 PM Cornelius Hamelberg <corneliushamelberg@gmail.com> wrote:Cornelius Ignoramus is incapable of getting into any learned tittle-tattle with you since Cornelius Ignoramus is now telling you for the nth time that when it comes to Ifa, Ogboni, Odinala and allied disciples, his knowledge or personal experience is ZILCH .You are the one who my fellow ignoramuses are looking up to inform us, especially since the Law of Jante doesn't operate here,
"Those specifics do not require insider participation to appreciate."
Since we're talking about "secret knowledge" what exactly could your specifics be?
Could please clarify what those specifics are (for the indocile)
Enormous credit ( almost to the point of veneration) is given to EZRA;
Cornelius Ignoramus' background is limited to some of the essential Hindu Corpus.
The impression you give is that Ogboni teachings have been transmitted through the oral tradition and that they do not have a written canon (of scripture) and that at this stage perhaps the Ogboni are at a juncture that's similar to Islam's before the collection of the Quran
I suppose that the next stage you propose is some speech-to-text technology that would accurately transcribe ( and translate ?) Ogboni's oral lore and that would be one of the ways that "Ogboni could better contribute to the world." ?
--On Sunday, 23 February 2025 at 12:40:27 UTC+1 Oluwatoyin Adepoju wrote:Thanks.
I was clear about the specifics of my views of how Ogboni could better contribute to the world.
If you could address those specifics it would be great.Those specifics do not require insider participation to appreciate.ThankstoyinOn Sat, 22 Feb 2025 at 23:38, Cornelius Hamelberg <cornelius...@gmail.com> wrote:Concerning The Ogboni Society, at this point you remind me of Ulli Beier . It was the latest news then, in Ghana, and I must have either read the news item in Black Orpheus or it was Abiola Irele who said in passing, at a seminar, that Beier had gone to Papua New Guinea, the last or the latest "area of darkness" to shed some light there.
Perhaps, it's the same kind of urge that motivates your essay "The Necessity of Upgrading Intellectual Culture in Classical Yoruba Spirituality in Nigeria: The Challenge Facing the Ogboni Esoteric Order" - the main difference being that you are already physically very close to or actually living in the area of darkness that you would like to illuminate.
But as an outsider and not an initiate, are these not assumptions / presumptions about the need "to upgrade" ? Does the Ogboni Esoteric Order, by all means a Secret Society, have or need to have or be mired in an "Intellectual Culture" ? In what way would you like such an intellectual culture to flourish, as a part or the very essence of what you want to define as "Classical Yoruba Spirituality"?
Perhaps they should set up a Faculty of Classical Yoruba Spirituality to be run by researchers and other interested scientific investigators of the paranormal such as New Age Guru, Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju ?
I couldn't help thinking about your essay and religious reformers a few days ago, as I listened to How is Sufism related to Islam? ( A short and succinct lecture - please listen in if you have the time )
With Sufism ( where my experience is less than 1% ), especially in the last 100 years or so, some of the kinds of "upgrading" that you so urgently desire, and the intellectualization & kalam, Neoplatonism etc that you would like to see flourish within the Ogboni has certainly been taking place and the result is many neo-Sufi organisations and pseudo Sufis blooming like grass whilst serious seekers are busy looking for the simple original.
As a proud Nigerian I suppose you'd love to see what could be achieved by a more active global proselytization of those aspects of Yoruba Spirituality, since you have precedents such as Paul, an Apostle to the Gentiles, and more recently the case of Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa and his apostle to the West, Swami Vivekananda resulting in premier teaching centres such as
ArshaBodha - Swami Tadatmananda
Re - what you say. that " The current policy of almost total silence in terms of writing is not in anyone's best interests". Since you are not an initiate or a member, you are obviously not in a position to determine whose best interests the policy of almost " total silence" serves.
.
On Friday, 21 February 2025 at 15:31:19 UTC+1 Oluwatoyin Adepoju wrote:The Necessity of Upgrading Intellectual Culture in Classical Yoruba Spirituality in NigeriaThe Challenge Facing the Ogboni Esoteric OrderEdan OgboniOgboni metal sculpturesymbolizing the unity of women and men as children of Earth
Oluwatoyin Vincent AdepojuCompcrosThe Outstanding Success of Ogboni in Nigerian EsotericismThe Ogboni esoteric order, first developed in Yorubaland, perhaps in New Oyo, as part of the governance system of the state, in relation to a rich spiritual and philosophical culture, is perhaps the most successful of Nigerian esoteric orders.Ogboni HistoryBut I am not aware of the existence of a comprehensive history of Ogboni.I am not aware of any effort to map the origins and development of this most influential of Nigerian esoteric schools from its emergence, its ascendancy in Oyo, its role in the upheavals represented by years of intra -community conflicts in Yorubaland, the changes it underwent with the advent of colonialism, its national, international and multi-ethnic spread, the origins and significance of the creation of splinter groups and its contemporary existence and role in Nigeria and outside Nigeria.Ogboni and PoliticsCenturies of knowledge of statesmanship, of politics, of social organization and resilience represented by Ogboni history are either lost, as those with the knowledge passed away or significantly reduced, in the face of reliance on orality for so long and the question of whether or not there exists an Ogboni oral history culture or an Ogboni scribal history culture and how robust these are, in terms of particular Ogboni schools and unifying each other.Ogboni Metal ArtClassical Yoruba art is one of the most accomplished in the world. Ogboni metal art is unique within Yoruba art and globally unique in its fusion of the realistic and the arcane, the everyday and the mysterious, yet the scholarship on Ogboni art, and even on Ogboni, in general, might not go beyond twenty articles and books put together, with the only book on Ogboni art known to me being by a European, Hans Witte, and the best article on Ogboni art, intersecting with Ogboni philosophy and spirituality known to me being by Babatunde Lawal and a particularly powerful account of the origins of Ogboni, and its strategic significance in Yoruba philosophy being in Akinwumi Ogundiran's The Yoruba: A New History, those last two being Nigerians, though US migrants, and their works separated possibly by decades, suggesting the fewness of literature, generally , and scholarly literature, particularly, in the field.Edan OgboniOgboni metal sculpturesymbolizing the unity of women and men as children of EarthOgboni Philosophy of Earth and HumanityOgboni is Yoruba philosophy and spirituality's primary answer to the philosophical question of humanity's role in relation to the Earth and the unity of humanity with itself and other creatures, on account of Ogboni's primary philosophy being about veneration of the Earth in the context of the fraternity of humanity.But Ogboni 's voice is silent as various people and schools of thought weigh in on those strategic issues in the contemporary existence and future of the world.Ogboni philosophy is one of the richest in Yoruba thought on the unity of men and women as children of Earth, as attested by the symbolism of edan ogboni, the central Ogboni symbol and spiritual instrument, but the voice of Ogboni is silent in relation to such pressing issues challenging humanity.Ogboni Spirituality of Earth, Humanity and AncestorsOgboni spirituality is rich in the nexus of humanity, Earth and the ancestors, but Ogboni is silent in the global dialogue on ecosystemic harmony between humans, Earth, animals, spirits and the hereafter in the human community understood as extending beyond earthly life.The fact that without ever having been an Ogboni member, or entered into discussion of Ogboni with any member or ever observed the way of life of any Ogboni member, yet these summations of what Ogboni has to offer can be made simply from reading the very limited literature available on the subject, makes its clear Ogboni could do a lot more by taking the time to share some of its knowledge with the world.Questions on Ogboni Intellectual CultureHow informed are Ogboni members themselves about the scholarship on their school?Does Ogboni have an intellectual culture?Do they have libraries members can consult?Moving Forward in Developing Ogboni Intellectual CultureIt would be great to have articles and books published by self declared Ogboni members, their membership attested to by other members for authenticity, sharing some of their knowledge at least with the world.Each Ogboni school can employ an official historian to tell their story.Members can be encouraged to share with the world knowledge agreed upon by members.Non-Igboni researchers should be encouraged to study with Ogboni schools and individual Ogboni members, with a clear understanding of what is to be shared with these researchers and what the researchers may share with the world.The current policy of almost total silence in terms of writing is not in anyone's best interests, as priceless cultural resources are kept significantly away from the world, inadequately benefit humanity or even the local communities where the Ogboni live, their placed filled with an image of fear and claims of diabolism in relation to Ogboni in the midst of ignorance of the immense cultural wealth represented by Ogboni.From Secret Society to Esoteric Order: Esotericism as PhilosophyNote, I did not refer to Ogboni as a secret society, a term I consider obsolete given the advancement in scholarly studies about esotericism, the study of such social organizations and knowledge systems to emphasize the nature of the kind of secrecy at play, secrecy different from secrets of people's private lives or the simple withholding of information.This kind of secrecy may relate to ideas about the nature of different kinds of knowledge, knowledge which may relate to the character of the universe, knowledge of the kind suggested by the Yoruba term "awo", best understood in terms of both socially communicated knowledge and knowledge inhering in the character of the cosmos.Im happy to be better educated in relation to the claims I am making about Ogboni.--
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