I thnk this is the case of the pot calling the kettle black. If there is anybody in this forum that refer to North-South dichotomy is Mr Toyin not Shehu.
From: toyin adepoju <toyin.adepoju@googlemail.com>
Subject: Re: [dandalin-siyasa] Concensus Candidate
To: dandalin-siyasa@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, November 28, 2010, 3:42 PM
"Although Chief Aremu Mathew Okikiola Olusegun Obasanjo had tumultuous relationships with some notable people and Governments in the West, the majority out there considers him a great leader. ....because they benefitted tremendously during his reign. Shehu Abdullahi Usman"
While I do not pretend to comprehensive knowledge on this subject,the opinion expressed above looks to me more like fantasy than based on a study of actual opinion.
From the scope of comments on Obasanjo I can see on various listerves,some Yorubas despise him. It is also held that the recent installation of Aregbesloa[I hope I have the name correct] as Osun State governor in defeat of the former governor,is seen as a defeat of Obasanjo,who was instrumental in the placing for the former governor in that position.From what I gather,the former governor was PDP.Obasanjo is seen by many more as a PDP President than a Nigerian President.If the attitude to Obasanjo on Omoodua,Naijapoltics and other Nigerian centred listserves is anything to go by,it would be difficult to describe him as being seen as a Yoruba or Southern President.
It was in Obasanjo's time that the Bola Ige,a fellow Yoruba man occupying the exalted post of Attorney General of the Federation was murdered and till today there is no progress on the investigation.It is an open rumour that he was killed to prevent him from blocking PDP incursion into the South West after he had disclosed to Obasanjo that he was resigning from government to build South West political readiness for the next elections. Was Obasanjo's cabinet pro-South? Was Yaradua's cabinet pro-North? Perhaps.Perhaps not.I did not follow that closely.Its clear,though,that this regional ideology,created by the colonial masters method of amalgamating Nigeria,has been a watchword for many.I suspect,though,that a party like the PDP,to some degree,is gradually moving away from a regional focus to a party focus.It seems,though,that this party focus is not necessarily in the interests of Nigeria.The regional focus,too, is also not in the interests of Nigeria.
Thanks Paul Okojie,for your carefully thought out contribution.I am not surprised that Shehu Usman states he cant understand it.I get the impression he does not want to understand it.He seems happier with the simplistic ideology of a North-South dichotomy.
Anyway, Obasanjo is very unpopular in the north but looking at it critically why should we blame him? If the guy had used his vintage position to develop his region what rights do we have to question his judgment? After all politics is about bringing the dividends of democracy close to your people. If our northern leaders had expressed similar commitments to this region maybe we would have venerated their status to higher levels.
Shehu Usman
Usman,instead of this persistent neubuluos Obsanjo pro-South accusation,can you give us specific examples,apart from cabinet appointments,about actual development in the South in Obsanjo's tenure,in contrast to the North,that supports your opinion?
Thanks Toyin
On 28 November 2010 02:27, shehu Abdullahi usman <xammani@gmail.com> wrote: I always admire your contributions to Dandali for many reasons: neutrality, excellent syntax, cogent points and flawless grammar. This time I found your style - not the contents or the concept, but the style of typing, rather unorganized. Infact I could hardly decipher what you were trying to put across. Is that really you? Oh, please don't take offence maybe the error is emanating from my part, who knows. Do not mind me. I really had a hectic day today 'cause I attended 5 different weddings and could barely see straight. Yes, I think that is the reason. Please forgive me. Anyway, Obasanjo is very unpopular in the north but looking at it critically why should we blame him? If the guy had used his vintage position to develop his region what rights do we have to question his judgment? After all politics is about bringing the dividends of democracy close to your people. If our northern leaders had expressed similar commitments to this region maybe we would have venerated their status to higher levels. In his first tenure as the democratically 'elected President' of the Federal Republic of Nigeria, 1989-2003, Obasanjo was considered a lame duck by the West partly because they viewed him as a stooge in the hands of the northern aristocracy but largely because he had denied Chief Obafemi Awolowo the opportunity of becoming Nigerian President during the 1979 elections. When he was re-elected in 2003, Baba Iyabo pacified the West by nominating key people from his region in lucrative public and private office positions. This in turn provided additional economic impetus to the West. Although Chief Aremu Mathew Okikiola Olusegun Obasanjo had tumultuous relationships with some notable people and Governments in the West, the majority out there considers him a great leader. Why? … ....because they benefitted tremendously during his reign. Shehu Abdullahi Usman
On Sun, Nov 28, 2010 at 2:02 AM, <OKOJIEPAUL@aol.com> wrote:
Who owes the North a living? There are a number of general observations being expressed here to spark discussions. i. The idea of a Nigerian presidency, but for the North, is conceived by the overwhelming majority of members of this listserv (I think – if I am wrong, I would like to be corrected) as the way to make up for the eight arid years under Obasanjo when the North was deprived of resources. Obasanjo has been accused of developing the South (especially the South-west) at the expense of the North! ii. This is hardening into an article of faith and Dandalites believe only a president of a Northern origin can understand their situation. iii. One contributor believes the purpose of the (Northern presidency) is to develop the North at the expense of the rest of Nigeria. This individual, though in his religion is a man of peace, is ready to fight for the North's corner, he has missiles ready. iv. Another contributor, believes zoning is a totem and should be utilised for the benefit of the North. Somehow, there is a popular belief that the president for Nigeria, should in fact be for the North. v. What is running through this line of thought? It is the unspoken belief that the North is owed a living. Who by? It is never stated. Those who preach the Northern entitlement appear willing to exact this privilege at the expense of the rest of the nation. As an idea for nation building, it is alarming. vi. Let us look at some facts. The 1999 constitution specified methods for revenue distribution. Under the formula, outside out of the oil producing areas that enjoyed a 13% derivation advantage, all states received their share of the national revenue according to the legal formula. If the pull of resources was not used for local development, it is not heresy to say Obasanjo cannot be held for such a failure. Yet, the hatred of Obasanjo is visceral vii. The idea that Obasanjo developed any area during his rule is laughable. Hashim should be asked to name any Obasanjo in the south as proof of development policy at the expense of the North. viii. The truth is that Obasanjo's government was not a Nigerian government. Obasanjo did not think he was elected to serve Nigerians and their interest. Obasanjo's government was the IMF government. He was more pleased with IMF's approval than pursuing policies that would alleviate Nigeria's chronic poverty and suffering. ix. It is time Hashim and others like him accept that Obasanjo did not please any one, North or South and he did not care. You should blame Babaginda and the Northern elite who imposed him on Nigerians. x. There are two things, however, Obasanjo should take credit for: the appointment of first rate Northerners to his administration and enabling Nigeria to exit from the Paris Club. xi. So, to Dandalites may I suggest the following? a). do not make a rod for Buhari's back (should he become the next president of Nigeria – he cannot conceivably rig his presidency on behalf of the North. He will rule for the Nigerian project (development for all Nigerians) and all Dandalites should subscribe to this perspective. b)can Dandalites not operate in a hermetically sealed manner – they should let ideas migrate from other groups like Naijapolitics to stimulate an all-inclusive Nigerian discourse. c) Finally, I ask Dandalites to resist the urge to exclude people because of their heretical views. PO
Sent: Sat, 27 Nov 2010 10:36 Subject: Re: [dandalin-siyasa] Concensus Candidate | Dear Toyin, Well let me start by swallowing the bitter pill you have prescribed after reviewing my brief. I believe in B/R (Risk/Benefit ration) and as a scientist failures do not discourage me. Also note that you need to add a Bacterium to milk to create a youghourt. You in the south are fortunate or unfortunate to have had worked with the westerners, the most corrupt creation on earth, and as such were able to garner for yourself what you kept emphasising in your submission. The North has been very apprehensive of working with our colonial masters, may be because we understood them from the very beginning to be corrupt and greedy. The point here, and with emphasis, no matter the status of the previous leadership by the Northerners, the Eight years term of OBJ, provided trillion of Nigerias oil money to the South in corrupt deals. He empowered them to the detriment of all other sections of this country. Infact it was only towards the end of his tenure he mooted investing in Agriculture in order to carry the North along. I do not need to say much, but that we are at a threshold, and we will try it this one time again. I think this time we will not fail if we have not succeeded with the previous attempts.
From: toyin adepoju <toyin.adepoju@googlemail.com>
Subject: Re: [dandalin-siyasa] Concensus Candidate
To: dandalin-siyasa@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, November 26, 2010, 4:23 PM
Hashim,
Thanks for your frankness.
I am puzzled,though.I thought that most of Nigeria's leaders have been from the North? If I am right,why did they not create this Northern wealth you yearn for?
If,as you claim,economic power has stabilized in the South,why is that so? Would it be beceuase the leaders of the country have mostly come from the South?
My brother,I wont pretend to identify with your position which,at the risk of being rude,I must state I consider funny,even though chilling in the context of a quest for nationhood.
At the same time,however,I think I can see a little from your point of view.
You know what?
I would like us to examine the fact that with the tenures of Alhaji Tafawa Balewa,the influence of the late Sardauna of the First Republic,the presence of Yakubu Gowon,Shagari,Murtala Mohammed,Buhari,Babangida,Abacha,Abdulsalami,Yaradua and all the power brokers from what may be understood as the North who have played roles,some permanent roles in Nigerian government,like the OPEC strongman,Alhaji Dr. Rilwanu Lukman,along with a billionaire like Dangote and other very big boys whose names I have forgotten or dont know,along with the fact that capital of the country was moved from the coastal city of Lagos to Abuja where the Presidential villa is built in Islamic style,suggesting the sheer power of Islamic rulers in the country,at this point in history you can still claim Northern backwardness politically and economically,and yet see a Northern Presidency as a solution?
At the risk of being rude,I would suggest you are either being greedy or have missed the point or both. Northern Nigeria does not lack political power.I know little about Northern Nigeria but since your argument and that of others about its economy seems similar,I get the impression that it might be even less developed than the rest of the nation,in a country whose GDP does not seem particularly high by global standards. This might have led to even less capacity for capital accumulation among the elite,what I would interpret as your argument about Northern politicians accumulating wealth.
If a President sympathetic to this perspective of yours were to try to achieve it,how would they do it? By stockpiling oil wealth in vaults for the use of Notrthern politicians? By distributing wealth to them?You are aware,of course,that oil is your country's most important commodity and that most government income comes from it.A lot of money has been stolen in the past,by both Northern and Southern politicians but its contrbuition to development is not evident.Abacha's family was even allowed to keep some of the billions he stole and return the rest.The same for Lucky Igbinedion in Edo State.I believe it is correct to argue,though,that Northern leaders have stolen more because they have ruled for a longer period of time.And yet,an argument like yours can still emerge.That suggests the problem might not be about having a Northern leader.
Even if one has a Northern leader who identifies with your views,I have difficulty identifying how such wealth could be accumulated among Northern politicians except,perhaps through large scale distribution of resources and/or raw cash. Even then,can such wealth be sustained? Even if it were attempted,can it done with the necessary brazenness that it will not incite desperate protests and even war?
My brother,allow me to appeal to you to do the following
1. Consider abandoning the notion that the politicians have much interest in either North or South.Northern politicians have more in common with Southern politicians than with the common man in the North.
2.Investigate the sources of whatever economic power the South has and work towards emulating that in the North. While noting my general ignorance on these subjects,I suspect that the differential might be due to the greater development of a Western style civilization in the South.Globally,it seems,Islamic centred societies are struggling to work out methods of developing modern states within the context of their socio-political systems.Issues of modern education,technology,entrepreneurship,scope of availability to money,among others,are central to this.,
3.Another is the development of institutions that help to generate wealth,either by enabling investment or facilitating the kind of formal and informal education that helps one appreciate entrepreneurial possibilities.
4.Investigate the relative difference between the North and the South in entrepreneurial activity and why.
When you increase your general base for capital accumulation,then your disposable income expands.
To try to use a political arrangement that favours a section of the country against others to achieve such a goal,particularly in the absence of significant development initiative,is to either court futility or chaos.
thanks toyin
On 26 November 2010 13:42, Hashim Yusufu <hashimyusufu@yahoo.com> wrote: Noooo!!!!!!!! Paul, We have disapproved some of those theories. I am more aligned to theory of relativety, and in this case it fits perfect for my "selfishness" to create wealth for the North than for the whole of Nigeria. This is best time we have and is the time to it. We will take over, close the entire system for alsmost four terms, then open it up for competition. By then I can paly the game of throwing stones, because I have one in my hand. Let me remind you, Buharis tenure for almost two years raised the value of the Dollar rather than that of the Naira. Infact my former Governor in Kano, late Alhaji Aliyu Sabo Bakin Zuwo, Fire, of blessed memory was at the verge of creating a positive change on our people when Buhari striked and all we attempted building for our people was crushed. Please leave this, it pains. Hashim.
Sent: Fri, November 26, 2010 2:26:35 PM
Subject: Re: [dandalin-siyasa] Concensus Candidate
Dear Hashim, You may wish to speak for the North, but which North? Please provide a clear delineation of the geographical boundary which you call the North. The North has to take a chance with the rest of Nigeria, not with chancers who think the care for the North is to distribute charity to the poor on Fridays. Every Northerner deserves self-dignity and self-sufficiency which only a disciplined leadership will bring. It is wholly illusory to harbour the idea that a president for Nigeria would, secretly, be for the North. It is Nigeria or nothing - the North cannot develop without doing so in tandem with the rest of the country. There are special needs in the North caused by its past awful rulers, some of whom you have listed. To paraphrase a quote attributed to Eistein: A problem cannot be solved by the mentality that created it in the first place.You are working here on sentiments rather than on what is needed for a country with a crying need for development. Other countries have left us behind, when would we join the future? Now that Babaginda has given up his campaign and you have no stomach for Atiku, you are left with Ribadu. Let's us return to Buhari's economics. The basis of wealth creation is sound economic foundation and that is what the squandamania Babaginda inherited from Buhari. At the time of Buhari's overthrow, Nigeria's currency was at par with the US dollar and the British pound. That is the measure of the man. You can trust the economy in his hands. Buhari will not let you down - of that you can be sure. PO
-----Original Message----- From: Hashim Yusufu < hashimyusufu@yahoo.com> To: dandalin-siyasa@yahoogroups.comSent: Fri, 26 Nov 2010 11:52 Subject: Re: [dandalin-siyasa] Concensus Candidate | Paul, You have not read wide. No matter what it takes, for now my feel is that we need someone to create wealth in the North and surely it cannot be Buhari. I am not talking for all Nigeria, No! The North needs to build and prepare for the political challenges facing us and we need resources. The economic power has stabilised with the South while we have been boasting of numbers which do not make much meaning as we peogress into the global community. This the last chance for the North and we must use what we have to get the leadership, create wealth and be fully prepared for the challenges.
From: OKOJIEPAUL@aol.com <OKOJIEPAUL@aol.com>
Subject: Re: [dandalin-siyasa] Concensus Candidate
To: dandalin-siyasa@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, November 26, 2010, 12:09 PM
Dear Hashim,
Those who want radical change must face the future with intelligence. The condition of Nigeria now is no longer open to Casino government; besides, respectable nations are waiting for proof that we are serious and committed to the only solution open to us – development. Reading you, you make holding criminals to account appear to be a crime itself. This country is full of thieves and no harm will be done to recover the public monies and properties that they have converted to their personal and their families. If this is the only achievement of a Buhari administration, you only have to imagine how the national debt would be wiped out at a stroke. Then the work on the schools, the factories, the farms, employment initiatives, social support for the poor would begin. I think you malign a Buhari administration by thinking he would turn his government into thief-taking only. His vision is there for all to this – drawing from his previous incarnation: development, moral and ethical transformation, a country not in debt and self-reliant, the release of intellectual energies for creativity, and above all, a country at ease with itself. Wealth creation has to be for all sections of Nigeria, not just for a part. The problem and solution has to be looked at holistically. Dare to invent the future, take your chance with BUHARI. PO
-----Original Message----- From: Hashim Yusufu < hashimyusufu@yahoo.com> To: dandalin-siyasa@yahoogroups.comSent: Fri, 26 Nov 2010 6:36 Subject: Re: [dandalin-siyasa] Concensus Candidate | Dear Paul, I have never taken you on this page, and even if I have it was not more than one. I remenber those days in my pharmaceutics lab, when we attempt to form an emulsion; this is simply combining oil and water, we play a game and that is, we wait till the lecturer is about to mark the excercise before we run the mixture in an emulsifier, (this is a machine that will help combine the two substance and give you a milk like white product). if you are lucky the supervisor will look at your work, pass you and you have it, otherwise he may ask you to go and then he allows it to stay till in the morning before you are scored. Bet it, you may end up getting a minus not only zero, because the emulsion will break.An emulsion, a misture of water and oil requires an emulsifying agent before it can stabilise. Now let us look at Nigeria and also the piece written by John. Living in Nigeria is similar to what I have described above. We have noticed, for example, tribal rivalry only diminshes when there are inter marriages. The Hausa-Fulani have succeded in creating a single family using an emulsifying agent, and a similar attempt on the whole country has failed for as many times as it was tried. We all grew up in communities where identities matter and this applies across board, from locality to across countries. Otherwise no one will be asking where Obama comes from. This situation gives justification to quest for sectional drive in governance. I am not routing for Atiku, but for a nothern President. On your second point, I do not subscribe to the leadership of Buhari for two simple reasons. One is that he will not allow politicians to build wealth. His Government will end up chasing criminals and criminality and distributing commodities, so much that he will have no time to address the real issues that will make the Northerners become superbly wealthy and add to their numbers to drive this country. Secondly he is too rigid for a system that is struggling to come off its feet. He does not subscribe to quality but to loyalty while he himself has not adhered to that doctorine. See his case with late Abubakar Gummi and many more. For now, we in the North have no option than to 'forcefully' get the leadership of this country and create wealth amongst our communities and then we can open up to any kind of contest. You cannot run politics when you are poor. You need resources in large volumes. Infact, as for me, I will tell any Nothern President in power to remain till 2030, till we have an even playing field before we hand over power to whoever can beat us to it in a free and fair election. Period. HUY.
From: OKOJIEPAUL@aol.com <OKOJIEPAUL@aol.com>
Subject: Re: [dandalin-siyasa] Concensus Candidate
To: dandalin-siyasa@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, November 25, 2010, 11:59 PM
The General's diagnosis is spot on, the only disagreement is the pessimism. We can opt for the Rawlings option, but the configuration is different.
Party organisation in Nigeria is hopelessly under-developed and the Ciroma charades underlines the tribal lines in Nigeria's politics today. Nigeria is a nation yearning for development and the country, grotesquely, is confronted with a choice within PDP between GEJ and Atiku; besides being a Northerner, what use is Atiku to a country that wants development?
It is clear that there is a deep yearning in the North, not least, on this listserv, for a Northerner at the helm of government to succeed Yaradua (as inheritance) and barring a disaster, it is clear the person at the helm of government next year will be a Northerner and if the North have a good wish for the poor, they should provide a wrap around Buhari. This will be evidence of sound judgment.
As the General knows, in Nigeria, the revolution eats its own children - ask Chukwuma Kaduna Nzeogwu.
Does this mean good bye to socialist revolution? Certainly not, it will require a different kind of revolutionary zeal, planning and organisation and this revolution will be beholden to the masses and not the military.
PO -----Original Message----- From: jondanfulani@yahoo.com To: dandalin-siyasa@yahoogroups.comSent: Thu, Nov 25, 2010 7:39 am Subject: Re: [dandalin-siyasa] Concensus Candidate Malam Bala,
Open your historical cupboard and dust the oxidising documents therein, and you will see that sectionalism, better still regionalism has been a standard feature of our body polity.
1) Before the so-called independence the trio of NPC,CNCN, and AG were regional clusters.
2) At independence this never changed despite existence of other minor players like UMBC and NEPU.
3) In the Second Republic NPN,UPN,NPP were also regional gangs.
4) In the present dispensation it started like that with PDP as a south-South and south East party. APP now ANPP a northern party and AD now ACN as a south west party. Now the equation has changed.
In this light, our polity has been like that from Adams. The sole target of participants is advancement of interest(s) be it personal or collective. And all political climes have issues driving their body polity.
The distinguishing angle is, elsewhere it is done for the good of all. But here, its for the interest of a microscopic elites.
I still believe my unfailing spirit that we are not ready for democracy in this country. We agreed on this sham just to escape been tag of a rogue state by comity of nations.
The best way to start is by asking ourselves, are we ready for democracy? If NO is the answer, we can then say "to ye tent everybody" and roll back to the State of Nature. The survivalists of that setting will atleast start afresh and build a great nation. And those consumed will rest in peace.
Gen John Danfulani
Supreme Commander of the
Red Army Sent from my BlackBerry® Smartphone, from Etisalat. Enjoy high speed internet service with Etisalat easy net, available at all our experience centres
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2010 00:53:22 -0000 Subject: [dandalin-siyasa] Concensus Candidate
Nigerias politics in the past few months was characterized by secterian verbal attacks which almost polarized the country along regional spheres.Now that the Northern PDP has eventually did the usual selection, will this abracadabra ends?
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