Re: FW: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Dr. Ben Carson on the race issue in the US

agreed

On 9/29/15 3:16 PM, Anunoby, Ogugua wrote:

Yes there are. Faith in the American dream, in capitalism… is not the problem…. Many people do. It is just that the default objective of many CRs, perhaps a majority of them, seems to be the maintenance and sustenance of the ascendency of one community in society at the expense

of others. They seem to have a sense of entitlement to special privileges that are based in part on historical injustices. They would rather give than share.

 

oa   

 

From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com [mailto:usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of kenneth harrow
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2015 9:07 AM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: FW: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Dr. Ben Carson on the race issue in the US

 

i mostly agree ogugua; you have to add that there are black people who have faith in the american dream, in capitalism as the best system, and that they can work within the system for uplift....
k

On 9/28/15 11:56 PM, Anunoby, Ogugua wrote:

It is possible to be an "authentic" black person and a conservative republican (CR). It is difficult to be though.

The CR position on many issues of public interest is based on the denial or rejection of the history of race relations in the country, the evident consequences on black people, and how both of the above have helped to shaped the reality of race relations and the injustices that continue. The CR's rhetoric on the law and race based disadvantage of black people for example, creates a false narrative that demonizes correct depiction of the reality as race-bating. Black people who try to be CRs are "forced" to not only accept the denials and rejections but to go further- profess and defend them rather vociferously. They claim for example that there is no difference between the killing an unarmed black man in the street by a police officer who is sworn to protect him and is well compensated, and the killing of an unarmed black man in a neighborhood shoot-out by criminal black men. Most people of sound mind paying attention know what the truth is.

 

oa

From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com [mailto:usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of kenneth harrow
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2015 7:41 PM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: FW: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Dr. Ben Carson on the race issue in the US

 

samuel
are you imagining that one cannot be a black person and a conservative republican?
or an "authentic" black person and a conservative republican? or that the only space for black people here is with the dems? or what? there are many radical people on the list who would argue republicans and democrats are equal failures for real black needs, that they prop up american dominant values, etc

as for "authenticity," one day when i am less busy i will happily post my own strong distaste for that term, but that is another day. (in the old existential days, it was another matter)
ken

On 9/28/15 3:33 PM, Samuel Zalanga wrote:

He is playing  a "role." The problem with human beings in many types of societies, but particularly in advanced modernity is that it is sometimes difficult to figure out what is authentic about a human being. To illustrate to my students in social theory how this represents part of the crisis of modernity, I ask them how can they be sure that when I am teaching, it is the "real or authentic" me that is teaching or just a professorial persona, i.e., just playing a role which any person with similar training and skills can. When people are in a role situation, it is amazing how the dynamics of the role can shape the person's behavior and indeed, sometimes, his or her moral and ethical choices. We know that even conscience is not developed in social vacuum.

Moreover, who knows whether Ben Carson has really sat down to reflect much about himself and do so with the help of others. Getting high level of education is not a guarantee that someone has gone through that kind of reflection. Some people are educated but they are so much in love with themselves that when they look at themselves in the mirror, they want to hug themselves.  Modern day education in many instances is about analyzing  one or another person or issue (i.e., externally focused on things), but not much about introspection, or self-interrogation or reflecting deeply about oneself.

To get the situation even more complicated, if one is going to reflect on him or herself, one social theorist says there are different pieces to it. There is first who you are, then second, there is how you think about who you think you are. These are two different things. But more problematic, the third, is the fact that for a person to think about who he or she is, he or she cannot do so directly without going through some categories of mediation. These categories or mediation are not produced by the individual and although the individual can choose which category of mediation to use in understanding himself or herself, the choice process does not take place in random or in social vacuum. There are social and institutional constraints and parameters.

What is even of great concern in complicating the situation is that people may be in the same society and situation but choose different categories of mediation through which to understand themselves, because they socially construct different meaning out of it.

So figuring out Ben Carson is as much a project as figuring out ourselves. Part of the problem also is that in figuring ourselves out, sometimes there is a part that is like an abyss, and we do not want to look into that abyss because we are not pleased with what we see about ourselves or who we think we are, and we will do much in order to distract ourselves.

We will not know who the authentic Ben Carson is by focusing on his presidential role,  just we will not figure out what is authentic about a professor by just focusing on his or her professorial role. In my view, what applies to Ben Carson applies to all other presidential candidates. The fact that Donal Trump wants to increase taxes on the rich does not really get us to his authentic self in terms of whether he is saying this because of a genuine commitment to social justice or just as a way of persuading people to get him to the White House.

The worst thing is that many have abandoned the project of even trying to know the authentic person or trying to be authentic because they see little value in that.  More energy is directed at what sort of role people can play so as to get they want? Even in religious leadership we see this problem manifesting in huge proportion. The "consumer taste" of the religious consumers plays an important role in shaping the "product" produced by the religious organization, it beliefs, doctrines, sermons and policies, which often change with consumer taste, else they lose market share.

 If we cannot ever reach the authentic person in our world today or that many have abandoned that project, that makes the dignity of humanity fragile and in some cases even what it means to be human disappearing. What remains is just role playing. This is why Ben Carson in my view is just a illustration of one of the manifestations of the crisis of modernity. This sounds somewhat pessimistic. But frankly much of what happens in our world today is like that.

Samuel

 

On Mon, Sep 28, 2015 at 10:41 AM, Anunoby, Ogugua <AnunobyO@lincolnu.edu> wrote:

Is there anyone who knows anyone, especially an African-American, who does not agree that "being a member of a minority race does'nt mean being a minority achiever"? His credentials suggest that he  is a very educated intelligent man. His religion and Christian denomination should therefore not excuse the absurd and divisive statements he continues to make on important issues of public interest and the arrogance and disdain with which he expresses them.

When I think about him sometimes, I am reminded of the late Sir Bobby Robson, a former England Football (soccer) manager. He said the Argentine former professional footballer, Maradona, was a very gifted man but all his gifts seem to be in his left foot. Is this man's brilliance in medicine mostly? I wonder?

 

oa

From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com [mailto:usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com]
Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2015 2:57 AM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Dr. Ben Carson on the race issue in the US

 

At the risk of defending Ben Carson, let me say I don't think he is oblivious of the plight of black people. His first book - Gifted Hands - is an autobiography of a black kid who grew up in an impoverished black neighbourhood. There must be something else that explains why he is saying unacceptable things: postracial politics of success?

 

"being a member of a minority race doesn't mean being a minority achiever." 
― Ben Carson, Gifted Hands 20th Anniversary Edition: The Ben Carson Story

 

As for the conservatism, an explanation is readily available. He is a Seventh-day Adventist (SDAs). Although there are liberal SDAs, the foundation of adventism is pretty much conservative as far as issues of sexuality and abortion are concerned. He is indeed caught up in an ideological dilemma - no wonder SDAsm and politics tend not to mix.

 

"Adventist Church in North America Issues Statement on Ben Carson's U.S. Presidential Bid" - http://www.adventistreview.org/church-news/story2602-adventist-church-in-north-america-issues-statement-on-ben-carsons-u.s.-presidential-bid

 

---

From: kenneth harrow <harrow@msu.edu>
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2015 3:52 PM
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Dr. Ben Carson on the race issue in the US

 

this is the historic low point for the political thermometer of this nation. we are more conservative, extreme conservative, xenophobic, right-wing, and even neofascist, than any time in my memory.
that candidates like carson and trump are leading the pack, given their views, their hatred of foreigners or the poor, is unbelievable.
thanks for providing the quote that just confirms my pessimism.
ken

On 9/25/15 1:07 PM, Anunoby, Ogugua wrote:

Ben Carson has said worse.

According to The Washington Times (10/11/13), Carson said that Obamacare is "the worst thing that has happened in this nation since slavery…" in that year's Conservative Political Action Conference in Washington. Imagine that from not an African-American, but a trained medical doctor to a blood thirsty ideology driven audience. Did Carson say who blacks are happy with and grateful to "for what they were given" Does he know that Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. and many others on all sides lived? Is knowledge of history his problem? I wonder.

Specific audience targeted hyperbolic statements might just be his stock in trade. Everyone must make up their minds about whether or not he believes them.

 

oa

From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com [mailto:usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of kenneth harrow
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2015 10:12 AM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Dr. Ben Carson on the race issue in the US

 

he really said this? amazing. no wonder white conservatives like him.

On 9/25/15 6:08 AM, Cornelius Hamelberg wrote:

It's outrageous that a Black man could see  and if he wasn't a brain surgeon you'd think that he had a screw or two loose, up there. And this man wants to be elected president of the United States?

"Before Obama, people barely noticed skin color; that goes back 150 years. Blacks were happy and grateful for what we were given."  (Benjamin Carson)

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--   kenneth w. harrow   faculty excellence advocate  professor of english  michigan state university  department of english  619 red cedar road  room C-614 wells hall  east lansing, mi 48824  ph. 517 803 8839  harrow@msu.edu