Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: What says the African Union about Colonel al-Gaddafi and current events in Libya?

ogugua
what is a race?
and what do you make of appiah's rejection of it as a scientific category?
ken

On 3/4/11 2:07 PM, Anunoby, Ogugua wrote:
> Te Arabs are not a race. They are an amorphous and therefore a diverse group of different races. Arab in today's connotation does not denote an ethnic group. Arab denotes a cultural group. The Arabs are mostly people that share a common language, and sometimes a common religion.
> Northern Sudanese for example claim to be Arab. The Syrian Arab is not sure that they are. The common thread that runs through Northern Sudanese and Syrians is a shared Arabic language. It is not the Islamic religion. Some Northern Sudanese are Christian as are some Syrians. They do not therefore share a common religion but share a common language.
> I remember that my one-time Palestinian friend and room-mate, told me that the Libyans, Tunisians, Algerians, and Moroccans are not Arabs in the ethnic connotation. He said that they speak languages that at best, are bastardized and unintelligible forms of the Arabic language. My understanding them was that he was making a snobbery point. He also told me that the purest Arabs (as an ethnic group) are to be found in Yemen where he added that the purest Arabic (not the Arabic of Islam) is spoken. He also said that Northern Sudanese are not Arabs by culture only.
> There are communities that are called Shuwa Arab in Nigeria and Chad. Some Fulanis in Nigeria claim to be Arab. They claim that they migrated to West Africa from Arabia. Are these people Arabs in the ethnic sense? It is doubtful that they are.
>
> oa
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com [mailto:usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Emeagwali, Gloria (History)
> Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 9:33 AM
> To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
> Subject: RE: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: What says the African Union about Colonel al-Gaddafi and current events in Libya?
>
> It's always good to get stuff off one's chest, so to speak.
>
> A little rambling helps in that regard.
>
>
>
> Now the OIC is a regional organization not an
>
> ethnic one and even the term 'Arab' is used opportunistically
>
> to refer to ethnicity, cultural affiliation and/ or religious affiliation.
>
> So joining the 'Arab League is really not such a big deal.
>
> 'Do the arabs think they are white?'
>
>
>
> That depends. Some probably do although ethnic Arabs seem
>
> to be pigmentationally diverse- and, let us not mix up the Arabs
>
> and the Turks who colonized them, and against whom some
>
> fought in nationalist movements - in defiance of British collusion with
>
> Turkish elites.
>
>
>
> "All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a
> non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white
> has no superiority over a black nor a black has any superiority over
> white except by piety and good action. ....."
>
>
>
> This can be also interpreted as a remarkable breakthrough in
>
> race relations - in the 7th century. Interesting to note that
>
> the Nigerian Maitatsine, Muslim, activists of the 1980s
>
> considered that ' Mohammed was only an Arab.'
>
> Speaking about slavery, Christians and Muslims were deeply
>
> implicated in enslavement at various levels, and in diverse
>
> circumstances, so it is difficult to target one group or the other.
>
>
>
> "Anyone who says that Muhammed is
> Black, is killed"
>
>
>
> Let's put it this way. Should President Obama put a painting of a
>
> Black Christ on his wall right now, he may not be around for
>
> campaign 2012. But then again the Igbos you speak of would
>
> not place a Black Christ either. Heck, the only people who dared to do it
>
> thus far are the Ethiopians. (I saw numerous portrayals of a
>
> Black Christ in the churches of Lalibela as indicated in
>
> www.esnips.com/web/GloriaEmeagwali<http://www.esnips.com/web/GloriaEmeagwali>)
>
>
>
>
>
> Dr. Gloria Emeagwali
> www.africahistory.net
> www.esnips.com/web/GloriaEmeagwali
> ________________________________________
> From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com [usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Cornelius Hamelberg [corneliushamelberg@gmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 7:55 AM
> To: USA Africa Dialogue Series
> Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: What says the African Union about Colonel al-Gaddafi and current events in Libya?
>
> Re - ...."for most Arabs Islam and
> Islamic identity supersedes any other criteria."
> "....And Islam is also an identity marker for about 50% of
> the African population." So....?
>
> Dear Professor Gloria Emeagwali in excelsis,
>
> What follows is what for me are some of the implications from your
> question. Sorry about the links. I crave your indulgence just this
> once. I assure you that I am not being dead serious. The links are
> only meant as information-sharing relevant to the cause, not a paucity
> of my own knowing or thinking or powers of expression. Or meant to get
> in the way. If I had the time and inclination I'd footnote some of
> what I say, in another way.....
>
> A question that sometimes bothers me is, do the Arabs then think that
> they are White ? Or, what colour?
>
> I'm not "just kidding.".At this point in time, I don't even know if
> Morocco which does not want to be part of the African Union is
> still serious about their ambition to join the EU.
>
> This could have some implications for the whole idea of Eurabia:
>
> http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&q=Eurabia
>
> Last night I was at a little dinner party and a half famous journalist
> who I had not met before and who has been reporting from Africa,
> rushed at me to ask me "Where do you come from?"
>
> I almost told him, " From your mother's - --ä"
>
> These people!!! Not, "Hi Mr X, I'm so and so , nice weather, nice to
> meet you, what's your name ?", but live and direct, first question
> "Where are you from?" Hej, I know a nigger from Uganda.
>
> By which some a them mean, You know one nigger you know them all.
>
> Where do you come from? My only regret is that I didn't tell him "
> Planet of the monkeys".
>
> But that would have ruined the party....We shall overcome. The White
> man knows, we're coming
>
> Back to your question:
>
> So, by the time the remaining 50% of the African population has been
> Islam-ized, the rest of Africa will join the Arab League. QED.
>
> But even if 100% of Africa converted to al-Islam, I don't know about
> my good friends the Igbos, but one thing that I'm sure of is that not
> every Hon. Yoruba Man will join the Arab League.
>
> Today, apart from the nations that constitute the Arab League, the
> following African countries belong to the OIC (Organisation of Islamic
> Conference ):
>
> Benin
>
> Burkina Faso
>
> Cameroon
>
> Chad
>
> Comoros
>
> Côte d'Ivoire
>
> Djibouti
>
> Gabon
>
> Gambia
>
> Guinea
>
> Guinea-Bissau
>
> Mali
>
> Mauritania
>
> Mozambique
>
> Niger
>
> Nigeria
>
> Senegal
>
> Sierra Leone
>
> Somalia
>
> Sudan
>
> Togo
>
> Uganda
>
> http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&q=Organisation+of+Islamic+Conference
>
> Interesting to compare the OIC countries with the Africa Union
> countries.
>
> http://www.google.com/search?q=African+Union+Countries
>
> As I've already told you, even if my old hero Sheikh Osman Dan Fodio
> and all of his descendants and 100% of Africa& Africans converted to
> al-Islam, I don't know about my good friends the Igbos, but I'm sure
> that not every Hon. Yoruba Man would join the Arab League.
>
> Question for you: Why do you think that in his last sermon to his
> Muslim followers, the Prophet of Islam, salallahu alaihi wa salaam,
> thought it necessary to say ,
>
> "All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a
> non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white
> has no superiority over a black nor a black has any superiority over
> white except by piety and good action. Learn that every Muslim is a
> brother to every Muslim and that the Muslims constitute one
> brotherhood. Nothing shall be legitimate to a Muslim which belongs to
> a fellow Muslim unless it was given freely and willingly. Do not,
> therefore, do injustice to yourselves.
>
> Remember, one day you will appear before God (The Creator) and you
> will answer for your deeds. So beware, do not stray from the path of
> righteousness after I am gone."
>
> He had to draw particular attention to these aspects of life lived by
> Muslims in the prevailing conditions of his own life time because,
> obviously there must have been certain racist/ racial currents of
> feeling among some of his disciples who may have considered themselves
> White and superior to those they considered Black and inferior - and
> Vice-versa.
> We cannot divorce ourselves from the history of racism - and of modern
> world slavery of which Professor Toyin Falola has written so much -
> and I'm still reading him. We cannot dis-count the history of the
> USA, and we certainly cannot overlook or neglect to look at the past
> 1,500 years history of Islam and of pre-Islamic Arab slavery which is
> even mentioned in the Bible : Genesis 37, 23-28 which records Joseph
> being sold to Ishmaelites (Arabs):
>
> http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Bible/Genesis37.html
>
> In his, "The Destruction of Black Civilization" Chancellor Williams
> claims that the Black man arrived in the Hijaz in the same way that
> he arrived in North America in large numbers: Through slavery. The
> history of Islam's first Muezzin, Bilal ibn Rabah al-Habashi- with
> whom many African converts to Islam tend to identify, is a well
> documented history - I've read his autobiography. Even after being
> freed from slavery he continues to refer to himself in terms of utter,
> abject humility.
>
> http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&q=Bilal+(+Islam's+first+Muezzin
>
> Africa: Arabs, slavery and Islam:
>
> http://www.google.com/#hl=en&sugexp=ldymls&xhr=t&q=Africa%3A+Arabs%2C+slavery+and+Islam
>
> The slave revolt in Basra ( Southern Iraq) is well documented and
> I've met some of their dark-skinned descendants who are today fervent
> adherents of Shia Islam and we've talked about it.
>
> http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&q=Slave+Revolt+in+Basra
>
> There are even a few famous paintings depicting White women from
> places like Turkey being auctioned in the slave market in Cairo where
> they fetched a good price, as as late as the end of the 19th
> century.....:
>
> http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&q=White+women+sold+in+slave+market+in+Cairo
>
> The institution of slavery in North America and the Caribbean did not
> only create a sense of colour hierarchy in those parts of the world.
> (""If you're white, you're right. If you're brown, stick around. If
> you're black, get way back". ) This also happened in the early
> heartland of Islam and North Africa. In more recent times the
> controversy as to whether the Prophet of Islam was black, has
> persisted. It once got to the point a few centuries ago, when a n
> Islamic ruler issued an edict: "Anyone who says that Muhammed is
> Black, is killed" - Not "will be killed", but "is killed" - that's
> instantaneity for you. What is at stake is not only the possibility of
> historical truth being distorted but also for the racists, the
> ultimate insult would be be that it was thought that he was Black....:
>
> http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&q=Anyone+who+says+that+Muhammad+is+black+is+killed
>
> Black as a metaphor in the Qur'an tells a story. Consider the day of
> Judgement:
>
> http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&q=Quran+:on+that+day+their+faces+will+be+black
>
> For me the question of which colour was the prophet of Islam ,
> salallahu alaihi wa salaam is easily answered. Under the hot Arabian
> sun at Khum e-Ghadir, there are several reports :
>
> http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&q=Could+see+the+white+under+the+prophet's+armpits
>
> I should just like to add that in my personal experience of Arabs (men
> and women) I have never encountered racism. When I say Arabs, I mean
> Arabs, not Iranians or Turks or Pakistanis.
>
> I am aware that Arabs are very happy and proud about the fact that the
> Prophet of Islam was Arab. And that the Qur'an was revealed in the
> Arabic tongue.
>
> We cannot deny this, and that pride and assurance about the language
> of the Qu'ran, is not the equivalent of racism.
> I was once in the company of an Egyptian Lady in Alexandria, I had
> dinner with her and her family during most of the month of Ramadan,
> anyway there we were, walking towards the post office when we alighted
> on a group of Dinka people ( from Southern Sudan) who had been
> granted asylum in Egypt ( as I found out a few seconds later).I went
> over to talk to them, and she asked me why I had done so. Not to talk
> to strangers/ people I don't know? I told her that I went over to talk
> to them because they are Black. She did not say anything after that.
>
> The only quarrel that I've had with an Arab and it almost got nasty,
> was when I corrected my Egyptian friend who was speaking of the future
> without prefacing it with " Insha Allah" and he turned to me with some
> anger and said, " So, you want to teach me Arabic?"
>
> Other discussions from time to time, with even members of Hamas and
> Hezbollah, about Israel& the Arabs, the Shia etc., have been
> conducted within logical limits and without any trace of race-ism...
> Respect begets respect.
>
>
>
> On Mar 3, 9:58 pm, "Emeagwali, Gloria (History)"
> <emeagw...@mail.ccsu.edu> wrote:
>> '....for most Arabs Islam and
>> Islamic identity supersedes any other criteria.'
>>
>> '....And Islam is also an identity marker for about 50% of
>> the African population." So....?
>>
>> GE
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com [mailto:usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Cornelius Hamelberg
>> Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 7:17 AM
>> To: USA Africa Dialogue Series
>> Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: What says the African Union about Colonel al-Gaddafi and current events in Libya?
>>
>> Thinking of this joke:
>>
>> "When Professor Albert Einstein published his sensational Theory of
>> Relativity, everyone spoke of the genius who had shaken the entire
>> world of science. At the time Einstein said, " Should my theory be
>> proved valid, then Germany and France will fight over me. Germany will
>> say that I'm German and France will say that I'm a world citizen.
>> Should the theory not be proven true, Germany and France will still
>> fight over me. France will say that I'm a German and Germany will say
>> that I'm a Jew."
>>
>> Cornelius, will of course defer to the sociology professor's
>> succinctness and would like to prod his knowledge reserves for yet a
>> further thought provoking opinion
>>
>> The truth is, I am not happy with Nasser being described as "the Pan
>> Africanist par excellence" just because he thought that Egyptian
>> civilisation was African ( even pre-Arab?) or because he supported
>> anti-colonial struggles. But he does deserve the title for his merely
>> thinking " Egyptian, Arab, African".
>>
>> Otherwise ,
>>
>> Nasser as the Pan-Arab Nationalist par excellence, yes, even a great
>> anti-Semite or an anti-Semite par excellence, without a doubt, but not
>> "the Pan-Africanist par excellence " - and I do not believe that
>> racism has a place in Pan-Africanism. (smile)
>>
>> http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&q=Nasserism
>>
>> http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&q=Nasser+as+pan+africanist
>>
>> Still thinking about Muammer al-Gaddafi and the idea of a United
>> States of Africa
>>
>> Ok Nasser who was a secularist, identifies himself and is a
>> spokesperson for those who identify themselves as simultaneously
>> Egyptian, Arab, and African, but I'm afraid that you have left out a
>> most essential component of Arab identity - for most Arabs Islam and
>> Islamic identity supersedes any other criteria. Given that scale of
>> values with Islam at the top, a Muslim Arab would say that he is
>> Muslim and Arab or Arab and Muslim - and most certainly accept Hamza
>> Yusuf, his fellow Muslim from California as his brother.
>>
>> An Egyptian Arab Christian is not less nationalistic than an Egyptian
>> Arab Christian....
>>
>> Since Nasser did not attach so much importance to religion in his
>> rather secular ideology of Nasserism, he is at variance with the
>> ethos which provides the dynamo and impetus of the Muslim
>> Brotherhood, Hamas and their Charter/ covenant, al-Qaeda, the Kalifa
>> group, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad and all the other Islamic groups who
>> want to resurrect the UMMAH and to expand it to incorporate the rest
>> of the world that has not yet been converted to Islam, and is
>> presently outside of the pale/ jurisdiction of Islam.
>>
>> So I have never for one moment thought that Gaddafi's goal has been
>> merely the United States of Africa. Perhaps just that could be
>> achievable within his life time, and looking beyond the Suez canal he
>> must have dreamt of a landmass he could call the United States of
>> Africa and Arabia, sometime....
>>
>> A classic :http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&q=The+Arab+Mind
>>
>> On Mar 3, 12:56 am, "Prof. Alfred Zack-Williams"
>> <a...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>>> Cornelius,
>>> You are quite right. Gamal Abdel Nasser, the Pan-Africanist par excellence
>>> described Egyptians as having three concentric circle of consciousness (read
>>> identity) Egyptian, Arab and African. Multiple identity is not unusual in a
>>> cosmopolitan hybridised world; except if we want to return to essentialism,
>>> the fountain of exclusiveness.
>>> zack
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
>>> [mailto:usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Cornelius Hamelberg
>>> Sent: 02 March 2011 13:54
>>> To: USA Africa Dialogue Series
>>> Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: What says the African Union
>>> about Colonel al-Gaddafi and current events in Libya?
>>> I should say that North African Arabs by virtue of being part of the
>>> population of mainland Africa , are both Africans and Arabs. It's a question
>>> of choice, how they would like to identify themselves.
>>> The trouble could be that some Africans want to believe that an African has
>>> to be black, like Robert Mugabe and not like Andre Brink or Alan Paton or
>>> Nadine Gordimer or Muammer al-Gaddafi
>>> I have Jewish friends from Libya, Tunisia, Turkey, Morocco, Brazil, Mexico,
>>> Algeria, South Africa, Yemen, Ethiopia, Austria other places, who are no
>>> less Jewish or less Yemenite etc.for being born or bred in these countries.
>>> I do have friends from Libya and Algeria who have dark skins and Negroid
>>> features but are Arab by language, birth and culture. An Englishman who was
>>> either joking or thought that he was putting me down said he thought that I
>>> was from Agadir in Morocco. My youngest half Scottish Brother Michael was
>>> mistaken for an Imam from Morocco, in London.
>>> I have associated with Arabs for the past twenty five years and there is not
>>> a single racist incident for me to report. On the contrary I feel that I
>>> have always been given some preferential treatment ( and valuable presents
>>> which I have sometimes refused.
>>> We've got to be logical here. As logical as Yusuf ben Yochanan who started
>>> one of his lectures by declaring that since the Prophet Moses was born and
>>> bred in Egypt, it would not be politically incorrect to identify him as
>>> African. The point is of course debatable.
>>> Another logician, Khalid al-Mansour defines European as meaning white, and
>>> coming from Europe.
>>> Understandably, because of racism, race and colour is something that a lot
>>> of people get emotional about. That being the case I should like to once
>>> more refer to the Prophet of Islam , salallahu alaihi wa salaam's last
>>> khutbah/ sermon in which he said,
>>> "All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a
>>> non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has
>>> no superiority over a black nor a black has any superiority over white
>>> except by piety and good action. Learn that every Muslim is a brother to
>>> every Muslim and that the Muslims constitute one brotherhood. Nothing shall
>>> be legitimate to a Muslim which belongs to a fellow Muslim unless it was
>>> given freely and willingly. Do not, therefore, do injustice to yourselves. "
>>> So there, we have it.
>>> Right now there's all the hysteria about other media reports , true or
>>> false, that "Arabs killing Black Africans" you would think that we are on
>>> the brink of a war between Africa South of the Sahara and North Africa (I'm
>>> sure that if such a war erupted Muammer al-Gaddafi would be one of the first
>>> in North Africa to want to make peace and so would the rest of the African
>>> Union.
>>> The situation in Libya is a little complicated right now, since we are
>>> informed by so many media outlets that Gaddafi has hired mercenaries from
>>> places like Niger, Burkina Faso and Zimbabwe to fight for him.
>>> This could mean that the innocent African guest workers who are not fighting
>>> for anybody, neither for Gaddafi nor for those against Colonel Gaddafi
>>> especially if armed could be easily mistaken for Gaddafi mercenaries. And
>>> black Libyans are likewise in the same danger zone of suspicion - identified
>>> by colour.
>>> In other words black people are liable to be caught in the dangerous cross
>>> fire.
>>> The immediate solution would be for Africans to make themselves invisible
>>> for the time being.
>>> The Long time solution, could take a little more time of consciousness
>>> raising.
>>> Long or short, the rule of law still has to prevail in all circumstances in
>>> both peacetime and during times of war....
>>> Still wishing the best for Libya, and Africa:
>>> http://www.thelocal.se/blogs/corneliushamelberg/2011/03/02/from-stock...
>>> -few-separate-thoughts-about-libya/
>>> On Mar 2, 5:10 am, kenneth harrow<har...@msu.edu> wrote:
>>>> dear kofi
>>>> your questions do not lend complexity or nuance, they are themselves
>>>> questions that beg the question of how a revolutionary leader can
>>>> become an authoritarian dictator; they also beg the question of how
>>>> the one who takes these questions seriously can aspire to complexity
>>>> in political discourse.
>>>> it aint either/or, with us anti-imperialists or with the imperialists.
>>>> the world was probably never quite like that; now this is a nostalgic,
>>>> and ultimately anti-progressive stance, anti-progressive set of questions.
>>>> i think of birago diop. one of the heroes of senegalese literature,
>>>> one of its most accomplished authors and minds. do you know his
>>>> history, his life story? it is interesting: the vet, the student, the
>>>> administrator, the ambassador, the author, the source of inspiration.
>>>> many tales, with supreme nuance, graced his pen. maman caimans with
>>>> babies who refused to learn from her, and paid the price.
>>>> that would be the story i would want to read to answer these questions:
>>>> what parable would maman caiman have had to say? then there could be a
>>>> discussion.
>>>> but your questions, and implied answers, do not leave any such room.
>>>> the elbow out reflection, supply the answer before the question had
>>>> time to end with its question mark.
>>>> kofi, put out a question we can really ask ourselves, so that instead
>>>> of a riposte we could have a real discussion. like, what was maman
>>>> caiman about.
>>>> i bet my friend cornelius would have things to say about maman caiman,
>>>> about the walo and moors and their fight, and how the babies became a
>>>> balm to heal the wounds of the moors' prince
>> ...
>>
>> read more »
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--
kenneth w. harrow
distinguished professor of english
michigan state university
department of english
east lansing, mi 48824-1036
ph. 517 803 8839
harrow@msu.edu

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