On Tuesday 30 January 2024, Oluwatoyin Adepoju <ovdepoju@gmail.com> wrote:
What are the principles?Has Israel not negotiated with Hamas for a hostage and prisoner swap?ThanksToyin--On Tue, Jan 30, 2024, 10:08 AM Chidi Anthony Opara, FIIM, CDOA <chidi.opara@gmail.com> wrote:Oluwatoyin,The tenets of negotiation do not recognize the principles Hamas and other Arab terror groups espouse.-CAO.To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/
On Tuesday 30 January 2024, Oluwatoyin Adepoju <ovdepoju@gmail.com> wrote:How will you eliminate Hamas terrorism as long as you continue to occupy Palestinian land and brutalize Palestinians?Was Hamas not created to combat that colonization and oppression?Is it not more realistic to enter into negotiations with Hamas and the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank to reach terms equally agreeable to both sides?It is this recognition and negotiation with the only military group fighting Israeli colonization and oppression that Israel and its allies seem to want to avoid while they pulverize the Palestinians at will.ThanksToyinOn Tue, Jan 30, 2024, 7:51 AM Chidi Anthony Opara, FIIM, CDOA <chidi.opara@gmail.com> wrote:"One of the issues debated about the foundation of israel was whether european jews should have been allowed to migrate to palestine. I wonder how chidi, toyin, cornelius think about this?"-KenWhy not?Nations' citizenship should not be based on race.By the way, I do not share Netanyahu's opinion on the two-state solution.There should be a Palestine state existing side by side with the State of Israel as soon as the menace of terrorism as represented by Hamas, etc is completely eliminated.-CAO.
On Tuesday 30 January 2024, cornelius...@gmail.com <corneliushamelberg@gmail.com> wrote:I'm sure that " The Curse of Ham" notwithstanding, God, is not a racist.
If Ken wants to start a serious discussion on that topic he had better kick-start it with some of his own precious opinions for us to savour. I'm looking forward to the discussion. My understanding is that someone who is born a Jew does not have to be religious, and that for the race and colour fixated it's all about 1.5 of Solomon's Shir Hashirim - Song of Songs 👍 in which Solomon boasts,
"I am black but comely, O daughters of Jerusalem! Like the tents of Kedar, like the curtains of Solomon."
Ages ago I read Ricardo Gordon's The Colors of Jews
"See the white man sailing his ship up on the sea,
Watch the white man shackle the black man to a tree.
To the invader go the fruits of war,
He misses home and his boots are sore.
He has not got no roots no more"´(Rock 'n' Roll Is Music Now
Cornelius was last in Sierra Leone, and only for ten days, the 20th - 30th April 1970 and then took the plane back to join his wife who was waiting for him @ the Black Star Nation, Accra, Ghana: https://www.youtube.com/@
Aristosband/videos - at which time I had no idea where Sweden was on the world map, but knew a bit about Gustavus Adolphus and though that the Volvo Amazon was a fairly good car but not on par with the Mercedes Benz. In my early days in Stockholm, I noticed that African immigrants identified their women by car brands.," My old Volvo" which sounded a bit like " vulva"( Indian speakers say "wolwo"), "my new Saab", like a Ford Mustang, no discrimination, my Rolls-Royce Lady, great shock absorbers, Taj Mahal boasting that he's " built for comfort", happy that" big legged mamas are back in style again "In the meantime, Apartheid was empowered in South Africa and threatening all mankind in Rhodesia, Angola, Mozambique, and Namibia, whilst Israel was walking hand in hand and side by side with Apartheid South Africa. Israel sent a low-grade delegation to Madiba's Funeral.
Instead of asking the Black Zionists, the contemporary comrades of the Back-to-Africa movement and the 21st-century disciples of Marcus Garvey of the Black Star Line fame making aliyah to Africa, Ken is wondering what "chidi, toyin, cornelius think about this" and I'm sure that he also wants to know how we, he, she, they feel about this. The fact is, he who feels it knows.
A whole lotta people get confused when they hear Rasta and Reggae man going on and on about Zion and Babylon, and the organisation to which Bob Marley belonged under the leadership of their Prophet Gad - the twelve tribes of Israel - to which I belonged in 1985 - assigned the tribe of Judah the tribe that people born between June 22 and July 22. are said to belong to…
Chidi and Oluwatoyin's feet are firmly planted in the soil of Mother Africa. I say that guradeluý about Chidi bearing in mind Joseph Brodsky being asked about his roots and protesting that he was not a tree…
Over to Chidi and Oluwatoyin, and, hopefully, Baba Kadiri who usually puts things straight and takes no prisoners.
On Monday 29 January 2024 at 21:40:02 UTC+1 Harrow, Kenneth wrote:One of the issues debated about the foundation of israel was whether european jews should have been allowed to migrate to palestine. I wonder how chidi, toyin, cornelius think about this?Ken
Kenneth HarrowEmeritus Professor of English, Michigan State UniversityHarrow@msu/edu
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From: usaafric...@googlegroups.com <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of cornelius...@gmail.com <cornelius...@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2024 1:53:31 PM
To: USA Africa Dialogue Series <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - South Africa Hails 'Decisive Victory' For International Law At UN CourtDear, most amazing Oluwatoyin,
Kudos, and much respect.
That was a sharp, succinct, closely argued, honest, and in my view a perfect response from you.
It deserves to occupy a column in the Palestine Chronicle , to be featured as an opinion piece in Al Jazeera or as an honest broker in any of the non-partisan media.
As for Chidi, he's behind the times, still standing still and treading water (shedding waterfalls of tears) at the ad misericordiam default position of the secular zionists - Hitler did it to the Jews, so - God bless Chaim Weizmann and his backers who towards the end of the first world war were able to prevail over Balfour to issue The Balfour Declaration to give that which did not belong to him, not a piece of Uganda ( the pearl of Africa) which had been first proposed and was apparently congenial enough to Herzl and his secular Zionists, but a piece of Palestine which was still a province of Syria, in the not yet defunct Ottoman Empire over which - like the vultures they were, the greedy, predatory colonial Brits/ Britishers, and the equally hungry and predatory French were successfully extending their tentacles.
Does Chidi think that it was the Palestinians that perpetrated the Nazi Holocaust?
Or that it is the Nazis that should be held responsible for the Nakba ?
Is Chidi aware that Israel has now escalated their genocidal operations in Gaza, on all fronts as if the ICJ has given them the green light to do so whilst Biden & Co continue to look the other way?
It looks like Chidi would like to go back to the Old Testament affidavit version about Joshua's conquest of the seven nations of Canaan. // The Tanakh: Joshua's conquest of the seven nations of Canaan.
I daresay Chidi the pseudo-Israelite Christian missionary goy or guy needs to take this course designed by Sam Keen: "How to love your enemies and hate your friends", it's available on pages 62 -66 of To a dancing God - by Sam Keen, published way back in 1970. It's amazing how having zapped through that book, circa 1973, I could have regressed to taking fundamentalist pastor Samuel, even half-seriously…
Is this just another rumour, some more smoke without fire, or is it going to be fact:
Israel Is Building A $55 BILLION Canal Through Gaza!
This song was about Nixon, post-Watergate, but it could as well have been about Netanyahu
"Sing a song for the wrong
and the wicked and the strong
and the sick, as thick as thieves…
He seems to tell us lies
and still we will believe him,
then together he will lead us
into darkness, my friends…
Well, it ain't nobody's fault but our own,
still, at least we might could show the good sense
To know when we've been wrong, and it's already taken too long.
So we bring it to a stop then we take it from the top,
we let it settle on down softly like your gently falling snow
or let it tumble down and topple like the temple long ago…"
Ps: Oluwatoyin, I also had an uncle who I addressed as Uncle Olu: Samuel Beccles-Davies, his full name, Samuel Olu Beccles-Davies, he was the Chief Justice of Sierra Leone,at the time, a man of unimpeachable integrity, he lived in his own house, not in any official quarters, - he is the first person I called when my mother passed away in London on the 6th of January, 1998 - there were Nigerian soldiers in his house , when I called . Why? I asked him." They are looking for the rascal", he replied mysteriously. The rascal? " Yes, Johnny Paul Koroma ", he clarified - that's the man I believe he had recently sworn in. Do you know where he is ?, I asked. " It's OK, we can talk," said he, " I think that the rascal is up in the hills''
On Monday 29 January 2024 at 10:58:34 UTC+1 Oluwatoyin Adepoju wrote:
Its s creation of Western political initiative.
Who is the head of the court?
A US citizen and one who has been part of US govt.
What has been the percentage of citizens of various countries heading the court?
A sincere question, sunce I don't know.
Where do the funds of the court largely come from?
Another sincere question.
The general orientation provided by the global dominance of Western leadership is also a factor.
Would the ICJ want to embarrass its primary owners, yes, owners, by going radically against them?
Hence, they have simply repeated the pius nonsense coming from the US, only added some requirements to be delivered in one month, by which time Israel would have continued in its daily bombardment and dehumanization of Palestinians, making further progress in doing to them what was done to Jews by the Romans when they dispersed them after destroying the temple, if I have the history right.
The West is largely in charge of the global institutions they created and sited in their own countries, ICJ, World Court, World Bank, UN etc.
The location of these institutions carries great symbolic, economic and leverage value. Its not inconsequential, as you claim.
Their location represents their significance as indices of a world order created by the West and largely in the interests of the West.
Moving forward, these world bodies should be situated on different continents, instead of the current concentration in Europe and the US.
All countries should also have equal votes as to who leads them.
Until the world wrests control of these bodies from the US and Europe, such bodies with potential power to deliver justice equitably will not deliver such justice.
We are faced with an emergency of historic proportions, and the best the court has been able to do is to tell the genocidists "We are not saying you should stop what you are doing. All we are saying is that you should not do what you are said to be doing and present evidence that you are complying".
Looks like nonsense to me.
The court is being saluted for giving credence to the presentations by SA of how Israel is prosecuting the war.
So?
Am I to salute you for agreeing thr sun is shining when its broad daylight?
Israel has got the message,the same message the US has been pushing.
"We are okay with your doing whatever you want to do to gain total advantage in Gaza, including destroying the place and killing as many people as possible to break them in the name of defeating Hamas but do it before people's outcries make us look too bad".
The real agents of historic lessons here are Hamas and the Palestinians.
In spite of the epic bombardment, Hamas are still holding the hostages and their leadership are neither surrendering nor trying to flee Gaza.
How are they doing it?
Anyone who has followed the history of this conflict will not be surprised by the totalistic savagery of the Israeli response.
I wonder how well Hamas calculated the pros and cons of Oct 7 and if they would do it again if they could go back in time.
As it is, just as the Nazis conceived and carried out what they called The Fimal Solution to the Jewish Problem, Israel is carrying out what they hope is The Final Solution to the Palestinian Problem, only things are not going as predictably for Israel as they did for the Nazis.
The Jews were completely helpless as entire populations were dehumanized and almost completely destroyed.
But the Palestinians are not equally helpless, as represented by Hamas, who are able to respond savagely to Israeli savagery, though at a very much smaller scale, even though Hamas has only the smallest fraction of Israeli capability, and even though the US and other Western countries are ceaselessly supplying the most destructive weapons to Israel to facilitate the decimation of the Palestinians in defending the colonialist Israeli vision, Hamas has got no supplies of anti-aircraft weapons, of jamming mechanisms to overwhelm Israel's iron dome anti -rocket network, of rockets capable of devastating Israeli cities, laying waste to Tel Aviv and other Israeli urban centres as Israel is doing to Northern and Southern Gaza, but the desperate resilience of the average Palestinians and the suicidal tenacity of Hamas, demonstrate what the US and Israel's European allies are compelled to reirerate, Israel's lasting security can only be through an equitably founded and justly structured Palestinian state.
The mistake they are making is in sustaining the claim that eliminating Hamas is the route to Israeli security.
Since Israel was able to make the leaders of its terrorist co-founders its prime ministers, such as Menachem Begin of Irgun, and others, Israel and its allies need to recognize that Hamas has earned its own place as a nation founder they cant discount.
A calculus of savagery in which all partners in the inequitably distributed inhumanity, Israel being the greater monster, must be given their due.
The Holocaust Traumatized Israelis and the Israeli Traumatized Palestinians.
Thanks
Toyin
On Mon, Jan 29, 2024, 12:01 AM Harrow, Kenneth <har...@msu.edu> wrote:
Toyin, what makes the icj western? Its location isn't a real factor. Wasn't the composition of the court equitable? I don't know, just asking.Ken
Kenneth HarrowEmeritus Professor of English, Michigan State UniversityHarrow@msu/edu
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From: usaafric...@googlegroups.com <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Oluwatoyin Adepoju <ovde...@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2024 4:51:14 PM
To: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - South Africa Hails 'Decisive Victory' For International Law At UN CourtThe ICJ is a Western created institution, on Western land.
The whole universe knows that Israel's claim to self defense is a most expansive one covering the decimation of Palestinian society as a perpetual deterrent.
The idea of a peace of equals between Israel and the Palestinians not on the table for Israel and her allies, specifically the US, UK and Germany
The UN has done its best but been hobbled by the US, the most powerful Western nation.
Did you expect the ICJ to do the reasonable thing to stop the ongoing slaughter?
Why would they?
We need a restructuring of these international institutions.
What has been achieved by SA is a symbolic victory, bringing to the open what has long been the case.
That Israel is a largely sick country, suffering from Holocaust Induced Trauma, HIT, in which descendants of the dehumanized become dehumanizers.
Thanks
Toyin
Dear Oluwatoyin,
Given that the ICJ is a competent international body with competent judges in whom we are supposed to repose some trust that they are more than capable of fulfilling their mission which is to dispense justice, could you please tell us why you "did not expect much from the ICJ"?
Here is Jeffrey Sachs' reaction to the ICJ judgement
Ray McGovern & Larry C. Johnson Interview: ICJ Ruling And Israel's LAST GASP
Other reactions to the ICJ ruling on genocide in Gaza
The whole world waited with various degrees of anxiety, in some spheres, perhaps, an increase in the blood pressure among some members of the war cabinet due to some doubts and some fears, both positive and negative, since some of those who wash their hands in the morning to dedicate all their works to Hashem, begin the day with the prayer Rayshis chochma yir-as Adonai ((The beginning of wisdom is the fear of Hashem ) - at least they're supposed to know that, whilst others waited for the ICJ judgement with other kinds of expectations, with hope, even confidence that the ICJ would decree an international warrant for the arrest of Netanyahu and declare a ceasefire that would be legally binding, with immediate effect.
I think that the Mullahs in Iran are the most realistic; they know that even if Mister Netanyahu believes that he is democratically elected and blessed with divine protection, UncleJoe's iron dome etc, he would never set foot in any territory that belongs to the Islamic Republic, speak less of him intending make a state visit and get some red carpet treatment when he knows full well that on his arrival at the Imam Khomeini International Airport, he would be taken into custody directly - as a hostage - and we will all be reading about the international crisis that he would have thereby created, in Tehran Times…
So far it looks like Hezbollah have been biding their time and the war is all set to expand along the axis of the Israel-Lebanon border. A good rule of thumb: Trust in the Lord but don't misunderestimate Mister Hitler…
On Sunday 28 January 2024 at 16:48:22 UTC+1 Oluwatoyin Adepoju wrote:
I did not expect much from the ICJ
Makes for depressing reading : Chris Hedges: It May be Genocide, But it Won't Be Stopped
--On Friday 26 January 2024 at 23:31:39 UTC+1 Harrow, Kenneth wrote:
Victor is right about this need for justice, and african states to stand up. But again, blinker just returning from angola where a major american deal is concluded…. The money runs the show there. Where does it now? Palestine, where it is blood.Ken
Kenneth HarrowEmeritus Professor of English, Michigan State UniversityHarrow@msu/edu
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From: 'Victor Okafor' via USA Africa Dialogue Series <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Friday, January 26, 2024 2:56:51 PM
To: usaafric...@googlegroups.com <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - South Africa Hails 'Decisive Victory' For International Law At UN Court--Mighty congratulations to South Africa and its political class, which demonstrably, have not forgotten their history of a prolonged struggle against institutionalized racism that was based on the doctrine of White Supremacy, which in its case was known as Apartheid. Here in the USA, a similar social system of institutionalized racism was known as Jim Crow. South Africa's direct, non-violent action of taking Israel to the World Court over the Palestinian tragedy demonstrates what a people, who are conscious of their history, can do to help others similarly in need. This is a case study of applied history. As the Great Dr. Martin Luther King, jr, put it, "Injustice anywhere, is a threat to justice everywhere." That history apparently gave the South African political elite an acute sensitivity to racial injustice, racial apartheid.
If I may add, there used to be a time when South Africa's northern big brother, Nigeria, also used to stand tall in the international arena, particularly during the heyday of the liberation struggles in Southern Africa, including its epicenters of then apartheid South Africa, Zimbabwe, Namidia, Angola, and Mozambique. As part of a compulsory exposure to a two-sequence course on decolonized African history, our university kids--across the board--should be made aware of that history of a time period in Nigeria's political evolution when it was a pride to be called a Nigerian on the international stage.
On Fri, Jan 26, 2024 at 12:25 PM Oluwatoyin Adepoju <ovde...@gmail.com> wrote:
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Sincerely,
Victor O. Okafor, Ph.D.Professor and HeadDepartment of Africology and African American StudiesEastern Michigan UniversityEmail: vok...@emich.edu
Tel: 734.487.9594Food for Thought:"The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress." -- Frederick Douglass
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Chidi Anthony Opara is a Poet, Professional Fellow of Institute Of Information Management Africa, MIT Chief Data Officer Ambassador, Registered Freight Forwarder and Editorial Adviser at News Updates.
More about him here: https://independent.academia.edu/ChidiAnthonyOpara
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