On Monday, January 28, 2019 at 3:30:58 PM UTC-6, Kenneth Harrow wrote:
i agree that race designations are invented. they also reflect the values of the times when the
term becomes acceptable/normalized use. the interesting thing is that some words are freighted with racist/negative values more than others. my objection to "caucasian" is that it carries the ugly, particularly offensive views of the racist who invented the term more than "white." the offense i am referring to is to non-whites, not to whites, whose views on what they are called doesn't really matter since it is they who are basically normalizing the terms, when they are majoritarian. in africa, where i've lived (francophone countries), terms like europeen and white were synonymous; metis was common, and used as "coloured" was/is used in s africa, and was distinct from the term noir ou africain.
black and white convey meaning in the u.s. which is not the same outside the u.s.
when the social status of black people--african american people--in the u.s. changed, from 1950 on, we went through a series of changes in what became normalized. the social changes drove the name changes, and rapidly. the same happened for hispanic people. white dominance somehow meant it was more cultured or educated to say caucasian than white. the history was lost. but we don't have to accept the normalized terms if they bother us, and there is good reason to dump an offensive name. for many people gypsy is unacceptable, so now they say "roma," even if the roma aren't crazy about it. same for other terms, like pygmy or san, for instance. san is ironic, since it is the "polite" term for "bushman," and yet is also considered pejorative.
i don't want to be nitpicking; just opposing racist terminology when possible. i read a great article on race identity terms in somalia, and there the terms used to identify people were clan names, not light or dark. we can resist light dark designations to the extant possible as an effort to resist racist speech when possible.
ken
kenneth harrow
professor emeritus
dept of english
michigan state university
517 803-8839
From: usaafric...@googlegroups.com <usaafric...@googlegroups.com > on behalf of Moses Ebe Ochonu <meoc...@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2019 9:32:57 AM
To: USAAfricaDialogue
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - The Attitudes of People of African Descent, Particularly African-Americans , to Caucasians in African Spiritualities : History and its InterpretationWhen it comes to race all our terminologies and registers are imprecise, often loaded with inherited and/or learned taxonomies that do not speak to the complexity of race as a lived quotidian experience and as an ever-evolving designator of physical attributes. The modern racial notion of black-white is the biggest fallacy of all, as it is neither accurate as a descriptor of skin color nor as a marker of something deeper. It is a complete invention, the biggest exemplar of the popular saying that race is a social construct. Any terminology we settle on has baggage and is thus provisional and only works for analytical convenience in a particular discursive context.
--On Mon, Jan 28, 2019 at 7:41 AM Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju <toyin....@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks, Ken.
Please forgive my late response.
My problem is that I see the term "White", as both biologically non-factual as well as an effort to create an artificial distinction between black and white in terms of race.
I am not aware of anyone with white skin, but black skinned people do exist, while the colour black is often freighted with negative meanings in English while 'white' is often associated with positive values.
I really want to avoid perpetuating one racist terminology while trying to avoid another but I dont know yet how to go about it.
Toyin
--On Sat, 26 Jan 2019 at 23:57, Victor Okafor <vok...@emich.edu> wrote:
--The fact that the term "Caucasian" may or may not be prevalently used within the fold of African Studies, does not necessarily validate it as either a culturally or racially realistic label or concept. Like "Caucasian," there are lots of artificial "academic" and "politically correct" labels and concepts that have been adopted and applied within certain academic circles--across the disciplines--without being interrogated. I guess, it all boils down to: "yes, we have always done it this way," or it's simply accepted as an inherited wisdom of the ancestors!
On Sat, Jan 26, 2019 at 5:24 PM Toyin Falola <toyin...@austin.utexas.edu> wrote:
Ken:
What do you get when you throw in Arabs, for instance. They are not whites, they are not blacks, which is why some folks use the generic "caucasian" without its 19th century origins. I have seen its use a lot in African Studies.
TF
Toyin Falola
Department of History
The University of Texas at Austin
104 Inner Campus Drive
Austin, TX 78712-0220
USA
512 475 7224
512 475 7222 (fax)
http://groups.google.com/
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From: dialogue <usaafric...@
googlegroups.com > on behalf of "Harrow, Kenneth" <har...@msu.edu>
Reply-To: dialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com >
Date: Saturday, January 26, 2019 at 4:21 PM
To: dialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com >, Yoruba Affairs <yoruba...@googlegroups.com >
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - The Attitudes of People of African Descent, Particularly African-Americans , to Caucasians in African Spiritualities : History and its Interpretation
i may be the only one to be bothered by the term "caucasian," but here goes again. The term was created by a horrible racist Gobineau who divided races into higher and lower in the mid-19th century. he thought whites got their origins in the Caucasus mountains--no doubt as far from the global south as possible. i see no reason to perpetuate his term, something the white nationalist like nazis no doubt would have approved of. i's just say whites. i can't imagine a good reason to use caucasians, but i know why people do so. it sounds fancier, and we often avoid the directness of terms like white and black. in this case the directness seems more honest a term: it is not a "real" descriptor, but rather a signifier, without the racist baggage of caucasian. i find black and white signifiers the most neutral of terms, unless the geographical specificity of African is desired (as in African American).
ken
kenneth harrow
professor emeritus
dept of english
michigan state university
517 803-8839
From: usaafric...@
googlegroups.com <usaafric...@googlegroups.com > on behalf of Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju <toyin....@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2019 11:11:49 PM
To: usaafricadialogue; Yoruba Affairs
Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - The Attitudes of People of African Descent, Particularly African-Americans , to Caucasians in African Spiritualities : History and its Interpretation
The Attitudes of People of African Descent, Particularly African-Americans
, to Caucasians in African Spiritualities
History and its Interpretation
Ifa Studies Group Journal
Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju
Comparative Cognitive Processes and Systems
"Exploring Every Corner of the Cosmos in Search of Knowledge"
I have been following the responses of people of African descent, largely African-Americans, to the presence of Caucasians in African spiritualities on the Ifa Studies Group, a Facebook community celebrating the Yoruba origin Ifa system of knowledge and divination, which has spread into the Americas and beyond.
I hereby share here a recent intervention by myself, the group's administrator, and responses to that intervention.
Embrace Racial Unity, Not Division
I have turned off comments on the post by Jean Philippe Mudaheranwa wondering why African-Americans and Cubans could be so insistent on race in Ifa even though Ifa does not mention races or pigmentation, on account of the vitriol the post has continued to inspire even after I pleaded for understanding on all sides.
Some of the most important work in Ifa, Orisa and other African spiritualities and cultures is done by Caucasians.
The immense suffering undergone by Diaspora Africans must be recognized.
At the same time, however, we must appreciate the contributions of all peoples to African cultures so as to move the world beyond fixations on pain and hate.
Images below:
Photograph of the great William Russel Bascom and of pioneering books by him on Ifa
Comments
Tierney Hamilton I understand
Samantha Rucker I'm curious about this one thing... I see you fighting to include white people and to protect and establish a name for them in Ifa, which is typically a practice of those within the African diaspora as we were trained to care for and protect white people through white male domination. I want to ask you, have you received this same treatment from white cultures? I imagine a response similar to sharing and spreading love to people and/or something to the effect of we are all brothers and sisters... etc. I have a difficult time moving away from the way people of color have been trained to go to white aid and to be such a strong advocate that we tend to abandon those who look like us through the process, creating excuses for and protection to those who benefit from harming us. People are people yes, however due to the constructs of society, I have a hard time believing you haven't been influenced by these practices even with all of the initiations you may have had and ascension. Something imperative is being ignored here, heavily ignored. It is the support those within the African Diaspora need. We all need to unite and find value in each other and ourselves and allowing space for this without stating... well what about what this white person did?
Dade Wade I don't understand you sir...stop admonishing the victims (Africans) to embrace racial unity. That is naive because the oppresors have never embrace that. You are either being naïve or used...or rather selfdeceived or blatantly ingnorant. Did you know how Africans are being treated in the west? Did you know how many of our brothers and sisters who died in the sea as a result of European policies that doesn't see african lives as sacred? One British official even said on TV that those at risk on the sea shouldn't be rescued. All these people coming to study your culture are intelligence from their countries just like missionaries came in those days with the bible only to decipher your preparedness and way of thinking...they came to study you and with that could predict your actions even decades before you could even dream of it. Don't be FOOLISH please ...
Isoke Efia Edwards This is insanity....so there is no safe space for African people to commune and learn about our culture, our rituals, our birthrite without having white people forced down our throats. Why must they be included in everything we do ? I dont want to learn about Ifa from a white person PERIOD. Where are all thegreat black scholars ? why would I trust the sons and daughters of my enemy to teach me ? This is utter foolishness.
Akanke Tyra Washington Isoke Efia Edwards Ola Abimbola writes on Ifa and has a whole online training program Ifa.university
Jean Philippe Mudaheranwa everyone should have the right to learn what he wants, every human is a free soul,
Isoke Efia Edwards Jean Philippe Mudaheranwa I dont care about white people. I dont care what they think about me . I dont expect nothing from white people. I dont look to them for any kind of validation. I wish they would stay out of African people business. I dont care to procreate, socialize or have any kind of exchange with them. My concern is African people first and foremost. When my people have been given a chance to heal and commune uninterrupted. When we have a chance to come into the fullness of ourselves without the interjection of white people. When my people across the diaspora are able to unite and thrive then and maybe then will I care to entertain white people and even then I dont trust them as far as I can throw them.
Jean Philippe Mudaheranwa Isoke Efia Edwards then why dont you go back to africa then? it would help you to do all what u have mentionned instead of staying there
--
Sincerely,
Victor O. Okafor, Ph.D.Professor and HeadDepartment of Africology and African American StudiesEastern Michigan UniversityEmail: vok...@emich.edu
Tel: 734.487.9594
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