Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Religious Intolerance and Islamic Extremists

dear segun
i think we are in agreement.
as for the question of "who crucified jesus," perhaps it might be rephrased, who was responsible for the crucifixion, and there i think we'd have to agree both roman authorities (represented by pontius pilate and the empire) and jewish zealots (represented by herod and his court).
but the real answer should go deeper: the crucifixion of jesus was the event of his sacrifice: all of christianity turns on the meaning of that sacrifice. he had to be sacrificed in order to absolve mankind of its sins.
so to assign legal blame for a transcendental act of sacrifice is to misread the meaning of the act.
if you see my point, we'd have to say god was responsible because he "gave his son," meaning, gave him to be sacrificed.
ken

On 9/30/12 12:19 PM, Segun wrote:

Ken; 

I sympathize  with you on the intolerance response from Christians who have hatred for the Jews because they killed Jesus. Jesus had to die in a painful manner from the prejudice of his people and their intolerance. Jesus had the freedom to say what he thought would be beneficial to his people but unfortunately it was misunderstood and he was betrayed by one of his disciples which subsequently led to his crucifixion. "He came for his own and his own received him not but as many as receive him to them he gave power to be the children of God." Jesus had a mission and to accomplish it, he had to die and the death had the involvement of the religious zealots of his people. 

Nobody, in my view, should avenge the killing of Jesus by his people on innocent Jews who knew nothing about the the crucifixion of Jesus.  

Ken, the Christians today know better particularly in my own part of the world-Africa that it is sheer religious bigotry and stupidity to kill any Jew in their midst because his ancestors killed Jesus the Christ. 

It is the same level of tolerance and respect for human dignity and freedom that other religious faiths like your parochial minded people and Muslims ought to emulate and stop violence and killings for any religious provocation. 

I want to acknowledge the right view of Prof. Dasylva on his contribution because that is the truth. 

Segun Ogungbemi. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 29, 2012, at 2:10 PM, kenneth harrow <harrow@msu.edu> wrote:

who did the crucifying? do you realize that by stating the jews crucified christ you unleash attacks on jews?
maybe this is something only jews really care about. i clearly remember from my youth the verbal assault on us jewish kids as christkillers when we walked past the neighborhood parochial school. it is a label used to justify attacking jews across the centuries.
what strikes me is how easily this slander passes through the lips of those evoking the death of jesus, a period in which the romans ruled over palestine  and crushed jewish revolt twice.
i taught western humanities for many years, and at one point taught chaucer's prioress's tale. here is the wiki synopsis. when you read it, when you realize how jews were attacked across the centuries in europe for having killed christ, you might understand why i reacted to the words that the jews crucified christ:

The Prioress's Tale:
The story begins with an invocation to the Virgin Mary, then sets the scene in Asia, where a community of Jews live in a Christian city. A seven-year-old school-boy, son of a widow, is brought up to revere Mary. He teaches himself the first verse of the popular Medieval hymn 'Alma Redemptoris Mater' ("Nurturing Mother of the Redeemer"); though he does not understand the words, an older classmate tells him it is about Mary. He begins to sing it every day as he walks to school through the Jews' street.

Satan, 'That hath in Jewes' heart his waspe's nest', incites the Jews to murder the child and throw his body on a dungheap. His mother searches for him and eventually finds his body, which begins miraculously to sing the 'Alma Redemptoris'. The Christians call in the provost of the city, who has the Jews drawn by wild horses and then hanged. The boy continues to sing throughout his burial service until the holy abbot of the community asks him why he is able to sing. He replies that although his throat is cut, he has had a vision in which Mary laid a grain on his tongue and he will keep singing until it is removed. The abbot removes the grain and he dies.

ken

On 9/29/12 7:11 AM, dasylvang@yahoo.com wrote:

It was the Roman colonial government that was in power then, but the complainants were indeed "Judaism zealots" led by the High/chief  priest and other judaism clerics who were intolerant of the new order that Jesus went about teaching: "to fear and obey God, to have a forgiving spirit, to love one's neighbor as one's self, to pursue holy living, to know the Truth and be set free by the Truth, and finally, to care for the needy." The intolerant  religious extremists went as far as hiring a crowd to prevail on the Roman judicary to crucify Jesus the Christ. 

So Segun was perfectly in order.

Ademola Omobewaji DASYLVA, PhD,
Professor of African Literature & Oral Literature;
Coordinator, Ibadan Cultural Studies Group,
Room 68, Faculty of Arts,
University of Ibadan,
Ibadan, Nigeria. 

Visiting Professor,
Department of English,
Redeemer's University,
Km 46, Lagos-Ibadan Express Way,
Ogun State, Nigeria.
Mobile: +234 (0)802 350 4755/ +234 (0)706 226 4090

 Web:arts.ui.edu.ng/aodasylva
E-mail: a.dasylva@ibadanculturalstudiesgroup.org
a.dasylva@mail.ui.edu.ng
dasylvang@yahoo..com

Sent from Samsung Mobile

-------- Original message -------- Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Religious Intolerance and Islamic Extremists From: kenneth harrow To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com CC:

i thought jesus was crucified by the romans
ken

On 9/28/12 11:44 AM, Segun wrote:
> I have pondered very deeply on religious intolerance in recent time which is not a new phenomenon. What is new is the unnecessary killings that the world has witnessed in the last twenty years particularly the Islamic extremism with violence in several parts of the world.
> Religious intolerance is a symptom of religious arrogance that has its historical antecedence documented in the historical background of Judaism, Christianity and Islam. Jesus the Christ  was crucified by the zealots of Judaism. When Christianity became a dominant religion in Western Europe, their followers became intolerant of any form of criticisms. The Bible was held sacred and anyone who dare to criticize its teachings or doctrines would have himself to blame. Galileo who, from his scientific knowledge, gave a contrary view about the universe was put in inquisition by the Church where he died. I am aware that Pope John Paul apologized for that extremist practice of the Church at that time but the damage cannot be completely assuaged.
> The history of Islam manifested that sense of intolerance when Prophet Muhammad felt that the traditional religion of his people was idolatrous. His religious arrogance was challenged by his people and he had to run to Medina for safety. If he had not run for safety in Medina his people would probably have killed him and there would not have been any religion called Islam. The intolerance of his people and his intolerance of other faiths subsequently became part of the canon of Islam he founded. His Jihad and the call to eliminate infidels is the height of his religious intolerance.
> If Prophet Muhammad criticized the religious beliefs of his people why should Islam not be criticized?
> Christian missionaries came to Africa and in many ways showed their intolerance for the indigenous religious beliefs and practices. As a matter of fact  indigenous religion was given derogatory names and terminologies. Some of them called the indigenous religion of Africans primitive, idolatry, paganism etc. In spite of these insults on the holy order of traditional Africans the Church have not been attached by the people whose religion they have desecrated.
> Muslims from time to time have poured invectives on traditionalists. They are labeled as infidels and yet no Muslims have been killed or their property destroyed. Now, why is it that the Muslims feel offended when they are criticized or their religion is ridiculed by others? They have no reason to be upset to the point of killing innocent people who have nothing to do with a film or magazine produced in the US or France.
> Knowledge comes from self evaluation and criticisms from others. They are challenges that should not be ignored. Religious beliefs have to be subjected to criticisms or even ridicule and when  critics are tired of their blasphemous and provocative statements they will give up the "fight".
> Let us allow freedom of speech and expression to thrive because that is one of the cornerstones of knowledge and development.
> Muslims must learn to wear the mantle of tolerance and embrace dialogue in any seeming provocations from any part of the global village.
> Segun Ogungbemi.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>

--
kenneth w. harrow
distinguished professor of english
michigan state university
department of english
619 red cedar road
room C-614 wells hall
east lansing, mi 48824
ph. 517 803 8839
harrow@msu.edu

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--   kenneth w. harrow   distinguished professor of english  michigan state university  department of english  619 red cedar road  room C-614 wells hall  east lansing, mi 48824  ph. 517 803 8839  harrow@msu.edu

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--   kenneth w. harrow   distinguished professor of english  michigan state university  department of english  619 red cedar road  room C-614 wells hall  east lansing, mi 48824  ph. 517 803 8839  harrow@msu.edu