Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Okigbo - Mythmaker & towncrier at Heavensgate

"Go on in your labour of love of churning out your poems."
-------Olayinka.

From now on, I would be "churning out" other peoples' poems since
plagiarism is dead. My poems, which you appreciated on this forum at
least on one occasion, would now be "churned out" to the folks at the
motor parks, who would at least mention me as the author when quoting
the poems. I heard the other day that a Nigerian writer from Canada
was in Lagos doing post-doctoral research in "urban narratives". When
it finally narrows down to "Motor Park narratives", I would be
singing; "Oh happy day!"

CAO.


On 12 Mar, 22:32, Olayinka Agbetuyi <yagbet...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I quite appreciatec your parody of my position.  Go on in your labour of love of churning out your poems.  I never intended that anyone profits by verbatim reproduction of the work of others without any value added and no credit of source
>
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> > Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 10:17:14 -0700
> > Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Okigbo - Mythmaker & towncrier at Heavensgate
> > From: chidi.op...@gmail.com
> > To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
>
> > "I think you missed the thrust of my response, which is what
> > constitutes and what ought to constitute right and wrong of the
> > matter.  You seem to focus on what IS as opposed to my emphasis on
> > what ought to be, regarding the position of the law on artistic
> > writings, but you are perfectly entitled to your take on the issue".
> > ----------Olayinka.
>
> > Until what ought to constitute right and wrong of the matter (what
> > ought to be) is settled, what constitutes right and wrong (what is)
> > should continue to prevail. Okigbo's defenders in my opinion, are
> > seeking to redefine plagiarism and until they succeed in doing that,
> > the man stands guilty of the offence, going by the present definition
> > (what is).
>
> > CAO.
>
> > "I refer you again to Obi Nwakamma's problematisation of 'plagiarism.'
> > I quite enjoyed it".
> > ---------Olayinka.
>
> > My take on that is that there is no more need for me to bother myself
> > writing poems, all I need to do now is to wait, as soon as Obi
> > Nwakanma releases the Poem he said he is working on, I will copy it
> > verbatim, put my name on it and publish it without giving him credit.
> > Oh la la, the good days are here.
>
> > CAO
>
> > On 12 Mar, 16:55, Olayinka Agbetuyi <yagbet...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > CAO:
>
> > > I think you missed the thrust of my response, which is what constitutes and what ought to constitute right and wrong of the matter.  You seem to focus on what IS as opposed to my emphasis on what ought to be, regarding the postition of the law on artistic writings, but you are perfectly entitled to your take on the issue.
>
> > > I do not pander to Okigbo's infallibility.  Like Freud, the fact that he did a series of re-writing of his poetry means he is the first to admit to his own fallibility and endless quest for improvements.  The idea that his earliest critics are not well read is simply not true.  I maintain that Okigbo deliberately left those great literary messages in his poetry for posterity, so that decades later some people might not say it was impossible for him to write such poetry having not been a graduate of English or the literary arts.  These are deliberate footprints of the path trodden by his mind.  He wants people to see what he has read.
>
> > > I refer you again to Obi Nwakammas problematisation of 'plagiarism.' I quite enjoyed it.
>
> > > > Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 04:48:46 -0700
> > > > Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Okigbo - Mythmaker & towncrier at Heavensgate
> > > > From: chidi.op...@gmail.com
> > > > To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
>
> > > > Olayinka,
> > > > You do not seem to me to be making a distinction between borrowing and
> > > > stealing(may be my motor park mentality is to be blamed). You also
> > > > seem to me to be suggesting that because certain illegalities are
> > > > condoned by a certain group of people, other groups must also condone
> > > > illegalities(This motor park mentality again). You also(may be
> > > > unknowingly) threw up the usual myth of Christopher Okigbo
> > > > infallibility.
>
> > > > Okigbo's accusers, going by the evidences they presented, accused the
> > > > man of plagiarism(and we all know what plagiarism is, don't we?), but
> > > > so far the Okigbo defenders have not been able to convincingly debunk
> > > > the allegation.
>
> > > > In one of my previous posts, I said that the problem with the Okigbo
> > > > narrative is that too many scholars wrote too many eulogies on
> > > > Okigbo(not actually based on deep researches), before the bubble
> > > > bursted and that these defences and conspiracies of silence are
> > > > efforts to preserve their credibility.
>
> > > > Finally, I do not think that adhering to the provisions of the law
> > > > would amount to writers inviting lawyers into their practice.
>
> > > > Be well always my brother
>
> > > > CAO.
>
> > > > On Mar 12, 11:33 am, Olayinka Agbetuyi <yagbet...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > CAO:
> > > > > We had this debate before and my position then was to refer forumiites to a Barthesian,contra Anglo-French critical perrspective summed up in Barthe's S/Z: Collective ownership of language by all of humanity both the departed and the present from which each individual use is a borrowing.  Barthes notion of 'voices off stage' that influences discourses.  I suppose this was what WS was getting at  in the piece quoted by Biko.  Another useful way to look at it is to compare such verbal art to the practices of the collage artists- a form of experimentation in verbal collage if you may.  Okigbo was well aware of these movements during his life, and hence hiis inclusion of Picasso's Guernica in his poetry.  We may see Okigbo, in this light as one of the foremost scholars in Africa on the interrelationship of the arts.
> > > > > Another way of viewing the creative practice of Okigbo in this regard and Yambo Ouloguem (both of whom I have read and taught, although I have not read, I confess, Beyala to include her,but if those who have read her think, think there is a strong parallel with the earlier two can exculpate her in that regard) is to interpret their creative style as the art of the bricolleur.  Bticollage was popularized by Benjamininian followers and the Frankfurt school of literary criticism.
> > > > > To suggest that Okigbo actually intended to 'fraudulently' deceive the reader by scurrilously inserting segments which he thought readers and learned literary contemporaries like J.P. Clark, WS, and Achebe would not discover is to insult his intelligence and  memory.  I am suggesting that the insertions were deliberately placed there so that learned critical scholars can discover them and reflect on the creative possibilities such artistic techniques can open up.
> > > > > I was listening to an interview of Dionne Warwick just before Xmas, which showed that musicians are not really perturbed about this plagiarism business which purveyors of ossified words on pages are so concerned about.  She  decribed how several musicians would sing exactly the same song after it had been sung by others before and take ownership of the song and nobody says O! thats Michael Jacksons  song she is singing.  I listened to another talk by Donny Osmond in which he said the song 'one Bad Apple' which was sung by MJ was originally written for him and another song originally written for MJ shot him (Donny) into prominence.  Dusty Springfield's  'Son of a Preacher Man' was first sung by another artist before it was popularized and owned by Dusty.  Do I need to include 'And I would Always Love You' by Dolly Parton and .Whitney.. Who of the two is the rightful owner of the song?  Jet Flight?  One could go on and on...Did these artistes write by-liners on the albums to show who first sang them to defend them against charges of plagiarism? The point bears restative: art is not an essay, or book of critical essays; of course, conversely, discourses can be artistic!
> > > > > On the final note of lawyers, If lawyers will not invite artistes to define how law should be practised, why should lawyers or publishers dictate to artistes what art is and what should be included and excluded?
> > > > > Olayinka Agbetuyi
>
> > > > > > Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 06:23:10 -0700
> > > > > > Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Okigbo - Mythmaker & towncrier at Heavensgate
> > > > > > From: chidi.op...@gmail.com
> > > > > > To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
>
> > > > > > "One regrets to have missed this debate since Im currently working on
> > > > > > Okigbo right now as I have off and on for three decades.  i like the
> > > > > > phrase weaving the material into new product which requires talent.
> > > > > > That was precisely what Okigbo did in all his 'liftings' from the Timi
> > > > > > of Ede's royal chant to other global iftings.  Again I say it is not
> > > > > > plagiarism since it is not anessay and since he did not simply copy
> > > > > > the whole works (or most of it -lawyers and publishing houses will
> > > > > > have a different view) and merely stamped his name on the cover.
> > > > > > Phrases are re-inserted in different narrative contexts to
> > > > > > demonstrates, perhaps that the ultimate meanings in communicative
> > > > > > peaces are not always necessarily self-evident.  the same phrase or
> > > > > > sentence can mean different things in different contexts.  Therein
> > > > > > lies the Okigbo genius".
> > > > > > -------Olayinka Agbetuyi
>
> > > > > > Olayinka,
> > > > > > The weaved material must have a uniqueness that would make rewards for
> > > > > > and the protection of the talent of the weaver not only a legal but
> > > > > > also a moral imperative.
>
> > > > > > The weaved material may however, influence the weaving of a similar
> > > > > > material, but with its own uniqueness. In plagiarism(Okigbo's case),
> > > > > > that uniqueness is lacking and the rewards for the talent of the
> > > > > > supposed weaver are obtained fraudulently.
>
> > > > > > You made reference to lawyers. My opinion on that is that Literature
> > > > > > should not operate in a state of lawlessness. By the way, what is the
> > > > > > point in producing a literary work that would not reach and continue
> > > > > > to reach the consumers because the law would not let it?
>
> > > > > > CAO.
>
> > > > > > On Mar 10, 10:10 pm, Olayinka Agbetuyi <yagbet...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > One regrets to have missed this debate since Im currently
>
> ...
>
> read more »

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